Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
Yes, there are a few ETFs out there now that seem to buy companies that contribute to the development of artificial intelligence or produce products that would benefit from AI. Some ETF examples are BOTZ, ARKQ and ROBO.
Way too narrow a focus for my tastes. I’m in the “preservation” stage owing to both age and market perception.
But thanks for the question. If I really wanted to bet on AI, I might buy Amazon or a fund that owns it. Do you have an Echo device in your home? Even with our “horse & buggy” internet the things Echo can do seamlessly are just astounding (We got 2 named Echo and Alexa). Bezos seems to fling a lot of darts at various targets. Many of his new ideas fall flat. But occasionally he hits a grand slam (forgive the mixed metaphor). He did it with Kindle which dominates the market for e-readers and he’s doing it now with Echo.
If you don’t have an Echo ...
The App ...
- Responds by your calling its name
- Speaks in a very conversational tone with accurate pronunciation and quite a lot of human-like inflection.
- Quickly looks up information ranging from weather forecasts (1-7 days out), to Wikipedia based inquiries, to common statistics like the size and age of the universe or the flying time between NY and London.
- Can switch on lights, set the thermostat or play back music from Amazon at your command
This is incredible AI technology.
I think Amazon (1) will continue to improve the Echo device by adding new capabilities and (2) hit another home run in a few years with some new AI we’re not even thinking about today.
Valuation? Don’t know. I don’t trust the equity markets period at these levels. But that’s just me.
@hank- It's just me, but I'm with Maurice in this area. No way do I want "someone" sitting there in my home listening to and recording every word that I speak and filing "data" away somewhere for who knows what future use. I find it hard to believe that people would want a total stranger sitting there in their home recording every word that's said, but they evidently have no problem with "Alexa" or "Echo" doing the same thing. Totally creepy.
@hank- It's just me, but I'm with Maurice in this area. No way do I want "someone" sitting there in my home listening to and recording every word that I speak and filing "data" away somewhere for who knows what future use. I find it hard to believe that people would want a total stranger sitting there in their home recording every word that's said, but they evidently have no problem with "Alexa" or "Echo" doing the same thing. Totally creepy.
An absolutely reasonable response. It’s important to protect our privacy - assuming we still have any left.
Your sat or cable provider knows what you view and when. Sirius XM knows whether you’re a follower of MSNBC, Fox or Bloomberg. Cities have cameras on street corners and in public areas - and with facial recognition can identify most everyone. Don’t forget the ever present security cameras at shopping malls, hotels, sports events etc. Than there’s the license plate readers along the highway or in patrol cars that know where you’re going or coming from. And your internet provider knows a lot about you as well. If you shop online the sellers know your underwear size, the brand and amount of coffee you drink and can guess your approximate income level. If you download ebooks or subscriptions they can well deduce your political leaning. Google maps can quite readily produce a satellite image of your home and backyard that will show whether you have an outdoor pool, BQ-pit, the year and make of your auto, and quantity of lawn furniture - provided they have your street address. If you carry a cell phone or tablet device the service providers can track your whereabouts using cell tower location or gps if you leave it turned on. Police/DEA choppers overhead monitor homes’ heat radiation from above to locate drug growing operations. Buying with a debit or credit card is another way we’re continually tracked.
I think we’re at a point where you need to trust some purveyors of technology or stay behind in the backwaters of yesteryear. Not an easy choice. I’d be all for legislation to try and prevent abuses. I’ve had workers in the house (plumbers, carpet installers, etc.) who objected to our having active echo devices. They felt they were being spied on while working! Of course, there’s an “off” button complete with red light, and you can always unplug them if you don’t trust the button! Officially, only queries made after the device engages (at your command) are recorded and sent to Amzaon’s server. But, of course, the potential for unauthorized eavesdropping does exist.
Regardless of your views on these devices, the OP was about investing in AI. Thinking “Echo” just a sign if what’s coming along in the future (likely much more sophisticated) I tossed out Amazon as a potential investment - based in large measure on confidence in management along with consumer trends,
I think it's a very interesting sector for the present into the future. Strangely enough, I became more interested after watching the HBO show, Westworld, which is based on the advancement of AI. The more I researched the industry, the more I realized just how many companies and $$$ are being put to use for the development/creation of AI for society, from driverless cars to voice assistants, virtual reality and robotics. I don't think it's going away anytime soon. Lots of interesting stories out there about the topic. Here's a random story I found about how AI can affect the transportation industry. FWIW...
