Bitcoin ETF's. Thoughts?

Comments

• Edmond

  November 15

  
  I have a healthy profit in FBTC, in the past 3 weeks. I trimmed positions earlier this week.
  
  IMO, bitcoin is not an 'investment'. Its a risk-on trading vehicle. There is no way I would hold this stuff if/when the markets turn risk-off.
  
  Other BTC etfs which generate income are BITO and MAXI. (not a recommendation, simply an FYI)
  
  
  
• hank

  November 15 edited November 15

  Yes. I think I own some Bitcoin through an etf “fund-of-etfs” (TRTY). It holds a couple momentum / trend following etfs - but those are a small part of its 16-17 etf stable. Best guess is bitcoin probably represents something like 0.05% of my portfolio. I’m “comfy” with that degree of exposure. I think a lot of markets have gone hyperbolic - and probably bitcoin among them. But I agree with Alan Greenspan who famously said it’s impossible to identify a bubble until after it has popped.
  
  Nothing against Bitcoin. Some pretty smart people own it. Not a big fan of Goldman. So I don’t put much stock in any calls they might make.
• majick

  November 15 edited November 15

  How's Bito ? Any opinions on it? Thanks.
• PopTart

  November 17

  Thanks for the comments!
• Crash

  November 18

  Well.
  Bitcoin and all cryptocurriencies are by definition subversive, unpatriotic. Undercutting the value of real, actual LEGAL TENDER. ---Charlie Munger. (R.I.P.)
  
  Where's the value? The product? The service provided? ---Warren Buffett.
• Edmond

  November 18

  Fiat currency and constant debasement is subversive and unpatriotic. When the organs of the state --- including the central bank operate with the explicit intent of constant erosion of legal tender, that is the reason BIT exists.
  
  If the state operated in a manner to ensure sound money, there would be no demand for crypto. We don't live in that world.
• Crash

  November 18

  Ostensibly, gov't central banks exist to maintain stability of the currency. Yes, central banks do prefer a bit of inflation, so that national debt can be repaid in "smaller" dollars or pounds sterling or whatever. And decision makers don't always get it right. That doesn't mean that we should forget about standards altogether.
• Observant1

  November 19 edited November 19

  I don't see a real need for bitcoin/cryptocurrency in most developed nations.
  Cryptocurrency is often used to obfuscate criminal activity or for speculation.
  If an "investor" wishes to speculate, they are free to do so but other speculative "investments" are available.
  Conversely, citizens of countries which have a history of hyperinflation (e.g., Argentina, Sudan, Zimbabawe) could really benefit from cryptocurrency usage.
• hank

  November 20 edited November 20

  Crash said:

  Ostensibly, gov't central banks exist to maintain stability of the currency. Yes, central banks do prefer a bit of inflation, so that national debt can be repaid in "smaller" dollars or pounds sterling or whatever. And decision makers don't always get it right. That doesn't mean that we should forget about standards altogether.

  I’ve never heard a home owner complain about when their home appreciates in nominal value. I suppose if it leads to higher property taxes, one might. But generally speaking we like it when the things we own go up in dollar value. And if you carry a mortgage on your home, your situation is a bit like that of the U.S. Treasury. Inflation allows you to repay your loan (ie pay for your home) in cheaper dollars. The issue isn’t all black, white or green which perhaps is what @Crash was inferring.
  
  
• Derf

  November 21

  I was going to start a new thread , but found this one & will add this link.
  
  https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fed-sell-70s-era-gold-212657357.html
  
  Good idea or not !?
  
  All replies appreciated.
• Crash

  November 21

  What might she have to gain? Repugnant Party...
• BenWP

  November 22

  A friend of mine tried to explain to me what bitcoin is, something along the lines of, « it’s just a currency. » He then told me he had made enough on his investment to buy his daughter a house. Then he said he hadn’t owned any bitcoin for some time. I guess he profited handsomely, making me envious, but unconvinced.
  
  I don’t understand all the science behind the tech companies my funds own, nor the medical advances that have led to investing profits for me, but I have faith that the science is sound and understandable to a reasonably intelligent person. I do not have the same faith in bitcoin nor in my intelligence to grasp why it’s a good investment. I side with those old timers and skeptics who have been persistent naysayers.
• Old_Joe

  November 22

  "I do not have [it] in my intelligence to grasp why it’s a good investment."
  
