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C19 vacc side effects



  • My son, a 40-yr old super healthy airman, experienced the chills, dizzyness, body aches/joint pain, and headaches others have mentioned after each injection of the Moderna vaccine as others have reported.
  • edited February 2021
    Thankyou all

    You can also report severe side effects to your Healthcare agency and they may forward info to cdc

    Adverse Reactions


    The following adverse reactions and incidences are derived from the FDA issued emergency use authorizations (EUAs) unless otherwise specified. Refer to EUAs for specific vaccines for information regarding reporting adverse reactions (FDA 2020; FDA 2021c).

    Gastrointestinal: Diarrhea (Pfizer: 8% to 11% [placebo: 6% to 12%]; higher in younger patients), nausea and vomiting (Moderna: 9% to 21% [placebo: 4% to 8%]; higher in younger patients and with second dose)

    Local: Pain at injection site (66% to 90% [placebo: 8% to 19%]; higher in younger patients), swelling at injection site (4% to 13% [placebo: 0.2% to 1.2%])

    Nervous system: Chills (Moderna: 5% to 49%; Pfizer: 6% to 35% [placebo: 3% to 6%]; higher in younger patients and with second dose), fatigue (33% to 68% [placebo: 17% to 33%]; higher in younger patients and with second dose), headache (Moderna: 25% to 63%; Pfizer: 25% to 52% [placebo: 18% to 34%]; higher in younger patients and with second dose)

    Neuromuscular & skeletal: Arthralgia (Moderna: 16% to 46%; Pfizer: 9% to 22% [placebo: 4% to 12%]; higher in younger patients and with second dose), axillary swelling (Moderna: Including axillary tenderness; 6% to 16% [placebo: 3% to 5%]; higher in younger patients), myalgia (Moderna: 20% to 62%; Pfizer: 14% to 37% [placebo: 5% to 14%]; higher in younger patients and with second dose)

    Miscellaneous: Fever (<1% to 16% [placebo: 0.1% to 0.9%]; higher in younger patients and with second dose)

    1% to 10%:

    Gastrointestinal: Nausea (Pfizer: 1%), vomiting (Pfizer: <1% to 2% [placebo: 0.3% to 1.2%]; higher in younger patients)

    Hematologic & oncologic: Lymphadenopathy (≤1% [placebo: <0.1% to 0.6%]; unsolicited) (Polack 2020)

    Hypersensitivity: Hypersensitivity reaction (Moderna: Including injection site rash and injection site urticaria; 2% [placebo: 1.1%])

    Local: Erythema at injection site (2% to 9% [placebo: 0.4% to 1.1%])

    <1%: Nervous system: Malaise (Pfizer)

    Frequency not defined:

    Dermatologic: Facial swelling (Moderna)

    Gastrointestinal: Appendicitis (Pfizer; unsolicited; data insufficient to determine causal relationship)

    Hypersensitivity: Anaphylaxis (CDC 2021; CDC/FDA 2021a; CDC/FDA 2021b)

    Local: Local swelling (at or near the site of dermal fillers [eg, face or lips]) (CDC 2021)

    Nervous system: Bell’s palsy (unsolicited; data insufficient to determine causal relationship)

    Neuromuscular & skeletal: Joint injury (shoulder; unsolicited) (Polack 2020)

  • Curious as to if folks here think this was a "naturally occuring" virus...or research effort by experts gone awry...or bio weapon research gone awry...?

    I have no idea.

    Good Luck and Good Health to all,

    Baseball Fan
  • I find it fascinating that a large segment of the population is desperate to get vaccinated, but there are people who apparently fear side effects, which have generally been minimal and well tolerated, especially in older people.

    The delays in vaccinating a large portion of the population, mostly logistical, the total inability to vaccinate much of the less developed countries, unfortunately will give the UK and the South African variant a head start. There is more evidence that Pfizer (and probably Moderna too) will activate cell mediated immunity and be modestly protective against B1.351 ( the South African strain) but the exact extent is unclear, and it will certainly not be 95% seen with the original variant

    There are still large numbers of people who believe this is all "fake news" and have to be forced to wear masks on airplanes etc, even now, providing a ready source of vulnerable people and infections.

