Solid-State Batteries For EVs

Observant1

Solid-state batteries provide extended range and much quicker charging speeds for EVs.
These batteries are also safer and more durable than current lithium-ion batteries.

"At the SNE Battery Day 2024 expo in South Korea, Samsung also unveiled that its pilot line to mass-produce fully solid-state batteries was fully operational. The first batteries produced went off to electric vehicle manufacturers, and Samsung stated they've received positive feedback. Samsung's solid-state batteries are proven to achieve a 600-mile range and charging times as short as nine minutes."

"Less than a month ago, Mercedes and Factorial unveiled a solid-state battery that can extend their electric car's range by up to 80 percent compared to the current lithium-ion batteries powering vehicles today. Factorial and Mercedes claim their solid-state battery has a total driving range exceeding 600 miles, reduces battery weight by 40 percent, and a 33 percent reduction in size."

"Like any new technology, however, solid-state batteries have high production costs which will limit the number of vehicles they power. More than likely, for the first few years at least, solid-state batteries will underpin the 'super premium' segment that will ultimately be defined by the 600-mile range."

https://www.topspeed.com/samsung-solid-state-battery-different-li-ion/

Old_Joe

@Observant1- Wow! I follow this stuff pretty closely, but hadn't heard anything about that development. Thanks much for the info!

Mark

That development might actually get me to seriously consider an EV should I ever be in the market for another vehicle.

Observant1

Same here Mark!
I can't fathom purchasing an EV with a lithium-ion battery when solid-state battery technology is vastly superior.

Old_Joe

Exactamente!

Derf

What's the price tag ?

Mark

@Derf - this might help you in your search. At least it's a start.

Cost of solid-state batteries

Sven

It may be too early to tell the actual cost in production. For sure the higher energy density and reduced fire hazard are welcoming attributes for EVs.

While solid-state battery manufacturers certainly agree that cost reductions can be achieved, specific details and evidence on how these savings can be achieved are generally still lacking. Studies in the literature generally do not support the manufacturers’ forecasts, although considerable differences can be found here even within the literature. Due to the higher Li requirement of the Li metal anode, at least the pure material costs are higher, whether the higher energy density offsets these extra costs remains to be seen/blockquote>

hank

Lith-Ion have a nasty habit of catching fire occasionally. ): And they andd extra weight to a vehicle - which ain’t all bad, as may add to better ride.

I wouldn’t have an all-battery powered car due to the range issue. Hybrids using lithium-ion batteries are a different story. Love the Accord hybrid. Milage has fallen slightly from 47 mpg to 44 mpg over 6+ years of driving. Interestingly, starting with the 2025 models, Toyota will no longer put gas-only power plants in the Camary. They will all be hybrid.

Derf

Weight of EV's. Caught an interesting segment on the TV awhile back . Seems the weight can & will cause more damage when involved in an accident. I hope never to meet one if in an accident! Going through guardrail seems to be a problem.

hank

Derf said:

Weight of EV's. Caught an interesting segment on the TV awhile back . Seems the weight can & will cause more damage when involved in an accident.I hope never to meet one if in an accident! Going through guardrail seems to be a problem.

Be careful what you wish to be hit with @Derf. Here’s a couple relative GVWs (gross vehicle weights) -

2018 Honda Accord Hybrid: 3364 lbs

2024 gas-only Cadillac Escalade: 5823 lbs

And the Caddy can tow up to 8,000 lbs! That’s a lot to get smacked with. I’d take my chances being hit by the Hybrid Accord if I had any choice in the matter.

Derf

@hank Of all my days on the road, I don't recall a Caddy towing anything !
Google this link ev damage from total weight capacity.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=ev+damage+from+total+weight+capacity

Sven

If solid state batteries have increased energy density of several order of magnitude. This would improve many shortcomings of today’s Li-ion powered cars. Think we still have several years to go if and when the solid state batteries are widely implemented.

hank

Derf said:

@hank “Of all my days on the road, I don't recall a Caddy towing anything!”

Ya got a point there @Derf. I don’t either. Nor the big high riding military looking rigs. All for looks ISTM.

Old_Joe

Oh come on, you guys. Anyone really needing to do serious work drives one of those idiotic Caddy pickups. Looks are everything!

hank

Old_Joe said:

Oh come on, you guys. Anyone really needing to do serious work drives one of those idiotic Caddy pickups. Looks are everything!

I’d hate for you to see what my old pickup looks like with a ton of driveway gravel in the back. I last washed it 3 or 4 years ago. But the sob hauls …

BenWP

In the 30’s Cadillac had a V-16 engine for its top models; I’d have needed a loan to pay for a tune-up.

hank

BenWP said:

In the 30’s Cadillac had a V-16 engine for its top models; I’d have needed a loan to pay for a tune-up.

