Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
Here is an article from mid-2020 concerning voter mail fraud. Look at the four individuals involved in the mail fraud and what they were trying to accomplish.
In his "liddle" mind, the election will be 'unfair' if he looses. Big or close result, it doesn't matter, if he loses he'll claim it's rigged, unfair, and some deep-state conspiracy and try to litigate his way into stayin in office and outside of a prison cell in the SDNY.
Voting by mail is in itself problematic in terms of delays and logistics, but the BIG problem is accountability. If we could know that each mailed ballot links to a live voting-eligible adult making a voluntary choice then I'm OK with it. But each of these elements is highly suspect. And, I'll give you my personal two-cents....maybe not everyone should vote. What is the quality of the analysis and judgement of someone who couldn't figure out a way to vote live or by absentee ballot, and had no motivation to do either? I think one party benefits from collecting such votes, and it's pretty clear which one.
And, I'll give you my personal two-cents....maybe not everyone should vote. What is the quality of the analysis and judgement of someone who couldn't figure out a way to vote live or by absentee ballot, and had no motivation to do either? I think one party benefits from collecting such votes, and it's pretty clear which one.
Not an uncommon opinion in our history. That's why we have a long history of suppressing voters. Someone decides that they possess some unique qualification by which to dispossess other citizens of their Constitutional rights. William Rehnquist for example.
In Iowa, the Republican Party mailed absentee ballot applications to voters without waiting for requests. In Pennsylvania, the GOP’s website promotes voting by mail: "Vote Safe: By mail. From home.” And in Ohio, the Republican Party sent mailers with Trump’s photo saying “Join President Trump and Vote by Absentee Ballot.”
Tens of millions of Americans will cast their ballot for president by mail this year — many in Republican-dominated states and swing states where Republican turnout is crucial for Trump — as the coronavirus outbreak keeps Americans at home. And it won’t be the first time. More than 33 million Americans — nearly 1 in 4 — voted by mail in Trump’s election in 2016.
“Vote by mail really works well here in Utah,” said Justin Lee, director of elections in Utah, where the Republican administration sends ballots to every voter in the state. “We do feel it’s safe and secure. We don’t feel there are any real instances of either widespread fraud or voter disenfranchisement.”
Many Republicans are outwardly careful not to address Trump's remarks, but privately they worry his escalating accusations of fraud could scare reliable supporters from voting remotely. New polling has fueled these concerns and Democrats are outpacing Republican requests for absentee ballots in some swing states.
Democrats finally figured out how to request absentee ballots.
Here in Arizona I was able to opt into permanent absentee ballots when I registered for my driver's license.
I'm far, far more concerned with voter suppression than I am concerned with fraudulent mailed in votes. It's been shown many, many times that voter fraud is nearly non-existent.
the BIG problem is accountability. If we could know that each mailed ballot links to a live voting-eligible adult making a voluntary choice then I'm OK with it.
the BIG problem is accountability. If we could know that each mailed ballot links to a live voting-eligible adult making a voluntary choice then I'm OK with it.
paranoid nonsense, sorry, just read up, seriously
way too much listening to DT et alia and to Faux
I am very well read on this. You are clearly not. The problem is you read the mainstream news which by and large does support the view that mail-in voting is generally OK insofar as there is generally limited fraud and what fraud there is does not affect elections. As I said, I have no problem with fair and accurate mail-in voting. The problem is that the mail opens areas for fraud that do not otherwise exist. This is an article from yesterday (of course being slanted to be an oddball example seized upon by Trump) https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/19/nyregion/nj-election-mail-voting-fraud.html)
There have been other similar examples of disastrous mail-in voting. And, the problems are just what I identified: dead people voting; untraceable votes; repetitive votes. Sometimes this delays election results for weeks. Imagine the problems when you apply this process to the entire country, including states inexperienced in mail-in voting. This is not about political sides, it's quite factual. And, just as obvious why only one side is pounding the table for mail-in voting.
>> There have been other similar examples of disastrous mail-in voting.
please, you who are so 'very well read', give your examples of 'disasters'. I am not sure you read the NYT link you posted, in fact it seems not. Or not honestly.