    Given these idiots, the slow roll out of the vaccine, rising numbers of variants and the as of yet still completely unknown issue of vaccination preventing ( or not ) asymptomatic transmission, I believe Covid 19 will be with us forever. The hospitalization and death rates will undoubtedly improve, but it is unclear how much. Further variants may be more lethal.

    As we saw this summer, Covid 19 does not appear to be seasonal, like influenza, so there will likely be significant ongoing burden of disease all year long.
  • @johnN: A search of the "Up-to-date" link which you have provided shows none of the information which you have listed.

    However, judging from the appearance, that information seems likely to have been derived from a reasonable source. Can you please provide a link to that source?

  • edited February 2021
    Here are excerpts from a disturbing report from The Washington Post.
    By Shira Rubin
    Feb. 15, 2021

    TEL AVIV — Israel's Health Ministry said Sunday that two Israelis who had recently recovered from the coronavirus have been reinfected by the variant first identified in South Africa, making a total of three such cases.

    The announcement comes even as Israel finally begins to see a drop in infection rates as a result of its nationwide vaccination drive.

    The Health Ministry this week recorded an additional 14 confirmed cases of the South African variant in Israel, bringing the total of number of such infections to 44, with 124 confirmed contacts and 36 infection chains. Health officials believe the numbers are substantially higher.

    In late January, the first Israeli, a 57-year-old man from central Israel, was reinfected with the South Africa coronavirus variant after returning from a trip to Turkey.

    Last month, U.S. pharmaceutical giant Pfizer and German biotech firm BioNTech released results from lab tests that, while not yet peer-reviewed, showed that their joint vaccine is effective against the N501Y mutation that is found in both the British and South African variants.

    In a statement, the companies said the preliminary findings “do not indicate the need for a new vaccine to address the emerging variants,” but they are “prepared to respond” with updates to their shot if necessitated by new strains.

    Another vaccine, co-developed by Oxford University and the British-Swedish pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca, proved to be only minimally effective in preventing mild and moderate forms of covid-19 caused by the variant first identified in South Africa.
  • Up TO DATE is probably the best single source for updated medical information available to health care professionals. It is not cheap ($350 a year) but it is peer reviewed and edited by top academic physicians, many of them from Hopkins, Harvard, Yale, Stamford and other "top ten" medical schools

    Here is their summary recommendation and summary of Side effects

    " For individuals who are eligible for vaccination according to local allocation priorities, we recommend COVID-19 vaccination (Grade 1B). Selection of vaccine depends on local availability. The different vaccines have not been studied head-to-head, and thus, comparative efficacy is uncertain."

    A Grade 1 B recommendation

    A Grade 1 recommendation is a strong recommendation. It means that we believe that if you follow the recommendation, you will be doing more good than harm for most, if not all of your patients.
    Grade B means that the best estimates of the critical benefits and risks come from randomized, controlled trials with important limitations (eg, inconsistent results, methodologic flaws, imprecise results, extrapolation from a different population or setting) or very strong evidence of some other form. Further research (if performed) is likely to have an impact on our confidence in the estimates of benefit and risk, and may change the estimates.

    Moderna Safety and side effects – Local and systemic adverse effects were dose dependent and relatively common after the second dose; most were of mild or moderate severity (ie, did not prevent daily activities or require pain relievers) [61]. Among participants younger than 65 years, fever occurred in 17 percent, and severe fatigue, headache, myalgias, and arthralgias occurred in 10, 5, 10, and 6 percent, respectively.

    Pfizer ( essentially the same) Safety and side effects – Local and systemic adverse effects were dose dependent and relatively common after the second dose; most were of mild or moderate severity (ie, did not prevent daily activities). Among participants younger than 55 years, fever occurred in 16 percent and severe fatigue, headache, and chills, occurred in 4, 3, and 2 percent, respectively [49]. Rates among older participants were slightly lower. "

    This has been what I have heard form friends and family who have been vaccinated. Young people have more side effects, but at the same time they are more able to deal with them.
  • @sma3- Thanks for that info. Very helpful.
  • edited February 2021
    Hi sir Old_Joe.

