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"Our service is terrible but we'll charge you $100 to transfer your account."
I'm sorry some of you have had poor experiences with Vanguard. Our experiences have been exactly the opposite. We have had accounts with Vanguard for 30+ years and have received excellent support. I don't want newbies reading this thread to think Vanguard is uniformly bad. They deliver excellent products for extremely competitive prices. Their fee structure may be designed to discourage millions of tiny little accounts, but those are the bane of any mutual fund / etf company.
Agree, we do not want any newbies reading this thread to be misdirected.
I stayed away from participating on this and other threads discussing about Vanguard's negative virtues but your post prompted me to share my experience. I have a 7 figure account with Vanguard, which is my first investment account opened 30 years ago. While all brokerages' service quality has dropped since beginning of Covid, many are slowly recovering. Vanguard service quality stunk for more than 5 years and does not show any promise of abating. Rich folk do not care about costs of their investments but they care about total returns and quality of service is why they put their money in venture capital, private equity, and other structured products. Costs are important to the tiny investors that presumably (according to you) Vanguard is trying to restrict / kick out. I do not mind paying to encourage the tiny investor. Over the years, I sent many written suggestions to Vanguard to improve their service quality and then decided to keep my silence. Vanguard has a culture problem and has become the Boeing of investment firms.
Please see my previous post for what I am doing now.
also as i ~3 decade flagship user, dropping integrated banking services was when i noticed the steep decline in vanguard :
- vanguard themselves added the burden of tens of millions of small accounts by relentless promotion of index products, lower minimums, and lower ER. they need to cover this burden, in addition to their generous 'not-for-profit' salaries, perks, and campus expansions.
- vanguard services\tools\fees have gotten worse for all clients. i would say the impact is more for HNW , since some of these were never free for small accounts in the first place. so i guess it is a form of democratization of the investing experience, but not one of pride.
on a side note, peter zeihan predicts a massive decline in employment in the financial services sector for ~10 years as retirees draw down and shift to lower risk non-equity vehicles. this will not reverse until the greatest wealth inheritance transfer in history slowly begins. so expect the worst companies to get much worse.
Try not to do full account transfer. As some here have already suggested see if you can do it in two steps: partial account transfer leave a few dollars and then closing account. Check if there is additional fees for the two step process.
I learned today that they are not just poor in service quality but also behave like an autocratic government.
Those of you that transferred out taxable accounts, could you please share your experience about transfer of cost basis info? (My apologies if I am asking you to relive a pain you suffered in the process.)
There's a certain "fun element" in knocking Vanguard. While it's hard to find any upside to Vanguard's latest announcement, in itself it's not that big a deal. Most of the changes won't affect most people, as noted in the video Yogi linked to. It's more the idea these are more small steps in the wrong direction for Vanguard.
@randynevin wrote that Vanguard provides excellent products at competitive prices. True enough, and the main reason to have an account at Vanguard. All the brokerages have been pushing people toward digital "solutions" and away from human interaction. It used to be that a Flagship customer at Vanguard was assigned a specific rep. But it also used to be that a Private Client customer at Fidelity was assigned a specific rep. No more at either brokerage.
Fidelity can't even seem to assign me a "team" at its closest location any more. It used to be that a Fidelity team (formerly an individual rep) stayed with you for several years. These days, the turnover there is much quicker. Everyone seems to be moving in the wrong direction, even if Vanguard seems to be moving that way a little faster.
High Net Worth? Years ago, Vanguard introduced 8 free trades/year for Flagship customers. Both stock and TF fund trades were counted against those 8 trades. Then it upped the free trade allotment to 25/year. Then it eliminated stock commissions, so Flagship customers got 25 free TF fund trades/year regardless of any stock/ETF trades they make. A nice little perk moving in the right direction. A number of people have said that Schwab will cut some deals here, but you have to negotiate this.
Quality of execution ought to be high on the list of cost concerns. Vanguard, like Fidelity and Merrill does not receive payment for order flow - so it gets good price improvement. That's not changing.
Admiral shares? A long time ago, Vanguard treated index funds the same as actively managed funds - the entry level share class was Investor shares. Once Vanguard lowered the min for the Admiral share class of index funds to $3K, index fund Admiral shares became Investor shares in all but name. Consequently, restrictions on Admiral shares now apply only to actively managed funds' Admiral shares. One can usually transfer them to other brokerages but not buy additional shares.