Howdy @willmatt72 This is just my opinion here, of course. As MJG has stated many times over the years, don't take investment suggestions from internet strangers. My observations of the A.I. area, from a tech. background. As noted by others, one doesn't need a tech. background to observe what is taking place all of the time in the world of technology. I suspect the majority of the public, let alone many investors; don't really pay attention to what is taking place. No second thoughts about Alexa and related, nor to the fact of face or thumb print recognition for personal devices they use everyday or their Robo floor sweeper, eh? Many here have A.I., machine learning and robotic manufacturing investments and chip companies through some broad-based equity holdings and/or technology fund holdings; which includes medical/biotech. The big names one recognizes; Alphabet, Apple, Amazon, Google, IBM, and list goes on...are obviously involved in A.I. type functions. Amazon may seem an " e-commerce" only company to most.....but, not, yes? Amazon and other established companies continue and IMHO will continue (if it fits their business model) to acquire publicly traded companies and start ups one has never heard the name of, involved with all things tech.
Thoughts about some of this. 1. From the vast personal wealth that exists from previous involvement in technology, many of the small A.I. related companies will not become public, as they are able to be fully funded by private monies,but may be purchased by established companies, as in companies with BOTZ and related etf's. 2. Two quick examples. Want to be a para-legal? Not so sure this is a good choice today. A company is working on case procedures, background work for a form of legal proceeding, legal contracts. The human search to discover needed documents required 51-156 minutes (best and worst human discovery times), while an A.I. powered server loaded with proper data required 26 seconds. NOTE: I'm writing this example with the belief the information is correct, reference, LAWGEEX. 2a. Benevolent. A private British company. Removed my write and placed this short video link next:
This easy view link below of holdings (only the top 10 of 29, unless you have a Fidelity account) for the top 10, which is 70% of this etf, BOTZ . At least for this etf, one is not investing in a bunch of start up companies. These are established companies to a global aspect, many of which, the individual investor does not have ready access to invest easily.
@willmatt72 I started this write a few days ago, but schedules got in the way of posting. I have read your recent follow-up and obviously you continue to search for validation of investment potential in this more narrow tech. sector. I personally find this area valid for investment. Yes, there will be burps here and there; not unlike broad equity and equity sector investing. Whether narrow sector investing is suitable for all portfolios obviously depends upon the individual, their overall portfolio, their temperament and study of a given area. Our house tends more towards chunk investing versus dollar cost averaging; but this sector is valid (IMHO) to whatever method is available or of a comfort level for an individual. Heck, lots of folks here do sector investing.....Europe, Asia, growth, value, healthcare, tech., EM bonds, IG bonds, etc. Generally speaking, we're all sector investors attempting to establish a "balance".
I'm going to dig through a few saved videos and post to your thread later. Current Westworld is good example. I recall watching the original movie with Yul Brenner. Didn't proof read this......hopefully, not too messy. Regards, Catch
Primitive forms of AI (part of marketing) are already used to track your shopping habit including Amazon and other retailers. They track your IP address, the items you look at and the amount of time you spend on each item. They will bring up those items later several days later as you surf the web.
If you want to protect your IP address, you can pay a VPN service (via monthly subscription).
To complicate matters, there is now ROBT, a competitor to ROBO and BOTZ. A cynic might ask if AI is involved in the creation of ETFs; they seem to materialize when a human starts thinking.
@Catch - Understood about taking advice from internet strangers Just throwing it out there, as stated in my OP. But thanks for your thoughts and research on this issue. I just find it pretty interesting and some sort of wave of the future. I'm sure there are many media watchers who noticed the constant spotlight and fixation on Tesla's plight and future. I own PRGTX but haven't ventured any further into a strict AI ETF. I appreciate the links as well. After delving into the topic a bit, I don't think people realize how much AI has permeated society already. I'm going to do some further research based on your links as well as some digging on my own.
“Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.”
I’m not sure how many times this ground needs to be plowed. If you are in need of investment advice seek out a trained, certified financial advisor / planner - preferably one with a shingle hanging out in front with his / her name on it.
@Hank - This board is used to talk about investments, bounce ideas around and discuss investment topics. People talk about their own investments on a daily basis. I don't need a financial advisor as I've been successful at investing on my own for 25 years. Maybe you missed the part where I wrote, "I'm going to do some further research based on your links as well as some digging on my own." If you don't like the thread, move on.