    I read from pamphlets/uptodate and CDC/Pfizer/revised by our institution that expect >10s-20s% regarding side effects after 2nd dose: myalgia, headache fevers, flu symptoms, tiredness. Also have General info about vaccines and where to report major adverse events. I believe the events from vaccine: ~ 0.6% of heart issues and 0.3% strokes.

    I can send you pictures of pamphlets if desire
  • Old_Joe said:

    @johnN: A search of the "Up-to-date" link which you have provided shows none of the information which you have listed.

    However, judging from the appearance, that information seems likely to have been derived from a reasonable source. Can you please provide a link to that source?

    Try this link instead:

    As one can tell from the intro, "The following adverse reactions and incidences are derived from the FDA issued emergency use authorizations", this page is not the source of the data. The data are from the clinical trials, i.e. the CDC links that I already gave.

    Without reading the CDC data, or the text quoted by sma3, one would not know that "younger patients" does not mean the same thing with Moderna data as with Pfizer data.
  • Thanks for the help on this msf. Please stay warm and safe back there.

  • Here is what I read (some of) every week, since the Journal has been making significant lay outreach efforts:

    from 6w ago:

    and otherwise more info than most of us need:
  • Thanks David- that Journal site is easy to read and well organized. Lots of good info.
  • I note that some information sources consider muscle soreness at site of injection (arm muscle) to be a "side effect". Since that always happens to me for a day or so with any injection I didn't even think of it as unusual. No big deal.
  • Taking reports of side effects now the vaccines have been given to over 40 million people is fraught with difficulty, as there is no longer a placebo group to compare to. Anyone who has a serious medical problem after the vaccine will likely be reported to the FDA but that does not mean that the vaccine caused the stoke or heart attacks or whatever. The frequency of adverse reaction the FDA reports in post marketing studies are reflective of whatever reports they receive.

    30,000 people were in both of the Pfizer and Moderna studies which is a huge number. It is large enough to give us confidence that the most serious side effects would show up, and could be compared to their frequency in the placebo group.

    I would suggest people who are interested read the original FDA data both Moderna and Pfizer submitted. You can quickly go to the section on side effects and see the actual data that compares the vaccine recipients to their placebo counterparts. The tables are clear and easy to follow.
    Here is Moderna

    The text for "deaths" follows.

    "Serious Adverse Events Deaths As of December 3, 2020, 13 deaths were reported (6 vaccine, 7 placebo). Two deaths in the vaccine group were in participants >75 years of age with pre-existing cardiac disease; one participant died of cardiopulmonary arrest 21 days after dose 1, and one participant died of myocardial infarction 45 days after dose 2. Another two vaccine recipients were found deceased at home, and the cause of these deaths is uncertain: a 70-year-old participant with cardiac disease was found deceased 57 days after dose 2, and a 56-year-old participant with hypertension, chronic back pain being treated with opioid medication died 37 days after dose 1 (The official cause of death was listed as head trauma). One case was a 72-year-old vaccine recipient with Crohn’s disease and short bowel syndrome who was hospitalized for thrombocytopenia and acute kidney failure due to obstructive nephrolithiasis 40 days after dose 2 and developed complications resulting in multiorgan failure and death. One vaccine recipient died of suicide 21 days after dose 1. The placebo recipients died from myocardial infarction (n=3), intra-abdominal perforation (n=1), systemic inflammatory response syndrome in the setting of known malignancy (n=1), COVID-19 (n=1), and unknown cause (n=1). These deaths represent events and rates that occur in the general population of individuals in these age groups.