Kripes!. That was back in the old days when engines had something called a “distributor.” Imagine that. Do they use timing lights anymore? Always enjoyed watching the mechanic use one when I worked at a garage as a kid.

Derf

Distributor ! Reminds me of the time Mr. Mechanic (?) didn't tighten it down on my 150 Ford pickup. Drove okay until I went to accelerate. Needless to say I was done doing business there.
Just as bad was a muffler job. I gave it a little kick & noted it wasn't tighten down as I was leaving. Back inside & back out , ready to go. On the way home I could hear a rubbing sound. Seems muffler needed to be rolled 180 degrees !
Last gripe. 4 quarts of oil on change, when it needed 5 !!
I hope both of you @hank & @BenWP enjoyed my pain.

hank

Yeah @Derf. Stuff happens. Our unofficial slogan amongst ourselves at the garage where I worked in the 60s was:

“We’ll either fix ‘em or f*** ‘em.”

All in good humor. Great bunch of guys. We usually fixed ‘em.

BenWP

@Derf and @hank: your pain reminded me of a self-inflicted wound. I change the oil on my 300ZX every year. Not long ago I completed the job and took off to do errands. About a mile from home, I hear. a loud muffled pop or boom. I pull over and see the oil filter and all the oil on the road and the shoulder where I mercifully pulled over. I remembered having trouble getting the filter to engage smoothly with the engine threads and it suddenly dawned on me that I had tried to save money by using a filter I had had for years but which was made for a Ford. With a tow and an oil change at the dealer, that service cost me what Aston Martin owners routinely pay for their over-priced coddling.

BTW, I know how to use a timing light, but that’s no guarantee I can change the oil seamlessly. There was no damage to my car’s motor, although I went through a lot of disaster thinking before getting the dealer’s positive report.

catch22

Still have a mechanical torque wrench and timing light in the garage.
How about having a 'shocking' moment when one discovered that you had a better ground path to the body frame than the coil or spark plug wire when 'checking' things.
The bad part of this is that the 'jerk' of one's arm usually caused your arm or hand to slam into somethings metal under the hood causing more damage to your body.
I had a lot of pleasure working on the cars and learned so much and saved money, but that 'AGE' syndrome thing has removed that.

Old_Joe

Certainly been there and done all of that. Very happy that I can now afford to have someone else do the work. Getting a few drops of warm dirty engine oil on my face was no fun. Never had much fun with distributors either, with the damned "condensers" (now called capacitors) frequently shorting out.

Any talk of distributors reminds me of my favorite "distributor story": Just out of high school and in the Coast Guard, and stationed at one of our "Isolated Duty" Loran radio navigation stations in the Philippines. Really isolated- no access roads, electric power, or telephone communication. All supplies came in by either seaplane or ship.

We had four hulking diesel generators for our power, with at least two running 24/7. The Coast Guard had obtained those generators from the Air Force for $1.00 each, which gives you some idea of what the Air Force thought of them.

Those things were really mechanical abortions- the engine was actually dual fuel- they started on gasoline, complete with all of the typical spark plug problems, and when warmed up there was a huge lever on the side of the engine which transferred over to the diesel feed. It was always interesting to watch the engine almost jump off it's spring mountings when making that transfer.

Of our crew of fourteen guys, three were enginemen, and five were electronics techs, of which I was one. And in addition to electronic duties I was personally responsible for the rear part of those generators- everything from the drive shaft coupling the engine to the generator through the generator switchgear and on out to everything electrical on the station.

At one point the enginemen had taken down one of the diesels for maintenance, and then they could not get the damned thing to even begin to start. Those three guys went nuts for a few days, taking everything apart again and trying to see what was wrong. Finally they gave up and decided to take the thing out of service and replace it with one of the two spares that we kept. This, to say the least, would be a major challenge for our small crew.

The enginemen had a "native" Filipino helper from the nearby village. They chipped in to pay him, and this old guy had worked at the station for many years, generally keeping the engineroom clean and doing other minor chores. At this point he asked if he could help. Desperate, the enginemen said sure, what the hell, why not... this should be interesting to watch.

The old fellow went straight to the distributor cap, pulled it off, reversed it's position 180°, and started the engine. What he knew, and none of us knew, was that that damned distributor cap had no indexing- it could be put on either of two ways.

It was quite a while before we stopped ribbing the enginemen about that one.

catch22

@Old_Joe
A great story !!!
I'll add one, too. In electronics school (the first basic classes) the instructor had charged several capacitors before class. As he was discussing the principals of a capacitor, he randomly threw several of these into the small classroom, while shouting 'catch'. Many soon learned about the ability of a capacitor to store electrical energy, as the discharge passed through the hand with an electrical sting from touching the 2 lead wires.