ADR fees charged by a custodian are part of the ADR product and as Vanguard clearly states: "Banks that custody ADRs are permitted to charge ADR holders certain fees, as detailed in the ADR prospectuses." Vanguard is not trying to grab part of this any more than it is trying to grab part of the management fees of third party funds. Rather, it is adding a fee for processing divs from ADRs held in VBS accounts.
A feature Vanguard added recently is a bank sweep yielding 4.7% APY. That's still about 1/2% below what it pays on MMFs, but if one wants FDIC-insured cash at a brokerage, that may be better than anyone else is offering. Schwab? Not even worth looking up. Fidelity? 2.72%. Merrill? 4.71%, but that's non-sweep and requires a $100K min. Otherwise it's 3.54%. SoFi? 4.60%, but only if you have direct deposit, else 1.2%.
Not every change at Vanguard is in the wrong direction. Though unfortunately, most of them are.
Hm. I can't get personal service at all from Vanguard. I can't even get a person. I can get personal service -- by e-mail, by phone, and by walking in to a nearby branch office -- at Schwab. And by personal I mean the same one guy who has answers to my questions. Vanguard funds: top notch. Vanguard brokerage: bottom of the barrel.
@msf wrote: "Consequently, restrictions on Admiral shares now apply only to actively managed funds' Admiral shares. One can usually transfer them to other brokerages but not buy additional shares."
That's what happened to me at some point when I transferred Wellesley from VG to Schwab.
I can't buy anymore shares?
Okay, fine. I sold all of VWIAX last year, and have no VG holdings at all any more. There are always alternatives to one's favorite fund, which may be just as good or maybe even better.
Harry Sit created a guide for transferring Vanguard accounts for those who already decided to leave for one reason or another. Everyone should make their own decisions and many should perhaps stay at Vanguard. https://thefinancebuff.com/steps-before-transfer-from-vanguard.html
Vanguard monthly statement seems to arrive 2 - 3 days before Schwab. 6:08 P.M. e-mail noted VG statement ready. +1 Let me add: At 2:08 A.M. today Schwab noted by e-mail my monthly statement was up for viewing. I hope I didn't keep Chuck up to late !
Harry Sit created a guide for transferring Vanguard accounts for those who already decided to leave for one reason or another. Everyone should make their own decisions and many should perhaps stay at Vanguard. https://thefinancebuff.com/steps-before-transfer-from-vanguard.html
I strongly urge posters to read the info in the above post before initiating any transfer out.
I had an open sell one Vanguard mutual fund and buy another Vanguard mutual fund order for the same amount. I submitted the transfer request during after hours after my trade orders were placed. When the transfer request was received the following morning, Vanguard promptly cancelled my buy order, without cancelling the sell order and did not send me a notification of their action. I logged into my account around 2:30PM and saw what happened and tried to cancel the sell order using the cancel button next to the order because I did not want to be out of the market. I spent about 40 minutes after that with a Vanguard rep to get the sell order cancelled or in the alternative, to reinstate my buy order. Vanguard refused to do either on the pretext that once a transfer request was received they will not let me buy any new mutual fund and that the cut off time to cancel a buy or sell Vanguard mutual fund order is 2:15 PM and I am not allowed to cancel the sell order.
I remember having a conversation with a Vanguard rep a few months ago about cancelling Vanguard mutual fund orders and she said the cut off time is 3PM but that if I had to cancel after that time I could call them and they will try on a good efforts basis. What is bizarre is there is an active cancel button next to my resting sell order and it allowed me to click on it but there was no resulting action. I asked the rep why they have an active cancel button if they will not allow me to use it. He said that is just technology deficiency and he will be happy to send the client feedback but that does not change the cut off time to cancel is 2:15 PM.
I will not become poor because of this situation. I have a very short memory for bad experiences but Vanguard made sure that I will never forget how they handled the situation.
As Cory Doctorow says about such things, the 'enshittification' of the world continues.