    Non-fatal Serious Adverse Events Among participants who received at least one dose of vaccine or placebo (N=30,351), the proportion of participants who reported at least one SAE from dose 1 to the primary analysis cutoff date (November 25, 2020) was 1% in the mRNA-1273 group and 1% in the placebo group. The most common SAEs occurring at higher rates in the vaccine group than the placebo group were myocardial infarction (0.03% in vaccine group, 5 cases vs. 3 cases in placebo group), cholecystitis (0.02% in vaccine group, 3 cases vs. 0 cases in placebo group), and nephrolithiasis (0.02% in vaccine group, 3 cases vs. 0 cases in placebo group). The small numbers of cases of these events do not suggest a causal relationship. The most common SAEs occurring at higher rates in the placebo arm than the vaccine arm, aside from COVID-19 (0.1% in placebo group), were pneumonia (0.05% in placebo group) and pulmonary embolism (0.03% in placebo group). Occurrence of other SAEs, including cardiovascular SAEs, were otherwise balanced between treatment groups. "

    I think it is fair to say these vaccines are very safe, and at least so far, very very effective

  • With respect to those individuals with severe preexisting conditions it seems fair to say that getting the vaccine offers much better odds than getting Covid.
  • Interesting Article:
    The 27-Year-Old Who Became a Covid-19 Data Superstar:

    His Website:
  • That's very interesting indeed, bee. Thanks for that.
  • Thank you, @bee.
  • New side effect... PFE will get very rich.

    Bloomberg article on Pfizer's roll out of their vaccine in Israel and globally.
    Pfizer has supplied 95 million doses globally. It’s executing on one of the most ambitious scale-ups in pharmaceutical history to meet the relentless demand, boosting production to 2 billion doses in 2021—more than it has agreements to sell at this stage. It expects the vaccine to generate at least $15 billion in revenue in 2021, putting it—under the brand name Comirnaty, an ungainly blend of “Covid,” “mRNA,” and “immunity”—on track to be one of the biggest-selling drugs in the world.

    There’s no rulebook for how a global corporation should behave during a pandemic. Pfizer accomplished something extraordinary, exceeding nearly everyone’s hopes, and is now doing what pharma does: mass-marketing lifesaving products at prices the market is willing to pay. It’s not bound to serve a global public-health agenda. All that said, there will one day be an autopsy of the pandemic, and a central question might be how a single company came to hold such power over so many.
  • beebee
    edited March 2021
    A need for Low Dead Volume Syringes (which would provide a 6th dose out of every vial).

    Pfizer spent months working to extract sixth dose from vials as vaccine production shortfalls loomed
    The company’s lobbying efforts succeeded. On Jan. 6 the FDA revised its fact sheet, allowing the sixth dose and effectively boosting Pfizer’s production by 20%. Regulators in Europe, the U.K., and elsewhere followed suit. The U.S. and the U.K. had managed to source the syringes, but other countries were left scrambling. Sweden and Japan complained they didn’t have enough special syringes to extract the sixth dose and warned it would likely mean millions of doses would be thrown away. Austria was also short of supplies.

    Bourla defended the policy change by saying the company had validated 36 syringe-needle combinations that could get the extra dose out. “It would be criminal if we can use six doses, and we are throwing away one vaccine that can save lives right now,” he told Bloomberg in late January.

    The modification was a huge win for Pfizer. The company had promised to supply the U.S. with 100 million doses by the end of the first quarter, and it now says it can provide 120 million. Because nations pay by the dose, the move also delivered an instant 20% price hike per vial.

    Becton Dickinson and Co., the world’s largest needle and syringe manufacturer, contracted with the U.S. government to deliver 286 million needles and syringes for the vaccination push, including 40 million low-dead space syringes. Yet because demand for the devices has historically been much lower, “we have limited production capacity,” said Troy Kirkpatrick, senior director of public relations.
  • Yes, indeed. One more dosage translates into 20% more shot. Hopefully, J&J vaccine will help to alleviate the demand and low temp storage challenge.
  • Howdy folks,

    Wifey and I have had our 1st shot. She about a week before me. Both Moderna. She normally reacts more than I for our shots but in this case, other than point of injection tenderness, NOTHING for either of us. Apparently, the 2nd potentially has more severe reactions but my brother had none and he's normally worse than my wife. feh. Get the damn shot. Whatever brand becomes available. We'll be getting shots for this FOREVER. Get used to it. The sooner we adopt an annual flu shot procedure, the better.

