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Auto insurance

I use my car so little, I am thinking of discontinuing Uninsured Motorist bodily injury. Any reason to keep it? Would not my health insurance (not Medicare) cover if I get hit by an uninsured?

The value of my car is also a rounding error. I am also thinking of removing Collision and Comprehensive. If my car gets hit, I will not buy another car. I have access to another car if I ever need.

With the above changes, I can bring my insurance to $300 a year.

Any thoughts?

Comments

  • Sounds right to me.

    @msf- What say you?
  • Uninsured motorist bodily injury covers not only the driver (covered by Medicare and presumably Medigap, else potential losses are unlimited) but also other passengers who might have high deductibles. It also covers pain and suffering. Whether these matter enough to you to be worth the cost is a personal decision.

    Note that I'm describing uninsured motorist coverage in Calif. It means different things in different states, especially in no fault states (Calif. is a fault state).

    My father used to tell me that after five years or so, I should drop collision and comprehensive. The car will have depreciated so much that it's not worth insuring - the insurance company may just "total" it. The OP's car is worth virtually nothing, so recovery under collision or comprehensive would also be next to nothing.

    OTOH, I don't follow my father's advice. I drive my car so little that I have to buy new tires (rubber dries out) before they need to be rotated. Little driving and proper maintenance mean my car still has significant value. Replacing it (not a concern of the OP) would be costly, as car prices have soared in the past few years.

    Finally, just because a car has about as much mileage as one driven by a little old lady doesn't mean it hasn't been stressed (tends to refute my thinking that this enhances car value).


  • edited January 2
    Thanks, @msf and @Old_Joe.

    Only today, before I wrote the OP, it occurred to me that I have been carrying collision deductible higher than the blue book value of my car, giving an incentive to the insurance company to declare the car totaled in case of an accident. Worse, if they report to the state DMV that the car is totaled, I may have to then fight with the DMV to keep the car on the road*. So, it is in my best interest to not pay the collision. My car is always inside the garage, needing comprehensive very remote.

    So, either I drop those ins coverages or just sell the car. With what I pay for tires, maintenance, and insurance, Uber likely is cheaper.

    I always carried high deductibles to lower premiums.

    Thanks again.

    *For totaled cars,

    Once repaired, the car must pass a state inspection.
    You must apply for a salvage or rebuilt title that identifies the car as having been a total loss.
    A salvage or rebuilt title will make insuring and eventually disposing of the vehicle tougher.
  • once the car is under 10k in value, i remove comprehensive. I always keep uninsured provisions in. your health insurance if it finds out its a car accident will want to know whose insurance should cover it.
  • edited January 3
    We have the option to discontinue the medical part of auto insurance in Michigan. Having a good health plan, I opt-out. Unfortunately, for my insurer this involves signing and mailing in a form every 6 months or you default back to the more expensive plan. The opt-out is somewhat hidden inside a 5-6 page document, extremely confusing to read through with several different options one may check off (most of which don’t apply to you). I made a paper copy of one before mailing it and simply pull that out every 6 months as a model rather then wading through it all over and over. Looks like a game to me to keep those w/o the reading skills or interest in the matter continuing to pay higher premium for insurance they don’t need or can’t afford.

    I have generally adhered to the advice @msf’s father related to him. 5 years (+ -) would seem a reasonable time to stop collision coverage. Maybe a bit longer with today’s more expensive to repair “computers on wheels.” With comprehensive coverage, however, ISTM you get quite a bit for a small price. Covers storm damage, glass breakage, stone chips from debris and striking a deer or other critter. I carry a $2500 collision deductible. Have considered going even higher for a bit greater savings. At some point it becomes a comfort issue, as most here could probably afford to replace a totaled vehicle.

    One element that gives me pause is that my insurer covers collision damage to rented vehicles up to the amount your own car is covered. I had a rental totaled in Florida 15 years ago by a distracted commercial truck driver who took out 3 passenger vehicles that were waiting at a red light. My insurer picked up the entire bill. Did not have the expensive insurance from the rental car company. So, I’d not want to drop collision unless prepared to pay for coverage at the rental counter.