Somewhat relatedly (but a tangent, I admit) yesterday ATT dropped all their consumer plans down a tier in terms of QCI service levels just so they could launch their 'Turbo' feature on their highest plan which essentially brings you back to where you were last month in terms of service during congestion/peak times. For only $7 more per month, I might add. So in essence they're jacking prices on that plan $7 without coming out and saying it. A total sleeze move and money grab.
@BaluBalu, when there are multiple ways of doing something at Vanguard, some are more preferable than others.
In the case you described, "Exchange" would have worked fine for simultaneous overnight exchange. If "Exchange" involves non-VG fund(s), it may take 2 days, one day to sell, another to buy.
It may be similar at other brokers for sell and buy orders of equal amounts when there isn't cash in a cash a/c. No problems in margin a/c.
For fair disclosure, I am a decent size customer at Vanguard, Fido, Schwab, TIAA. When they do something I don't like, I make a point to tell them how others do it. And when they pitch me to consolidate, I LECTURE them about their problematic stuff. When I get too old, I may change this, but at 75+, I can handle it/them.
In the case you described, "Exchange" would have worked fine for simultaneous overnight exchange. If "Exchange" involves non-VG fund(s), it may take 2 days, one day to sell, another to buy.
Under transaction type, one can select "Exchange (sell funds to buy funds)"
If you enter a non-Vanguard fund to sell and a non-Vanguard fund of the same family to buy, you'll be able to "Continue" to the next page. But if you enter a non-Vanguard fund to sell and a fund from a different family to buy, you get the error message: The fund being purchased must be from the same fund family and within the same share class as the fund being redeemed.
That tells you that the intra-family exchanges are not merely sequential buy and sell orders, but true exchanges. Just as if you were invested directly with a fund family and did a same-day exchange there. (As I recall, in the early days of fund supermarkets, you couldn't enter third party fund exchanges like this.)
If you want to place separate buy and sell orders, you can do that too, even simultaneously (same day). Sequential execution is not required. However, Vanguard rightly warns you on the purchase order that you had better have the money in the account when the purchase settles:
This purchase exceeds the current funds available balance. Funds are due in your settlement fund by the settlement date of the trade. Otherwise, securities in the account may be liquidated to pay for the purchase, and the account may be restricted.
This DIY flexibility is something that Fidelity does not offer. One must place a same-day cross-family order at Fidelity by phone, and one is restricted to 90% of the value of the fund being sold.
It's a good thing that one can do this online at Vanguard because calling them to make a trade will soon cost $25 unless one is at the Flagship ($1M) level.
and is losing his vision. He barely can log into his Vanguard account (will not be able to in a year or so) and can't facilitate the handful of trades his does per year online. And now Vanguard is going to penalize him for his disability?
When I get too old, I may change this, but at 75+, I can handle it/them.
Yogi, you're over 75? Wow, I thought I was usually the oldest guy around -- I'll "only" be 74 in August. However I know several guys older than me on car forums.
My error - Vanguard is adding the $25 phone fee for Vanguard fund trades. It already had a $25 fee for phone trades for non-Vanguard funds.
In comparison, Fidelity charges for fund trades over the phone:
- Fidelity funds - no charge - Automated (FAST®): 0.5625% of principal, maximum $187.50, minimum $75 - Rep-assisted: 0.75% of principal, maximum $250, minimum $100
I have a 74 year-old neighbor who has stargardt disease and is losing his vision. He barely can log into his Vanguard account (will not be able to in a year or so) and can't facilitate the handful of trades his does per year online. And now Vanguard is going to penalize him for his disability?
At almost 74, this has been going through my mind in recent years also, not for failing eyesight, but more for dementia and not being able to track and tweak things, as necessary, as I do now. So far so good. My niece will have POA when I lose it, but she doesn't know anything about investing/portfolio management.
The local Schwab guy cold-called me last week, just to see how I was doing. Hadn't had contact with him in over a year, as I normally don't have any reason to.
I asked him specifically about this potential problem. He said they have people there that will do it, plus they can recommend local independent financial firms who will do it. I knew they are out there, but who to trust? But if Schwabbie recommends them, they are more than likely going to be fine.
All the brokerages have been pushing people toward digital "solutions" and away from human interaction. It used to be that a Flagship customer at Vanguard was assigned a specific rep. But it also used to be that a Private Client customer at Fidelity was assigned a specific rep. No more at either brokerage.