    I said nine months ago that sooner or later, we were all going to get covid-19 . I was just hoping for later rather than sooner. Every day, they come up with better treatments, more vaccinations, available hospital beds, etc. Now we just have to suck it up for another 4-6 weeks and we just might survive this.

    and so it goes,

    peace and wear the damn mask,

  • The original Chinese government story, that the pandemic spread from a seafood market in Wuhan, was the first and therefore most widely accepted theory. But cracks in that theory slowly emerged throughout the late winter and spring of 2020. The first known case of Covid-19 in Wuhan, it was revealed in February, had no connection to the market. The Chinese government closed the market in January and sanitized it before proper samples could be taken. It wouldn’t be until May that the Chinese Centers for Disease Control disavowed the market theory, admitting it had no idea how the outbreak began, but by then it had become the story of record, in China and internationally.

    In the spring of 2020, inside the U.S. government, some officials began to see and collect evidence of a different, perhaps more troubling theory—that the outbreak had a connection to one of the laboratories in Wuhan, among them the WIV, a world leading center of research on bat coronaviruses.

    To some inside the government, the name of the laboratory was familiar. Its research on bat viruses had already drawn the attention of U.S. diplomats and officials at the Beijing Embassy in late 2017, prompting them to alert Washington that the lab’s own scientists had reported “a serious shortage of appropriately trained technicians and investigators needed to safely operate this high-containment laboratory.”

    But their cables to Washington were ignored.
  • edited March 2021
    Some weeks ago there was an extensive and well-documented investigative report into the whole thing on PBS/Frontline, looking at many aspects of Wuhan, including the market and other possible transmission corridors. The facts are that there is significant traffic in live animals, some of them illegal, from areas well removed from Wuhan, but trafficked to many places in China, including that Wuhan market. The sanitary conditions in that market were abysmal.

    It is true that the local government closed that market before proper samples were taken, but later samples taken from the filth in the market gutters did find traces of the virus.

    Some of the animal source areas are border areas with other countries, which are well-known to harbor similar animal diseases. The traffic is in many cases illegal, therefore there are no formal records, and obviously a great reluctance for knowledgeable people to comment to the authorities.

    The general finding of the Frontline investigation was that there are a number of probable sources involving live animals as the most likely origin, that the local governments, so as to not upset Beijing, spent more energy suppressing the news of the outbreak than trying to deal with it, and that the central Beijing government was more interested in saving international face than in a quick response after they were made aware of the situation.

    In other words, the usual governmental routine. No secret weapons, no rogue laboratories, no elaborate conspiracies. Simply more of the usual: illegitimate traffic in sick animals that probably shouldn't be eaten anyway.

    In the spring of 2020, inside the U.S. government, some officials began to promote the administration's politically fueled accusations of secret laboratory experiments and so forth. If there has ever been any actual evidence of that it has never been made public. Given our government's well justified animus towards China's present regime it's difficult to believe that if there was any such evidence it would not have been loudly and widely proclaimed for all to see.

  • The Rubrik's Cube of Vaccine Manufacturing:
    Globally, vaccines are manufactured across drug firms’ existing networks and often need to pass through several countries - and even between continents - before they are ready to inject into arms. Within the EU alone, more than 30 plants from Sweden to Spain are involved in the production of COVID-19 vaccines. AstraZeneca says it has manufacturing capacity in 25 sites across 15 countries, in a chain of partnerships that one company executive likens to a Rubik’s Cube puzzle.
  • edited March 2021
    Here's additional current information from NPR on the likely COVID source:
    A member of the World Health Organization investigative team says wildlife farms in southern China are the most likely source of the COVID-19 pandemic.