    Added - If you finance your vehicle all bets are off. Lenders often mandate full collision / comprehensive coverage. That’s one good reason not to finance a vehicle. I’ve never leased, but would imagine terms are similar when it comes to insurance.
  • I understand it's about minimizing Insurance Cost $/Yr but
    What about Umbrella Insurance on top of Auto Liability coverage ?
    If due to Old age or any unknown reason you or spouse hit someone else?
    Lawsuit are always in Million$+,going nearby or going to say grocery store/errand or within 10 mile radius from home ? Don't need It ?
    Thanks.
    Majick
  • majick said:

    I understand it's about minimizing Insurance Cost $/Yr but
    What about Umbrella Insurance on top of Auto Liability coverage ?
    If due to Old age or any unknown reason you or spouse hit someone else?
    Lawsuit are always in Million$+,going nearby or going to say grocery store/errand or within 10 mile radius from home ? Don't need It ?
    Thanks.
    Majick

    I was wondering too. We had to max the autos to get an umbrella policy.
  • Most insurers require auto + home combo before they will consider an umbrella policy. For various reasons, our auto & home insurance are with separate insurers.
  • edited January 5
    @WABAC, That is the first line in the declarations page. I do not think you can have car insurance in CA without that liability to third party insurance. It would not make sense to self insure that part.

    I removed both collision and comprehensive. I kept uninsured motorist coverage as I was not sure if ACA health insurance includes/ excludes coverage for a car accident. I buy health insurance on the exchange (at full price) so I can discontinue if I travel overseas and also I presume there may be fewer shenanigans in the policy if it is sold on the exchange.

    I had a windshield chip already. I bought a cheap kit at auto parts shop to fix it. Now, I can not even tell where the chip was.

    We as a nation overdo everything and that includes over insurance.
  • Lawsuit are always in Million$+

    A plaintiff can sue for almost any dollar amount, but if it doesn't bear some relationship to the harm done, it's a meaningless number. As far as actual awards go, though multimillion dollar settlements get the headlines, they are few and far between.
    https://www.gatewayinjurylaw.com/blog/average-personal-injury-settlement/#car

    Nevertheless they can happen so I do have an umbrella policy.

    It's difficult but not impossible to get umbrella insurance without getting it from the same insurer that covers your home and/or car(s). Even if you get it through your current insurer, they may use a third party company. It's often better (read cheaper) if you can get a bundled plan where the umbrella part isn't outsourced.

    A few months ago, I got quotes from RLI (both standalone and through another insurer). All their polices over $1M would have cost me significantly more than $1K. Of course each person's situation is different. You can check out their rates yourself.
    https://www.rlicorp.com/personal-insurance/personal-umbrella-insurance

    within 10 mile radius from home ?
    Supposedly, most accidents occur within 10 miles of home. Here's one old (2015) study:
    Among 3,280 patients (2005-2010), 88% were injured within 10 miles of home (median 0.2 miles). There were significant differences in distance between residence and location of injury based on mechanism of injury, age and hospital disposition. The large majority of injuries involving children, the elderly, pedestrians, cyclists, falls, and assaults occurred less than 10 miles from the patient's residence. Only 77% of MVC [motor vehicle collisions] occurred within 10 miles of the patient's residence.
    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4375775/
  • We had to max the autos to get an umbrella policy.

    My experience is that they typically require 250/500 or 300/300. It doesn't matter whether your auto insurer offers higher limits or not, you just buy the min required. Admittedly, that amount is usually near the max even if it isn't quite there.
  • Umbrella insurance is a must for someones piece of mind who has extensive assets tp protect. However be aware that each company has its own way of paying out this the umbrella amount in the case of a suit. For example if you have 300k auto liability and a 1 mill umbrella with Erie insurance the max they will pay out is 1 miil. Another company could pay out 1.3 mill. This was not readily provided in the umbrella info from the company. So do your due diligence, as I did, to know exactly what the potential payout would be with each company, as with the cost of this insurance
  • edited January 5
    ”Two Roads Diverged …”

    ISTM the initial post dealt with dropping the medical and / or collision insurance (damage to your own vehicle). Liability (causing injury to others) is a separate type of coverage, mandated in Michigan, and probably most other states.

    I added balloon coverage sometime in the past 10 months based on prior discussion here. Yes. It did require upping my liability coverage to the maximum my company allows. No. It did not affect my existing opt-out of the additional medical coverage. Nor did it affect my ability to maintain a relatively high deductible on the collision coverage. As far as I know I could drop collision / comprehensive completely and still carry the balloon policy.