Fidelity still assigns you an individual Premier Services Advisor.
@msf did they also used to assign another kind of "specific rep" as well?
But it also used to be that a Private Client customer at Fidelity was assigned a specific rep. No more at either brokerage.
Fidelity still assigns you an individual Premier Services Advisor.
@msf did they also used to assign another kind of "specific rep" as well?
As a matter of fact, they've assigned a Private Access Account Executive, a Private Client Group Account Executive (same person, different title), a Senior Account Executive (same person), an Account Executive (same person), and a Financial Consultant (same person).
Then the musical chairs began. No title changes, but in the span of three years, three different "Financial Consultants". Then a year later, when the last one left Fidelity, I was not assigned any specific rep, whatever title you wish to give to them.
I received the notice about new fees in the post today. The $100 fee for closing an account is particularly puzzling. If someone has a non-Roth IRA when they reach a certain age they are required by law to take annual distributions. That's the R in RMD. After a number of years the Vanguard investor (or heirs) will have received all the money in the IRA account. Presumably the account will then be closed. But Vanguard is going to keep $100 of the final distribution for themselves? Can that be legal?
What about a non-retirement account? In the past I have redeemed all my shares in certain mutual funds (both Vanguard and not) and the account has remained open with no money in it. That has been the actual case at Vanguard for years for me. I never requested that the account be closed and so it wasn't. If I redeem all shares of a Vanguard fund that does have money invested in it and don't request that the account be closed I wonder if they will steal, er, I mean keep, $100 of my money. Why would anyone insist that an account be closed anyway? AND, they don't say that the fee will be charged. They say that it "may" be charged.
I hesitate to engage with this tread in light of the poster’s negative experience at Vanguard. Like all brokerages, their unique fee schedules continue to evolve. Apparently this change at Vanguard strikes a nerve with many investors.
With that said, we have invested with Vanguard for over 30 years for our retirement and college 529 plans. And now, we use Vanguard’s advisory service. For Flagship customers, there is a special phone number that speeds up the connection. At the same time, we have equally size of asset at Fidelity and the combination of the two provide the best of both world, at least for us.
But it also used to be that a Private Client customer at Fidelity was assigned a specific rep. No more at either brokerage.
Fidelity still assigns you an individual Premier Services Advisor.
@msf did they also used to assign another kind of "specific rep" as well?
As a matter of fact, they've assigned a Private Access Account Executive, a Private Client Group Account Executive (same person, different title), a Senior Account Executive (same person), an Account Executive (same person), and a Financial Consultant (same person).
Then the musical chairs began. No title changes, but in the span of three years, three different "Financial Consultants". Then a year later, when the last one left Fidelity, I was not assigned any specific rep, whatever title you wish to give to them.
@msf I think you might want to consider calling Fido and just asking for one.
In my case, I was offered an individual PSA several times, but declined because I thought it might lead to more marketing, to which I am quite averse. Finally, something made me try, so I just let them know and was promptly assigned one.
Merrill? 4.71%, but that's non-sweep and requires a $100K min.
I think this is in reference to their Preferred Deposit account. If so, this is only an initial investment min, hence one would conceivably put in $100K then take them out leaving, say, $1 and then add/withdraw funds as needed - manually, as this is indeed a non-sweep account. I believe they also have several sweep accounts paying 5.17% atm, but these require a greater commitment shown here.
(To be clear, I've never had a Merrill account before but have recently decided to try them out and am in the process of transferring some funds over. The above information has been confirmed with a phone rep, but I have not had a chance to verify it myself.
Btw, so far I have found their customer service to be surprisingly helpful and competent, though I have only had minor issues to address until now. One odd thing I've encountered with Merrill is that they do not allow you to ACAT in-kind any money market funds - even those that Merrill itself offers - which is a bit of a nuisance, iyam.
Incidentally, I was also told that one can trade against their mm fund balance at Merrill - the same way one can do, say, at Schwab - can anyone confirm this?)
Merrill? 4.71%, but that's non-sweep and requires a $100K min.