  I think that requires artificial intelligence.
• PRESSmUP

  November 22

  Tulip coins
• Crash

  November 22

  ya, hey?
• BenWP

  November 22

  @Old_Joe: good one! We’ll see if my tilt away from chips (SMHX) toward software (IVG) produces real or artificial gains. In the old days you could blame a real person (a broker) for suggesting a crappy stock; nowadays I can blame AI for my missteps. An artificial alibi seems to sneak more easily by my conscience than an honest appraisal of my follies.
• Old_Joe

  November 23

  @BenWP- Hell, for my whole life those who know me well have told me that my intelligence, if any, is artificial. My father used to say that if I had a brain I'd be dangerous.
• PopTart

  November 23

  Thanks again for the many comments, this board remains an excellent source of knowledge and opinions. I've yet to make up my mind about buying a few shares of IBIT but I'll continue to watch it for awhile.
  
  Happy Thanksgiving!
• sma3

  November 25

  There is an argument that anything that the government cannot produce more of effortlessly, even Tulips, is better than Fiat currencies.
  
  This presupposes you can get someone else to accept it as "money" and it is safe, not easily stolen and it will hold it's value.
  
  A friend's son had some thousand (s?) of Bitcoin on a fob in his safe deposit box, years ago.
  
  He may be a billionaire now, but I don't have enough knowledge of the technology to have any confidence I could liquidate it. He my.
  
  ETFs are easier to understand, but I do not see how to have any confidence that the value will be stable enough to manage. Gold fluctuates but lot's of Central Banks own lots of it and the value has been plotted for centuries
• BaluBalu

  December 11 edited December 11

  @yogibearbull,
  
  Only if you know the answer off hand -
  
  Are the Bitcoin ETP redemptions still only via cash? Just checking if the lack of in-kind redemptions changed since inception?
  
  How do the year end distributions from ETPs look like?
  
  I did not see any distribution projections (or actuals) for FBTC or IBIT or ETHA
  
  https://institutional.fidelity.com/app/literature/item/9900927.html
  
  https://www.ishares.com/us/literature/shareholder-letters/isharesandblackrocketfsdistributionschedule.pdf
  
  Thanks.
• sma3

  December 11

  If all IBIT has to do for redemptions is sell shares to market maker who then sells bitcoin, I dont think there would ever be any distributions.
  
  havent checked but has GLD ever had distribution?
• BaluBalu

  December 11 edited December 11

  I do not know how GLD is structured but it never had any cap gain distributions.
  
  It is a question of whether in-kind redemptions are allowed by the SEC. The original permission to create the bitcoin ETPs did not allow. Let us wait for YBB to reply as he likely follows the SEC developments in this space. I own these but I do not follow.
• yogibearbull

  December 11

  The SEC hasn't changed the cash creation/redemption for Bitcoin and Ether ETPs. So, these ETPs aren't as tax-efficient as other ETPs or ETFs. They are still in their first year and I haven't been checking their sponsor's plans for yearend distributions.
  
  As there have been mostly inflows so far, the issue may be moot now.
• BaluBalu

  December 12

  Thanks
• BaluBalu

  December 12

  Fart coin is now worth more than 38% of all US public equities. I think it debuted in late October and has grown more than a 1,000% in market price since. Trading volume nearly 100M. Market Cap is only $600M.
  
  
• yogibearbull

  December 12

  Hawk (Tuah) token debuted last week. It rose spectacularly and crashed on the same day. Now people are talking about suing the clueless 22-yr old country girl Haliey Welch (Hawk Tuah girl) from Tennessee. I also don't believe those people who say they lost their life savings in this scam.
• BaluBalu

  December 12

  What is their claim? That she misrepresented its fundamentals?
• rforno

  December 12

  Anyone playing cryptocurrency outside of the big ones that seem to be 'respectable' (eg, BTC, ETH) truly is throwing their money away unless it's for a quick in-out trade akin to a pump-and-dump scheme.
  
• davidrmoran

  December 12

  I accidentally snorted out whisky at reading half of these ... I was only trying to find the quote that no one has yet devised, concocted, imagined, or plausibly advocated a use case
  
  https://www.cryptoaltruism.org/blog/15-quotes-about-the-potential-of-blockchain-and-crypto
  
  efficiency! math!
  
  andreesen sounds like he is talking about full-faith / -credit currency
• BaluBalu

  December 12

  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-12-13/australian-pension-fund-reveals-rare-wager-on-bitcoin-btc-futures