    (All of this is with a local agency that maintains a brick & motar office.)
  • @fundly : As for your post above, did you use ERIE or go else where? Did you have to pay more for the extra $300K+ million pay out ? Thanks, Derf

    @BaluBalu; Was the chip in the window located low? Let us know how the fix works out?
    Thanks, Derf
  • edited January 6
    majick said:

    I understand it's about minimizing Insurance Cost $/Yr but
    What about Umbrella Insurance on top of Auto Liability coverage ?
    If due to Old age or any unknown reason you or spouse hit someone else?
    Lawsuit are always in Million$+,going nearby or going to say grocery store/errand or within 10 mile radius from home ? Don't need It ?
    Thanks.
    Majick

    Well. I got hit by a car a year ago, not horribly horribly serious yet well worth avoiding, but fractured my pelvis and was laid up for close to a month (meaning awful, awful leg muscle loss ffs). $190k total healthcare costs paid for MC and the various insurances. This all in a no-fault state.

    The driver's Commerce liability / injury policy is good for $100k, and that paper check less 30-33% for the PI atty comes to me next week. My own AmFam (Costco) policy (underinsured yada) is good for $250k less his $100k, so $150k less the PI cut is said to be in the works. (No Medicare lien yet, though always a possibility.) My umbrella was not involved, possibly a foolish choice in checking boxes.

    I mention this adventure because even in a 'low-value' case, much less one with greater injury and loss or death, these coverages help prevent the liable party from being gone after bigtime. As I understand it. This driver (elderly, meaning my age; clean record) has property and a summer place to boot, all jointly held, but my attorney told me in different / worse circumstances it might well be worth chasing, and different PI firms take different tacks. (Mine is classy and genteel, and my atty said she spends a lot of her time sadly explaining to families that, e.g., medical shit happens, or the other driver is from out of state and seriously underinsured and has no assets, and so on.)

    So: for self-protection and especially if one has a sense of ethics as to liability, it is probably smart to get as hefty injury coverages as is feasible. I'm kind of waving my hands here and at the limit of my insurance details knowledge; I hope others more informed weigh in.

    Everyone loves no-fault even if it means your own company is giving you serious moneys because it's fast and efficient and the common alternative is endless litigation at all amount levels.

    [As for details some might ask, I was in a crosswalk (local hospital parking lot, no less) at dusk and he was slightly speeding and in physical distress to the ER (where I was also headed, having just dropped off my wife). He did brake but I was thrown like 12' or more. All on security video, eesh. I was treated and then sent downtown for screwbolts and more. I discovered the complete heavenliness of fentanyl. No wonder it's such a problem.

    [A year of quad and calf / ankle PT, raises and half-squats and lunges and whatnot, has not been fully restorative. This following tedious recovery from serious pelvis and nerve pains. I can now climb stairs normal foot over foot but need a railing, and certainly could not carry an infant or a bag of groceries; and my general footing and stability remain subpar. Supposedly it'll come by fall. My personal goal is to be able to shoot a normal free throw. Seems far off still.

    [For the criminal part of the story, the state prosecuting in my behalf, the driver's idiot lawyer rejected initial judge summer offer of probation (onerous in Mass. to an extent) and opted for jury trial. Which they lost on all counts in a record half-hour. I coulda been crawling drunk in the crosswalk and he woulda been liable and so found negligent. (Unless you jump out from behind a bush, in other words.) The lenient judge sentenced him to 2 more months of no driving (totaling a year) and I think 18mos' probation w weekly check-in. No fines, some court costs. The asst DA told me the driver's dealings with his insurance company and then with RMV, including coursework and retraining, will be not pleasant. Plus if you run a stop sign, much less get some worse citation, you can be incarcerated promptly.

    [It turns out the full guilt findings and speed of verdict actually sway the insurance companies on the civil action side, which I guess I get.]
  • edited January 6
    @Derf,
    I remember the chip was at eye level on the driver side. It was 5-10 years ago. The fix has held up. The kits are sold by all chain auto parts shops (Amazon might have it too). You have to use it before the chip becomes a spreading crack.

    @Davidrmoran, So sorry for what you went through. I hope you make full recovery. I will keep the uninsured motorist insurance. I keep both bodily injury liabilities at $300/600k.