    China shut down those wildlife farms in February 2020, says Peter Daszak, a disease ecologist with EcoHealth Alliance and a member of the WHO delegation that traveled to China this year. During that trip, Daszak says, the WHO team found new evidence that these wildlife farms were supplying vendors at the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan with animals.

    Daszak told NPR that the government response was a strong signal that the Chinese government thought those farms were the most probable pathway for a coronavirus in bats in southern China to reach humans in Wuhan.

    Those wildlife farms, including ones in the Yunnan region, are part of a unique project that the Chinese government has been promoting for 20 years now.

    "They take exotic animals, like civets, porcupines, pangolins, raccoon dogs and bamboo rats, and they breed them in captivity," says Daszak.

    The agency is expected to release the team's investigative findings in the next two weeks. In the meantime, Daszak gave NPR a highlight of what the team figured out.

    "China promoted the farming of wildlife as a way to alleviate rural populations out of poverty," Daszak says. The farms helped the government meet ambitious goals of closing the rural-urban divide, as NPR reported last year.

    "It was very successful," Daszak says. "In 2016, they had 14 million people employed in wildlife farms, and it was a $70 billion industry."

    Then on Feb. 24, 2020, right when the outbreak in Wuhan was winding down, the Chinese government made a complete about-face about the farms.

    "What China did then was very important," Daszak says. "They put out a declaration saying that they were going to stop the farming of wildlife for food."

    The government shut down the farms. "They sent out instructions to the farmers about how to safely dispose of the animals — to bury, kill or burn them — in a way that didn't spread disease."

    Why would the government do this? Because, Daszak thinks, these farms could be the spot of spillover, where the coronavirus jumped from a bat into another animal and then into people. "I do think that SARS-CoV-2 first got into people in South China. It's looking that way."

    First off, many farms are located in or around a southern province, Yunnan, where virologists found a bat virus that's genetically 96% similar to SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes the disease COVID-19. Second, the farms breed animals that are known to carry coronaviruses, such as civet cats and pangolins.

    Finally, during the WHO's mission to China, Daszak said the team found new evidence that these farms were supplying vendors at the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan, where an early outbreak of COVID-19 occurred.

    The market was shut down overnight on Dec. 31, 2019, after it was linked to cases of what was then described as a mysterious pneumonia-like illness.

    "There was massive transmission going on at that market for sure," says Linfa Wang, a virologist who studies bat viruses at Duke-NUS Medical School in Singapore. He's also part of the WHO investigative team. Wang says that after the outbreak at the Huanan market, Chinese scientists went there and looked for the virus.

    "In the live animal section, they had many positive samples," Wang says. "They even have two samples from which they could isolate live virus."

    And so Daszak and others on the WHO team believe that the wildlife farms provided a perfect conduit between a coronavirus-infected bat in Yunnan (or neighboring Myanmar) and a Wuhan animal market.

    "China closes that pathway down for a reason," Daszak says. "The reason was, back in February 2020, they believed this was the most likely pathway [for the coronavirus to spread to Wuhan]. And when the WHO report comes out ... we believe it's the most likely pathway too."

    The next step, says Daszak, is to figure out specifically which animal carried the virus and at which of the many wildlife farms.
  • Someone ELSE booked appointments for me just today for the Pfizer shot. The 2nd dose is automatically booked, when you book the first one. It will be at the medical office annex attached to the nearby hospital. I tried three times. That entire procedure is nothing short of a cluster-fuck.
  • Evidently that depends on who is in charge of administrating the vaccine delivery. My wife and I, and another couple who are friends, made no attempt to request vaccine appointments. We all have the same health provider, but different doctors. Sutter Health, a large California health provider, notified all of us that appointments had been made for us on a specific day at a specific time.

    We all showed up at our appointed times, received the vaccine on time as scheduled, and were then automatically rescheduled for the second appointment. We all have now received both shots, and are in pretty good shape.

    FWIW, we all received the Moderna vaccine, and had no effects from the first shot. The second was something else- we all were out of commission for the entire next day, but recovered fully within two days.
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