I think this is in reference to their Preferred Deposit account. If so, this is only an initial investment min, hence one would conceivably put in $100K then take them out leaving, say, $1 and then add/withdraw funds as needed - manually, as this is indeed a non-sweep account. I believe they also have several sweep accounts paying 5.17% atm, but these require a greater commitment shown here.
The Preferred Deposit disclosure does not seem to require maintaining any particular balance. However, minimum additional deposits must be at least $1K and withdrawals must be in whole dollars. In addition, only whole dollars of interest are automatically deposited. The remaining cents go into your core ("Primary") account. https://olui2.fs.ml.com/Publish/Content/application/pdf/GWMOL/PreferredDepositDisclosure-446700PM.pdf
The "greater commitment" is paying Merrill to manage your money. Footnote (1):
[Your account must be enrolled in] (1) the Merrill Lynch Investment Advisory Program, (2) the Merrill Lynch Strategic Portfolio Advisor Service; (3) the Merrill Lynch Managed Account Service; (4) the BlackRock Private Investors Service; (5) the Merrill Guided Investing Program; (6) the Merrill Guided Investing with Advisor Program; [or] (7) the Merrill Edge Advisory Account program.
If you're going to make that sort of commitment, then you might as well pay Vanguard 0.30% for its hybrid advisory service - that will get you phone call service even if you're not calling about a transaction. And you won't have to pay extra for it. (Vanguard's announcements including restricting phone service to calls about trades and adding a $25 charge.)
Incidentally, I was also told that one can trade against their mm fund balance at Merrill - the same way one can do, say, at Schwab - can anyone confirm this?)
Was Schwab a guess or have you done this? Fidelity does this automatically, though I'm not clear on their order of precedence if one has multiple MMFs in the same account.
If Merrill does offer this, it is not automatic. My account shows an available trading balance of essentially zero, even though I have several dollars in a MMF. A test trade for a share of stock costing less than my MMF balance returns:
"This order entered exceeds the maximum trade value for this account."
In addition to your Primary Money Account, you may be able to choose additional cash sweep options or “manual alternatives” that provide automatic withdrawal/redemption only. Depending on your account type, manual alternatives may include bank deposit programs, money market mutual funds or the Insured Savings Account (ISA®),1 a limited transaction deposit program.
@yugo, "Incidentally, I was also told that one can trade against their mm fund balance at Merrill - the same way one can do, say, at Schwab - can anyone confirm this?)"
That would be Fidelity, NOT Schwab. I have to move $s manually at Schwab as its m-mkt funds settle T+1.
FWIW: In 27 years, Schwab has never pushed anything on me, nor even hinting at it with one exception: They did when they came out with their "Robo Advisor" 8-10 years ago.
I told them I was not at all interested, and they've never brought it up again.
Comments
I stayed away from participating on this and other threads discussing about Vanguard's negative virtues but your post prompted me to share my experience. I have a 7 figure account with Vanguard, which is my first investment account opened 30 years ago. While all brokerages' service quality has dropped since beginning of Covid, many are slowly recovering. Vanguard service quality stunk for more than 5 years and does not show any promise of abating. Rich folk do not care about costs of their investments but they care about total returns and quality of service is why they put their money in venture capital, private equity, and other structured products. Costs are important to the tiny investors that presumably (according to you) Vanguard is trying to restrict / kick out. I do not mind paying to encourage the tiny investor. Over the years, I sent many written suggestions to Vanguard to improve their service quality and then decided to keep my silence. Vanguard has a culture problem and has become the Boeing of investment firms.
Please see my previous post for what I am doing now.
Well, I guess that really nails it.
- vanguard themselves added the burden of tens of millions of small accounts by relentless promotion of index products, lower minimums, and lower ER.
they need to cover this burden, in addition to their generous 'not-for-profit' salaries, perks, and campus expansions.
- vanguard services\tools\fees have gotten worse for all clients.
i would say the impact is more for HNW , since some of these were never free for small accounts in the first place.
so i guess it is a form of democratization of the investing experience, but not one of pride.
on a side note, peter zeihan predicts a massive decline in employment in the financial services sector for ~10 years as retirees draw down and shift to lower risk non-equity vehicles. this will not reverse until the greatest wealth inheritance transfer in history slowly begins.
so expect the worst companies to get much worse.