@willmatt72 Cost of some industrial robotics, not unlike other "new" in many areas; will be a part of all of this, too. The pros and cons, the needs and the wants, will get worked out.
You've probably already searched videos, but this link is a good overview for some robotics. ALSO, while at YouTube, if interested; search Boston Dynamics robots. This company is an example of a private company purchased by Google several years ago and then sold to Softbank of Japan. The CEO of this company is on the ball/forward looking and has built a large empire of technology.
@Old_Joe, I know you'll likely enjoy the video links in the below link. Start with the 3rd down.....8 Amazing Robots
Just the above robotics is the one area; which still leaves machine learning, other A.I., manufacturing, chip makers/engineering and all of the areas these will become involved.
Whoa! I did like the thread - as evidenced by two earlier contributions I made to it. Where I thought it got a bit sidetracked was when it turned to whether or not investment advice from “complete strangers” on the internet ought to be elicited or trusted. Of course not! Catch said it. You repeated it. And David’s disclaimer seems to say the same.
Please know that my comment, to which you seem to have taken offense, was not directed at you personally (there’s no @willmatt72). It does appear that my use of the personal pronoun “you” may have tripped your fuse. It was, however, intended in the plural to refer to “All Those” who seek advice. In hindsight, I might have substituted “anyone” or “everyone” - but “you” seemed a bit stronger and more direct.
Here’s what Wikipedia says re use of “you” in the plural: “The pronoun you is the second-person personal pronoun, both singular and plural, and both nominative and oblique case in Modern English.”
@Hank - It's not a big deal, but I didn't understand the need to drop in the MFO disclaimer in the middle of the thread and follow it with, "I’m not sure how many times this ground needs to be plowed." Clearly, you felt the need to "plow that ground," so to speak. Not sure why.
I'm well aware of the uses of the pronoun, you. It was not preceded by any reference to a plural subject or group. It was dropped in the comment to appear directed at a person, not the group. I'm sure you can see that it could be interpreted that way. Maybe you should make it clear who you are addressing in your future posts. That's why I start my posts with @ Hank or @ Catch. In this case, you may want to use "anyone" or "those" or @All. Just a suggestion. Regards, Will
I thought last nights 60 Minute segment on the MIT Media Lab by Scott Pelley was pretty interesting. A bit scary, but interesting.
Some of the stories/video that I've seen about AI are a bit creepy and disturbing. The robotic animals and people are just strange. The other stuff on retail and transportation are less imposing. Maybe I'm getting old LOL
If you like AI and like Amazon then there is one fund which gives you considerable exposure. Fidelity's Select Retailing (FSRPX) which has a 24.5% weighting to AMZN. The fund manager recently stated she likes AMZN not only for its disruptive business model but also for its commitment to AI. (Disclosure: I own FSRPX)
Info only: BOTZ , managed by Global X........Global X is being acquired. See link below. There is a shareholder vote; but I suspect this is a done deal, and reportedly will not affect Global X and its etf offerings.
An add short write regarding top 5 most promising A.I. companies, which have been discussed a bit in this thread. But, a few extra added info pieces via video, too.
Comments
But thanks for the question. If I really wanted to bet on AI, I might buy Amazon or a fund that owns it. Do you have an Echo device in your home? Even with our “horse & buggy” internet the things Echo can do seamlessly are just astounding (We got 2 named Echo and Alexa). Bezos seems to fling a lot of darts at various targets. Many of his new ideas fall flat. But occasionally he hits a grand slam (forgive the mixed metaphor). He did it with Kindle which dominates the market for e-readers and he’s doing it now with Echo.
If you don’t have an Echo ...
The App ...
- Responds by your calling its name
- Speaks in a very conversational tone with accurate pronunciation and quite a lot of human-like inflection.
- Quickly looks up information ranging from weather forecasts (1-7 days out), to Wikipedia based inquiries, to common statistics like the size and age of the universe or the flying time between NY and London.
- Can switch on lights, set the thermostat or play back music from Amazon at your command
This is incredible AI technology.
I think Amazon (1) will continue to improve the Echo device by adding new capabilities and (2) hit another home run in a few years with some new AI we’re not even thinking about today.
