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If you need to categorize it then I would say that LV is the closest approximation. I only have the fund because it works in growing my portfolio value.
No, not international at all, but LV; buys and sells monthly within the SP500 according to rules involving valuations.
Do a search here, several have analyzed it thoroughly, and its own writeups are clear enough, at least on the surface. Buy the cheaper DSEEX if you can put in >$100k.
I myself own it; it's now my sole equity holding, and almost 3/4 of our total.
In the core or large-cap part of my portfolio, DSENX, has outperformed practically everything. AKREX and HNASX have gained more overall in the past five years, but DNSEX is a total-return machine due to its monthly distributions. Like @davidmoran, I own a big slice of it because it keeps on doing well.
Boy, those two sure are winners, and with TRBCX are among the few LC I have seen (have not done an obsessive search, though; maybe there are many LG) to have outperformed DSEEX since its 11/13 inception. I don't believe I have ever had so much in a single fund, either dollars or percentage.
Do a search here, several have analyzed it thoroughly, and its own writeups are clear enough, at least on the surface. Buy the cheaper DSEEX if you can put in >$100k.
$5K min for IRAs at Fidelity and Vanguard (mouse over min for IRA min), probably at some other brokerages as well.
Not in my Fidelity Roth IRA, so far as I can see anyway, and a $50 TF as well. Will doublecheck in a few days when I have new cash to deploy; it is more reliable to attempt a transaction than go by their footnotes.
Not in my Fidelity Roth IRA, so far as I can see anyway, and a $50 TF as well.
How many years since you opened your position in DSENX?
At a savings of 0.25%/year, in four years one would make up the TF on a $5K initial investment. Less time on a larger investment. Each additional investment could be made at a cost of $5/buy. So if one were adding $2000 at a time, one would break even in a year.
Clearly not useful for traders. But for people investing for the long term (or at least keeping a long term toe hold in a fund), cheaper institutional shares (for this fund or any other) can certainly be worth the entrance fee.
Does not apply to me, since, as I think I have posted before, but maybe not, I buy DSENX and then convert asap to DSEEX, which Fidelity now does promptly (always done for free). A reclassification worth knowing about there. Merrill does not offer.
I buy DSENX and then convert asap to DSEEX, which Fidelity now does promptly (always done for free). A reclassification worth knowing about there. Merrill does not offer.
In order to provide the service of a tax-free, fee-free exchange of shares, a brokerage would have to offer two different share classes of the same fund. Obviously Merrill can't do this with the Doubleline Shiller Enhanced CAPE Fund, as Merrill sells only one share class of the fund to retail DIY investors.
Are you saying that Merrill won't exchange share classes for funds where it does offer multiple classes, or just that it won't exchange DSENX with DSEEX (which it doesn't sell)? Have you tried asking them to exchange between two share classes that they do carry?
For example, will Merrill do a free exchange from $50K worth of MWHYX shares to MWHIX shares (which it sells so long as you meet a $50K min)?
Right about Merrill offerings. Dunno DSE_X answer, but presumably, almost certainly no. Maybe I did ask. Fwiw, when I moved accounts from Fido to M, DSEEX went without hitch and is DSEEX at Merrill now, no prob. Have bought only DSENX since at M, have not tried to reclassify, but surely not. I should ask again. Asking my personal rep questions is a bit of a pain, as she knows little about anything.
There were funds I had to sell first at Fido before the move, as M would not accept them. I forget what they were.
Have not had any reason to ask about exchanges of classes that M do carry.
tnx; will probably go w TRBCX if I buy anything new (huge dip, say), although I am sorely intrigued by BIVRX now, tnx to Snowball; not part of this discussion, really
Seeing as DSENX invests in those sectors that are the cheapest, I would it expect it to be less volatile than the market and that it would resist downdrafts better. Why don't the numbers play out this way? The downside capture ratios are all slightly greater than 100%.
I tried to do an in-family swap of DSENX (investor share class) for DSEEX (institutional) and it wasn't allowed. Apparently the firm treats the two share classes as different families. Thus one needs to sell and buy separately.
Mark, I recall you did a test transaction. Yes, the transaction fee would apply as noted by @msf; but one also knocks down the e.r. with DSEEX. Depending on the amount invested, the fee would be recovered fairly fast. I also trialed the purchase of DSEEX with both traditional and Roth IRA's at Fido. The minimum is $5,000; vs the $100,000 listed.
These back doors can change day to day, and also seem dependent on the competency of the rep one is talking to. I've done two tax-free, commission-free "upgrades" of funds in my taxable account. But I've encountered difficulties as well.
Generally speaking, these transactions require the approval of the fund company. (That's true at least for the tax-free part.) One of the funds I've done this with was a Baird fund. Months (years?) later I called to check that Fidelity could do the same thing with another, similar Baird fund, and the rep claimed that this is never done, I couldn't have done it, that institutional shares are only available to institutions (Baird has a $25K min on its institutional class shares), and so on. That call was a total waste of time.
For tax-free exchanges at least, Fidelity will check with the fund company while I'm on the phone to see if they will accommodate me. If the rep says he's checking with the fund company, that indicates he knows what he is doing.
Sometimes the fund company will simply refuse. Years after I bought shares of a particular fund, the company started waiving loads on its funds' A shares. Since the ER on my shares was about 3 basis points higher than on the A shares, I asked Fidelity if they could do a tax-free exchange. Fidelity checked with the fund company and was told simply, no. Not a big deal, the ER difference was inconsequential. Still, it showed that there's a certain capriciousness about the whole system.