I think we just passed our older age test for memory.

hank

Good story @Old_Joe. Reminds me of watching a big old John Deere diesel get started when I was a kid visiting relatives in Michigan farm country. Gas first. Then when the gas engine was running good it would slowly turn the much bigger diesel engine until it started. Those Deeres had a big exposed flywheel spinning on the side. Probably 1 or 2 cylinders. Keep hands far away!

The stuff they got away with before safety standards evolved. Tricycle like tractors were popular in the 50s / 60s (essentially 3-wheelers). Very popular among farmers, but prone to rollovers.

And once saw a big old gas powered Case used mainly for field plowing started by hand cranking. I’ve heard you could get an arm broken doing that.

Old_Joe

Now you've reminded me of my tractor story! Same place in Philippines. Our family in San Francisco never had a vehicle, so I had no idea how to drive. Our Loran station in the Philippines had a grass airstrip, with an approach from over the reef on the coast of our station. Imagine a shoe box with one open end and no cover- the low approach over the reef ran right into the open end of the shoebox, whose walls were formed by the jungle which was well over 100 ft high. Our plane was a husky little seaplane with reversible props. I had no idea on my first landing there, and thought for sure that we were all dead as the plane hurtled down the grass "airstrip" toward the end jungle wall.

Then they reversed the props, and it felt like the plane was going to disintegrate from the vibration.

The tractor story? I learned how to "drive" on a small Case tractor with a sickle-bar moving attachment, which we used to mow the airstrip before a plane was due. I got in some trouble when I tried mowing in high gear, which was fun but almost destroyed the sicklebar attachment. The enginemen were not amused.

hank

@Old_Joe - Nice going. However, I thought you’d say you mowed a good part part of that jungle down to make for safer landings.

I was surprised the first time I rode a prop-driven plane when we landed at O’Hare. Sure enough - they really can reverse the thrust - on some of them anyway. ISTM it’s done by changing the prop angle rather than by reversing the engine. But I could be wrong. Possibly turbo-props might be capable of running in reverse?

@Derf / Funny remark. No feel like a teen here after spending half a day Wednesday tumbling some 100+ lb boulders around in a landscaping project! Could hardly move yesterday!

Old_Joe

@hank- yes sir, The props are reversible, not the engines. Here's a pic of our plane. This type plane was called an "Albatross". Note that it has retractible wheels, and can be used on either land or water. For takeoff on a very short airstrip such as ours it also had two JATO engines to assist takeoff. A very versatile piece of equipment.



And here's a pic of our old tractor. (Ours was certainly not nice and shiny like this one)




Here's our most versatile piece of equipment- a 3/4 ton Dodge Power Wagon, with winch on front. The small Filipino village near our station had a number of water buffalo which they used for motive power to plow the ground for planting crops. We once used the winch on the Dodge to rescue one of the buffalo who had got himself (herself?) mired in a small swamp. Those animals are not small, and that was quite an operation.



We also had a set of unpowered lawn mowers (looking something like this)

which we towed behind the Dodge as the main way to mow the airstrip.

At one point both the Dodge and the tractor were down for repairs, waiting for parts. We had no way to mow the airstrip so that the plane carrying the repair parts could land. The guys from the village showed up with their machetes, formed a line across the airstrip, and spent much of the day marching down the strip and cutting the weeds.

We had a very good relationship with the "natives" there, helping each other out whenever possible.

And finally, I can't find a pic of anything exactly like those old gasoline/diesel generators, but here's a pic of a newer unit along similar lines, to give you an idea of the general size of our generators.


What a great adventure for a nineteen year old! I just loved the Coast Guard.

hank

Thanks so much for all the photos @Old_Joe. An ”embarrassment of riches”. Wondering if that Case tractor had been painted. The old one I recall was more light orange / yellowish in tone. But badly faded. Probably pre-WWII vintage. Can’t recall their ever using it for much. Gas powered Olivers, McCormicks and John Deeres were more common on the farms of southern Michigan in the 50s & early 60s. Diesel was making inroads rapidly.

I grew up in northern Michigan and do recall those Albatrosses flying low overhead practicing takeoffs and landings on area waters. Very loud. You knew what was coming! There is, of course, a Coast Guard air station in Traverse City. Been there ever since I can remember.

I really enjoyed watching Sky King every Saturday Morning growing up. He had a pretty niece (Penny) and 2 different twin-prop planes. The first was an old tail-dragger. Later he upgraded to a really sharp one with tricycle gear. Probably Beechcrafts (a guess). But I don’t recall him reversing thrust on landings. Probably a capability limited to larger aircraft.

Old_Joe

@hank- yes, the Case tractor at our station was also light-orange / yellow and indeed "badly faded". And also yes, light aircraft don't commonly have reversible props, although some of the more expensive models do have adjustable-pitch props.

Derf

Sky King @hank Those were the days my friend ......... !