Valuation? Don’t know. I don’t trust the equity markets period at these levels. But that’s just me.
Your sat or cable provider knows what you view and when. Sirius XM knows whether you’re a follower of MSNBC, Fox or Bloomberg. Cities have cameras on street corners and in public areas - and with facial recognition can identify most everyone. Don’t forget the ever present security cameras at shopping malls, hotels, sports events etc. Than there’s the license plate readers along the highway or in patrol cars that know where you’re going or coming from. And your internet provider knows a lot about you as well. If you shop online the sellers know your underwear size, the brand and amount of coffee you drink and can guess your approximate income level. If you download ebooks or subscriptions they can well deduce your political leaning. Google maps can quite readily produce a satellite image of your home and backyard that will show whether you have an outdoor pool, BQ-pit, the year and make of your auto, and quantity of lawn furniture - provided they have your street address. If you carry a cell phone or tablet device the service providers can track your whereabouts using cell tower location or gps if you leave it turned on. Police/DEA choppers overhead monitor homes’ heat radiation from above to locate drug growing operations. Buying with a debit or credit card is another way we’re continually tracked.
I think we’re at a point where you need to trust some purveyors of technology or stay behind in the backwaters of yesteryear. Not an easy choice. I’d be all for legislation to try and prevent abuses. I’ve had workers in the house (plumbers, carpet installers, etc.) who objected to our having active echo devices. They felt they were being spied on while working! Of course, there’s an “off” button complete with red light, and you can always unplug them if you don’t trust the button! Officially, only queries made after the device engages (at your command) are recorded and sent to Amzaon’s server. But, of course, the potential for unauthorized eavesdropping does exist.
Regardless of your views on these devices, the OP was about investing in AI. Thinking “Echo” just a sign if what’s coming along in the future (likely much more sophisticated) I tossed out Amazon as a potential investment - based in large measure on confidence in management along with consumer trends,
https://www.freightwaves.com/news/techpertise/artificial-intelligence-primetime
This is just my opinion here, of course. As MJG has stated many times over the years, don't take investment suggestions from internet strangers.
My observations of the A.I. area, from a tech. background. As noted by others, one doesn't need a tech. background to observe what is taking place all of the time in the world of technology. I suspect the majority of the public, let alone many investors; don't really pay attention to what is taking place. No second thoughts about Alexa and related, nor to the fact of face or thumb print recognition for personal devices they use everyday or their Robo floor sweeper, eh?
Many here have A.I., machine learning and robotic manufacturing investments and chip companies through some broad-based equity holdings and/or technology fund holdings; which includes medical/biotech.
The big names one recognizes; Alphabet, Apple, Amazon, Google, IBM, and list goes on...are obviously involved in A.I. type functions. Amazon may seem an " e-commerce" only company to most.....but, not, yes?
Amazon and other established companies continue and IMHO will continue (if it fits their business model) to acquire publicly traded companies and start ups one has never heard the name of, involved with all things tech.
Thoughts about some of this.
1. From the vast personal wealth that exists from previous involvement in technology, many of the small A.I. related companies will not become public, as they are able to be fully funded by private monies,but may be purchased by established companies, as in companies with BOTZ and related etf's.
2. Two quick examples. Want to be a para-legal? Not so sure this is a good choice today. A company is working on case procedures, background work for a form of legal proceeding, legal contracts. The human search to discover needed documents required 51-156 minutes (best and worst human discovery times), while an A.I. powered server loaded with proper data required 26 seconds. NOTE: I'm writing this example with the belief the information is correct, reference, LAWGEEX.
2a. Benevolent. A private British company. Removed my write and placed this short video link next:
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/04/19/investors-beginning-to-see-how-important-ai-can-be-for-the-uk-economy-pro.html
This easy view link below of holdings (only the top 10 of 29, unless you have a Fidelity account) for the top 10, which is 70% of this etf, BOTZ . At least for this etf, one is not investing in a bunch of start up companies. These are established companies to a global aspect, many of which, the individual investor does not have ready access to invest easily.
https://screener.fidelity.com/ftgw/etf/goto/snapshot/portfolioComposition.jhtml?symbols=BOTZ
Another A.I. example:
https://sciencetrends.com/just-4-hours-googles-ai-mastered-chess-knowledge-history/
@willmatt72 I started this write a few days ago, but schedules got in the way of posting.