  • @derf. I have home, auto .umbrella with ERIE at a very reasonable cost, after many comparisons. Umbrella is only sold in amount of millions only so there was no ability to buy an extra 300k. Of course you could add another million for an additional cost but I did not do this.
  • I tend to get as much mileage as I can out of my cars before I replace them. I now own a 15 year old car, and a 7 year old car--only Liability on the oldest but still have comprehensive on the "newest". I attempt to use Kelly Blue Book to monitor what my old cars value is now, and I have found that I am continuing comprehensive coverage longer than I use to. Uninsured Motorist Coverage is something that I pay particular attention to, when I decide on car insurance coverage renewal, and find that I have more discussions with my local insurance representative about my options there. My wife and I still do some extensive driving for our age, and so car insurance, including AAA coverage for break downs and towing, are particularly important to us, especially in our travels with our "newest" car.
  • @dtconroe Nothing wrong driving a 15 year old car in my mind. I had a 05 Toy that I sold in 23. Changed oil every 5K miles.

    @fundly Thanks for the reply. I also use ERIE.

    @BaluBalu : Thanks for the reply. My insurance has no charge to have someone come out & fix the chip. I heard it hit the window ,but couldn't see where it hit. Later I found a crack starting below the wipers & watched it crawl upward. Drove it that way until I sold it.
  • We live in no-fault MI, like @hank. Our youngest daughter, a med student in NC, had her 2016 low-mileage Sentra totaled by a pothead who was not listed as a driver on the AAA policy in the name of his domestic partner. I had advised our kid not to carry collision insurance due to the age and value of her car, maybe a mistake. The accident occurred 1/2 mile from both drivers’ domicile last December 4 and no one was injured. City police cited other driver for failure to yield, but made no effort to investigate the odor of MaryJane or the fumes in his car. When the accident was reported to Liberty Mutual, our auto and home insurer, the agent said LM had no role to play because of absence of collision coverage. The Sentra was towed to a towing company lot from which it was finally picked up last Friday, probably by Copart. AAA took until December 19 to tell us they would assume the responsibility of paying our daughter what her only worldly possession was worth after their client destroyed its front end. During one phone call, I was told things move slowly in NC, duh. As of today, the First Bank of Dad has yet to receive a deposit from either Copart or AAA.

    My efforts to help our daughter negotiate the purchase of a suitable replacement car when she was still in NC before Xmas came to naught. I talked with sleaze balls and bait-and-switch artists as well as salesMEN (he, him types) who treated their customer as if she were some « pretty little thing. » I even learned that Northerners are not so bad, although I had not solicited that information. We decided to buy in MI and had a totally pleasant experience in Dearborn where a plain-Jane, 11,000 mile, gray Hyundai certified Sonata had sat unbought because it lacked « bling. » The last thing a medical resident needs is bling, so it was a great match. The shakedown cruise from MI back to NC last Friday went swimmingly well, even thought there was snow. The Hyundai dealer had even put on a set of new M/S Kumhos, included in the purchase price, which reassured Dad. Some places treat their customers well, many do not. For those who are still with me, in Korean, « hyun » means modern, while « dai » (pronounced close to English « day ») can mean corporation. Hyundai also denotes « modernity, » in the general sense. The Land of the Morning Calm has come a long way!

    My sympathies to @davidrmoran. You a had a miserable experience. For some reason, I’m glad you are not using that Fentanyl any more, if only because your posts here would be very obscure were you under the influence. LOL.
  • edited January 6
    I guess then I was wasting money on collision and comprehensive for at least 10 yrs. I generally do not over insure but this escaped my attention.
  • @BenWP,

    Yeah, they yank you off fentanyl as soon as they can, alas, as it was bliss --- completely cloaking the system and thwarting/relaxing the shakes and chills and rotating pain from the big cortisol and adrenaline dump of getting hit and fracturing pelvis.
    I told one nurse I would go out to the parking lot and get hit again if I could stay on it.
    Anyway, they went to hydromorphone after a few hours, meaning by the time I was at downtown hospital.
    I got more (along with the great propofol) during surgery, but was unaware, so no fun. Good meds. Easy to see their abuse appeal.
  • In 2-3 years, I will get rid of a car due to auto insurance issue (just keep one) - not very much needed since I retired last year.
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