>> And, the problems are just what I identified: dead people voting; untraceable votes; repetitive votes. Sometimes this delays election results for weeks.
ditto; give some backup
>> Imagine the problems when you apply this process to the entire country, including states inexperienced in mail-in voting. This is not about political sides, it's quite factual. And, just as obvious why only one side is pounding the table for mail-in voting.
"only one side is pounding the table for mail-in voting"
Evidently you didn't bother to read WABAC's post, just above. So here it is again:
In Iowa, the Republican Party mailed absentee ballot applications to voters without waiting for requests. In Pennsylvania, the GOP’s website promotes voting by mail: "Vote Safe: By mail. From home.” And in Ohio, the Republican Party sent mailers with Trump’s photo saying “Join President Trump and Vote by Absentee Ballot.”
Tens of millions of Americans will cast their ballot for president by mail this year — many in Republican-dominated states and swing states where Republican turnout is crucial for Trump — as the coronavirus outbreak keeps Americans at home. And it won’t be the first time. More than 33 million Americans — nearly 1 in 4 — voted by mail in Trump’s election in 2016.
“Vote by mail really works well here in Utah,” said Justin Lee, director of elections in Utah, where the Republican administration sends ballots to every voter in the state. “We do feel it’s safe and secure. We don’t feel there are any real instances of either widespread fraud or voter disenfranchisement.”
Many Republicans are outwardly careful not to address Trump's remarks, but privately they worry his escalating accusations of fraud could scare reliable supporters from voting remotely. New polling has fueled these concerns and Democrats are outpacing Republican requests for absentee ballots in some swing states.
I have a question.... does anyone remember another election when so many members of the presidents own party came out against him? I can't keep track of all of them and they paint a bleak picture of his performance. I don't remember any other election with this many members of the same party basically saying I'm a life long member but he's unfit for office so please vote for the other guy. VOTE
I have a question.... does anyone remember another election when so many members of the presidents own party came out against him? I can't keep track of all of them and they paint a bleak picture of his performance. I don't remember any other election with this many members of the same party basically saying I'm a life long member but he's unfit for office so please vote for the other guy. VOTE
Lots of people stayed home when Hilary was on the ballot. I did. But I was new in Arizona and not quite registered due to other things going on at the time.
This year Hillary isn't on the ballot. And Mark Kelly was leading McSally before anyone knew who the presidential nominee would be.
Show me credible, verifiable proof and data for your statements wxman123 or it never happened. Here's a hint: the mainstream media is NOT the problem. Were it so they would fall on the same trash heap as Faux news, Breitbart and zero hedge quickly.
The liberal bastion /heritage.org /voterfraud/search Has documented all (?) recent cases. Very few, if any, involved national campaigns. Very few involved mail in ballots. With 140 million votes spread though out 50 states, the number of fraudulent ballots needed to turn an election would require a HUGE conspiracy. Knowing the results of the last election, which this clandestine organization would not know, they would need, what, half a million fraudulent ballots? (Because they would not know exactly which states to target and by how many.) Where are they getting the blank official ballots from the target states? Who’s signing them? Who’s sticking them in a blue mail box? I think it’s far more likely The totals on electronic In person voting machines could be hacked or the totals be altered in a unsecure laptop.
Show me credible, verifiable proof and data for your statements wxman123 or it never happened. Here's a hint: the mainstream media is NOT the problem. Were it so they would fall on the same trash heap as Faux news, Breitbart and zero hedge quickly.
The "proof" is what happened in the Patterson election alone. Are you implying that voter mail fraud never happens? I think you're in your own world with that opinion. See also https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/report/four-stolen-elections-the-vulnerabilities-absentee-and-mail-ballots A fair argument can be raised that the amount of fraud is small (and I acknowledged that upfront) but I don't think we ought to be experimenting with mail-in voting in a presidential election, particularly in states that have little or no experience in the area.
And, I'll give you my personal two-cents....maybe not everyone should vote. What is the quality of the analysis and judgement of someone who couldn't figure out a way to vote live or by absentee ballot, and had no motivation to do either? I think one party benefits from collecting such votes, and it's pretty clear which one.
Not an uncommon opinion in our history. That's why we have a long history of suppressing voters. Someone decides that they possess some unique qualification by which to dispossess other citizens of their Constitutional rights. William Rehnquist for example.