I have read your recent follow-up and obviously you continue to search for validation of investment potential in this more narrow tech. sector. I personally find this area valid for investment. Yes, there will be burps here and there; not unlike broad equity and equity sector investing. Whether narrow sector investing is suitable for all portfolios obviously depends upon the individual, their overall portfolio, their temperament and study of a given area.
Our house tends more towards chunk investing versus dollar cost averaging; but this sector is valid (IMHO) to whatever method is available or of a comfort level for an individual. Heck, lots of folks here do sector investing.....Europe, Asia, growth, value, healthcare, tech., EM bonds, IG bonds, etc. Generally speaking, we're all sector investors attempting to establish a "balance".
Our other tech.: FTEC
https://screener.fidelity.com/ftgw/etf/goto/snapshot/portfolioComposition.jhtml?symbols=FTEC
Additional: ROBO composition
https://screener.fidelity.com/ftgw/etf/goto/snapshot/portfolioComposition.jhtml?symbols=ROBO
Chart overview, 1 year, selected tech.
http://stockcharts.com/freecharts/perf.php?BOTZ,ROBO,XLK,IXN,JAGTX,FSPTX&p=5&O=011000
Disclosure: 6% of our equity exposure is BOTZ.
I'm going to dig through a few saved videos and post to your thread later. Current Westworld is good example.
Didn't proof read this......hopefully, not too messy.
Regards,
Catch
If you want to protect your IP address, you can pay a VPN service (via monthly subscription).
http://www.morningstar.com/news/benzinga/BenzBZW_11247696/domo-arigato-mr-roboto-first-trust-launches-ai-robotics-etf.html
“Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.”
I’m not sure how many times this ground needs to be plowed. If you are in need of investment advice seek out a trained, certified financial advisor / planner - preferably one with a shingle hanging out in front with his / her name on it.
Cost of some industrial robotics, not unlike other "new" in many areas; will be a part of all of this, too. The pros and cons, the needs and the wants, will get worked out.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/sam-bricklaying-robot-6x-faster-than-you-can/
You've probably already searched videos, but this link is a good overview for some robotics. ALSO, while at YouTube, if interested; search Boston Dynamics robots. This company is an example of a private company purchased by Google several years ago and then sold to Softbank of Japan. The CEO of this company is on the ball/forward looking and has built a large empire of technology.
@Old_Joe, I know you'll likely enjoy the video links in the below link. Start with the 3rd down.....8 Amazing Robots
https://www.google.com/search?biw=1404&bih=659&tbm=vid&ei=kkbdWoaaJouHjwT0t56wBg&q=robots&oq=robots&gs_l=psy-ab.12..0l10.37093.41458.0.46343.16.9.0.0.0.0.132.726.8j1.9.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..11.5.429...0i7i30k1j0i8i7i30k1j0i13k1.0.JbiOidGth-A
Just the above robotics is the one area; which still leaves machine learning, other A.I., manufacturing, chip makers/engineering and all of the areas these will become involved.
Take care,
Catch
Please know that my comment, to which you seem to have taken offense, was not directed at you personally (there’s no @willmatt72). It does appear that my use of the personal pronoun “you” may have tripped your fuse. It was, however, intended in the plural to refer to “All Those” who seek advice. In hindsight, I might have substituted “anyone” or “everyone” - but “you” seemed a bit stronger and more direct.
Here’s what Wikipedia says re use of “you” in the plural: “The pronoun you is the second-person personal pronoun, both singular and plural, and both nominative and oblique case in Modern English.”
Regards
I'm well aware of the uses of the pronoun, you. It was not preceded by any reference to a plural subject or group. It was dropped in the comment to appear directed at a person, not the group. I'm sure you can see that it could be interpreted that way. Maybe you should make it clear who you are addressing in your future posts. That's why I start my posts with @ Hank or @ Catch. In this case, you may want to use "anyone" or "those" or @All. Just a suggestion.
Regards,
Will
Info only: BOTZ , managed by Global X........Global X is being acquired. See link below. There is a shareholder vote; but I suspect this is a done deal, and reportedly will not affect Global X and its etf offerings.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/global-x-and-mirae-assets-etf-businesses-combine-to-create-a-global-etf-franchise-300598198.html
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/268342-the-5-most-promising-companies-in-ai-development
https://qz.com/1264673/ai-is-the-new-space-race-heres-what-the-biggest-countries-are-doing/