Somewhat related - I own another fund, institutional class. I tried to make an automated addition (for $5 TF rather than the $50 if I placed the order directly). The system rejected the order - apparently the fund had been removed from Fidelity's list of funds eligible for automated investments. Fidelity told me that they were working with the fund company to get approval for automated investments.
The bottom line is that the rules imposed by DoubleLine on this fund may have changed, or you may have gotten a rep who didn't know what he was talking about. You could try calling again. And you could also get the same answer.
@msf - all of that is true. My call last night (after normal business hours) was handled by Joe Anybody (not trying to be demeaning). My call this morning was handled by my "active trader team" (their words not mine). And yes, I could call again and get either answer. It's just simpler to do the swap on my own since I have the free and required funding either way.
@Mark, I just emailed them to remind me what it is I have done for several years now, the same process each time, no changes. I think it was just that once DSENX got above $100k, a phone call permitted quick reclassification to DSEEX, no TF, no nothin'. But my memory for these things is sievelike, hence the email. Will report.
@David, at best I have less than half the $100K minimum so....
I tend to stay fully invested most of the time. I just happen to have enough to start the new position and I wouldn't build it up to the max anyway. But thanks.
Comments
Do a search here, several have analyzed it thoroughly, and its own writeups are clear enough, at least on the surface. Buy the cheaper DSEEX if you can put in >$100k.
I myself own it; it's now my sole equity holding, and almost 3/4 of our total.
The 'need' is that it steadily outperforms.
+++
Will doublecheck in a few days when I have new cash to deploy; it is more reliable to attempt a transaction than go by their footnotes.
In that case, plain old LV is how I classify it.
At a savings of 0.25%/year, in four years one would make up the TF on a $5K initial investment. Less time on a larger investment. Each additional investment could be made at a cost of $5/buy. So if one were adding $2000 at a time, one would break even in a year.
Clearly not useful for traders. But for people investing for the long term (or at least keeping a long term toe hold in a fund), cheaper institutional shares (for this fund or any other) can certainly be worth the entrance fee.
Thinking of selling some, market so bloody high.
sold out of DLEUX today, finally above my breakeven
Are you saying that Merrill won't exchange share classes for funds where it does offer multiple classes, or just that it won't exchange DSENX with DSEEX (which it doesn't sell)? Have you tried asking them to exchange between two share classes that they do carry?
For example, will Merrill do a free exchange from $50K worth of MWHYX shares to MWHIX shares (which it sells so long as you meet a $50K min)?
Dunno DSE_X answer, but presumably, almost certainly no. Maybe I did ask. Fwiw, when I moved accounts from Fido to M, DSEEX went without hitch and is DSEEX at Merrill now, no prob.
Have bought only DSENX since at M, have not tried to reclassify, but surely not. I should ask again. Asking my personal rep questions is a bit of a pain, as she knows little about anything.
There were funds I had to sell first at Fido before the move, as M would not accept them. I forget what they were.
Have not had any reason to ask about exchanges of classes that M do carry.
I tried to do an in-family swap of DSENX (investor share class) for DSEEX (institutional) and it wasn't allowed. Apparently the firm treats the two share classes as different families. Thus one needs to sell and buy separately.
and it has to be $100k
your understanding is that you need to buy DSEEX and pay the TF first?? Not how it works with my account.
Mark, I recall you did a test transaction. Yes, the transaction fee would apply as noted by @msf; but one also knocks down the e.r. with DSEEX. Depending on the amount invested, the fee would be recovered fairly fast.
I also trialed the purchase of DSEEX with both traditional and Roth IRA's at Fido.
The minimum is $5,000; vs the $100,000 listed.
Regards,
Catch
Generally speaking, these transactions require the approval of the fund company. (That's true at least for the tax-free part.) One of the funds I've done this with was a Baird fund. Months (years?) later I called to check that Fidelity could do the same thing with another, similar Baird fund, and the rep claimed that this is never done, I couldn't have done it, that institutional shares are only available to institutions (Baird has a $25K min on its institutional class shares), and so on. That call was a total waste of time.
For tax-free exchanges at least, Fidelity will check with the fund company while I'm on the phone to see if they will accommodate me. If the rep says he's checking with the fund company, that indicates he knows what he is doing.
Sometimes the fund company will simply refuse. Years after I bought shares of a particular fund, the company started waiving loads on its funds' A shares. Since the ER on my shares was about 3 basis points higher than on the A shares, I asked Fidelity if they could do a tax-free exchange. Fidelity checked with the fund company and was told simply, no. Not a big deal, the ER difference was inconsequential. Still, it showed that there's a certain capriciousness about the whole system.
Somewhat related - I own another fund, institutional class. I tried to make an automated addition (for $5 TF rather than the $50 if I placed the order directly). The system rejected the order - apparently the fund had been removed from Fidelity's list of funds eligible for automated investments. Fidelity told me that they were working with the fund company to get approval for automated investments.
The bottom line is that the rules imposed by DoubleLine on this fund may have changed, or you may have gotten a rep who didn't know what he was talking about. You could try calling again. And you could also get the same answer.
I just emailed them to remind me what it is I have done for several years now, the same process each time, no changes. I think it was just that once DSENX got above $100k, a phone call permitted quick reclassification to DSEEX, no TF, no nothin'. But my memory for these things is sievelike, hence the email. Will report.
I tend to stay fully invested most of the time. I just happen to have enough to start the new position and I wouldn't build it up to the max anyway. But thanks.