I won't mistake you for a libertarian.
I'm not sure what you're implying (I could guess, though). My friend, there is a vast difference between voter suppression (bad) and allowing political operatives to shape an election through voter harvesting and similar practices. As it stands now, anyone with even a modicum of interest can vote, including by mail through absentee ballots. Universal mail-in voting introduces issues (even if small) not otherwise present. Is it a huge issue? Probably not, but I don't think that you need to be a racist or bigot to think it's not a great idea in the next presidential election.
Here in Michigan, in 2018, the voters passed a referendum easing the requirements to vote absentee. Good. They mail you a request for a ballot (or you ask for one), you sign and return. They compare your address, DOB and signature against the voter registration records. If they match, you are mailed a ballot. You vote, sign and return and they again check it against the records and if they match, they accept your ballot and check off your name as having voted. Each precinct has paid election inspectors from both parties to watch the election and the vote counting. In the primary, we had 31 split 16/15.
While I don't know about other states, even if they mail out ballots to everyone who asks, they still have to be checked via the voter registration files and checked off. It's no different from your voting in person. If you don't trust your elected officials to do their job, frankly, just kill yourself now because there is no hope for you.
Oh, and as an aside, the kid is reelected for his 3rd term as a Republican Township Trustee. It won't be official until November 3rd, but seeing that the entire Board of Trustees is running unopposed . . . geez, I guess government can work.
Cripes, I wanted to post a photo of my cats ass campaign sign but can't figure it how. Too stupid.
Rono, I'm good with the Michigan approach, and absentee ballots in general are fine. That's different than what is being discussed currently under that banner of mail-in voting. Congrats to the Kid!
And, I'll give you my personal two-cents....maybe not everyone should vote. What is the quality of the analysis and judgement of someone who couldn't figure out a way to vote live or by absentee ballot, and had no motivation to do either? I think one party benefits from collecting such votes, and it's pretty clear which one.
Not an uncommon opinion in our history. That's why we have a long history of suppressing voters. Someone decides that they possess some unique qualification by which to dispossess other citizens of their Constitutional rights. William Rehnquist for example.
I won't mistake you for a libertarian.
I'm not sure what you're implying (I could guess, though). My friend, there is a vast difference between voter suppression (bad) and allowing political operatives to shape an election through voter harvesting and similar practices. As it stands now, anyone with even a modicum of interest can vote, including by mail through absentee ballots. Universal mail-in voting introduces issues (even if small) not otherwise present. Is it a huge issue? Probably not, but I don't think that you need to be a racist or bigot to think it's not a great idea in the next presidential election.
I'm not in favor of ballot harvesting. I agree that is the weakest link in the chain. And it is a very weak link indeed. IIRC it was the crux of the issue with the 2018 election in North Carolina's 9th Congressional district.
I do know that both parties make every effort to find unmotivated voters and get them to vote. I see no problem there. I do not make value judgements about the worthiness of unmotivated voters that are subsequently motivated by mailers, doorknockers, text messages, robocalls, or church buses driving them to the polls.
Both parties have a history of voter suppression efforts. Rehnquist came to mind because I now live in Arizona. The history of your state and city may incline you to look at the Democrats. It wouldn't take much effort to find such examples.
I do strongly disagree with the idea that "not everyone should vote." Who am I to make that decision? If you're looking for implications, look there.
Do you really want your party to stop outreach efforts to unmotivated voters that might vote your way? You don't have to worry about me picketing your house. You are free to express your opinion.
Factually speaking, voting by mail is a nearly universal option by now. We're only talking about a very few states implementing it for the first time this year. It's all over but the shouting.
Comments
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-19/trump-will-judge-election-fairness-after-vote-white-house-says?sref=368neHRO
I don't mean to shout but ...
THIS IS NOT AMERICA.
always see this also as high comedy, macabre, farcical, all that
I won't mistake you for a libertarian.
Here in Arizona I was able to opt into permanent absentee ballots when I registered for my driver's license.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/docs/pacei-voterfraudcases.pdf
way too much listening to DT et alia and to Faux
I am very well read on this. You are clearly not. The problem is you read the mainstream news which by and large does support the view that mail-in voting is generally OK insofar as there is generally limited fraud and what fraud there is does not affect elections. As I said, I have no problem with fair and accurate mail-in voting. The problem is that the mail opens areas for fraud that do not otherwise exist. This is an article from yesterday (of course being slanted to be an oddball example seized upon by Trump) https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/19/nyregion/nj-election-mail-voting-fraud.html)
There have been other similar examples of disastrous mail-in voting. And, the problems are just what I identified: dead people voting; untraceable votes; repetitive votes. Sometimes this delays election results for weeks. Imagine the problems when you apply this process to the entire country, including states inexperienced in mail-in voting. This is not about political sides, it's quite factual. And, just as obvious why only one side is pounding the table for mail-in voting.
please, you who are so 'very well read', give your examples of 'disasters'. I am not sure you read the NYT link you posted, in fact it seems not. Or not honestly.
>> And, the problems are just what I identified: dead people voting; untraceable votes; repetitive votes. Sometimes this delays election results for weeks.
ditto; give some backup
>> Imagine the problems when you apply this process to the entire country, including states inexperienced in mail-in voting. This is not about political sides, it's quite factual. And, just as obvious why only one side is pounding the table for mail-in voting.
Your last sentence gives you away, I am thinking.
Evidently you didn't bother to read WABAC's post, just above. So here it is again:
perhaps this is what is worrisome?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1296627215115984896
This year Hillary isn't on the ballot. And Mark Kelly was leading McSally before anyone knew who the presidential nominee would be.
With 140 million votes spread though out 50 states, the number of fraudulent ballots needed to turn an election would require a HUGE conspiracy. Knowing the results of the last election, which this clandestine organization would not know, they would need, what, half a million fraudulent ballots? (Because they would not know exactly which states to target and by how many.) Where are they getting the blank official ballots from the target states? Who’s signing them? Who’s sticking them in a blue mail box?
I think it’s far more likely The totals on electronic In person voting machines could be hacked or the totals be altered in a unsecure laptop.
The "proof" is what happened in the Patterson election alone. Are you implying that voter mail fraud never happens? I think you're in your own world with that opinion. See also https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/report/four-stolen-elections-the-vulnerabilities-absentee-and-mail-ballots A fair argument can be raised that the amount of fraud is small (and I acknowledged that upfront) but I don't think we ought to be experimenting with mail-in voting in a presidential election, particularly in states that have little or no experience in the area.
Here in Michigan, in 2018, the voters passed a referendum easing the requirements to vote absentee. Good. They mail you a request for a ballot (or you ask for one), you sign and return. They compare your address, DOB and signature against the voter registration records. If they match, you are mailed a ballot. You vote, sign and return and they again check it against the records and if they match, they accept your ballot and check off your name as having voted. Each precinct has paid election inspectors from both parties to watch the election and the vote counting. In the primary, we had 31 split 16/15.
While I don't know about other states, even if they mail out ballots to everyone who asks, they still have to be checked via the voter registration files and checked off. It's no different from your voting in person. If you don't trust your elected officials to do their job, frankly, just kill yourself now because there is no hope for you.
Oh, and as an aside, the kid is reelected for his 3rd term as a Republican Township Trustee. It won't be official until November 3rd, but seeing that the entire Board of Trustees is running unopposed . . . geez, I guess government can work.
Cripes, I wanted to post a photo of my cats ass campaign sign but can't figure it how. Too stupid.
and so it goes,
peace and wear the damn mask,
rono
I do know that both parties make every effort to find unmotivated voters and get them to vote. I see no problem there. I do not make value judgements about the worthiness of unmotivated voters that are subsequently motivated by mailers, doorknockers, text messages, robocalls, or church buses driving them to the polls.
Both parties have a history of voter suppression efforts. Rehnquist came to mind because I now live in Arizona. The history of your state and city may incline you to look at the Democrats. It wouldn't take much effort to find such examples.
I do strongly disagree with the idea that "not everyone should vote." Who am I to make that decision? If you're looking for implications, look there.
Do you really want your party to stop outreach efforts to unmotivated voters that might vote your way? You don't have to worry about me picketing your house. You are free to express your opinion.
Factually speaking, voting by mail is a nearly universal option by now. We're only talking about a very few states implementing it for the first time this year. It's all over but the shouting.