I learned today that they are not just poor in service quality but also behave like an autocratic government.
Those of you that transferred out taxable accounts, could you please share your experience about transfer of cost basis info? (My apologies if I am asking you to relive a pain you suffered in the process.)
@randynevin wrote that Vanguard provides excellent products at competitive prices. True enough, and the main reason to have an account at Vanguard. All the brokerages have been pushing people toward digital "solutions" and away from human interaction. It used to be that a Flagship customer at Vanguard was assigned a specific rep. But it also used to be that a Private Client customer at Fidelity was assigned a specific rep. No more at either brokerage.
Fidelity can't even seem to assign me a "team" at its closest location any more. It used to be that a Fidelity team (formerly an individual rep) stayed with you for several years. These days, the turnover there is much quicker. Everyone seems to be moving in the wrong direction, even if Vanguard seems to be moving that way a little faster.
High Net Worth? Years ago, Vanguard introduced 8 free trades/year for Flagship customers. Both stock and TF fund trades were counted against those 8 trades. Then it upped the free trade allotment to 25/year. Then it eliminated stock commissions, so Flagship customers got 25 free TF fund trades/year regardless of any stock/ETF trades they make. A nice little perk moving in the right direction. A number of people have said that Schwab will cut some deals here, but you have to negotiate this.
Quality of execution ought to be high on the list of cost concerns. Vanguard, like Fidelity and Merrill does not receive payment for order flow - so it gets good price improvement. That's not changing.
Admiral shares? A long time ago, Vanguard treated index funds the same as actively managed funds - the entry level share class was Investor shares. Once Vanguard lowered the min for the Admiral share class of index funds to $3K, index fund Admiral shares became Investor shares in all but name. Consequently, restrictions on Admiral shares now apply only to actively managed funds' Admiral shares. One can usually transfer them to other brokerages but not buy additional shares.
ADR fees charged by a custodian are part of the ADR product and as Vanguard clearly states: "Banks that custody ADRs are permitted to charge ADR holders certain fees, as detailed in the ADR prospectuses." Vanguard is not trying to grab part of this any more than it is trying to grab part of the management fees of third party funds. Rather, it is adding a fee for processing divs from ADRs held in VBS accounts.
A feature Vanguard added recently is a bank sweep yielding 4.7% APY. That's still about 1/2% below what it pays on MMFs, but if one wants FDIC-insured cash at a brokerage, that may be better than anyone else is offering. Schwab? Not even worth looking up. Fidelity? 2.72%. Merrill? 4.71%, but that's non-sweep and requires a $100K min. Otherwise it's 3.54%. SoFi? 4.60%, but only if you have direct deposit, else 1.2%.
Not every change at Vanguard is in the wrong direction. Though unfortunately, most of them are.
That's what happened to me at some point when I transferred Wellesley from VG to Schwab.
I can't buy anymore shares?
Okay, fine. I sold all of VWIAX last year, and have no VG holdings at all any more. There are always alternatives to one's favorite fund, which may be just as good or maybe even better.
https://thefinancebuff.com/steps-before-transfer-from-vanguard.html
Let me add: At 2:08 A.M. today Schwab noted by e-mail my monthly statement was up for viewing. I hope I didn't keep Chuck up to late !
I had an open sell one Vanguard mutual fund and buy another Vanguard mutual fund order for the same amount. I submitted the transfer request during after hours after my trade orders were placed. When the transfer request was received the following morning, Vanguard promptly cancelled my buy order, without cancelling the sell order and did not send me a notification of their action. I logged into my account around 2:30PM and saw what happened and tried to cancel the sell order using the cancel button next to the order because I did not want to be out of the market. I spent about 40 minutes after that with a Vanguard rep to get the sell order cancelled or in the alternative, to reinstate my buy order. Vanguard refused to do either on the pretext that once a transfer request was received they will not let me buy any new mutual fund and that the cut off time to cancel a buy or sell Vanguard mutual fund order is 2:15 PM and I am not allowed to cancel the sell order.
I remember having a conversation with a Vanguard rep a few months ago about cancelling Vanguard mutual fund orders and she said the cut off time is 3PM but that if I had to cancel after that time I could call them and they will try on a good efforts basis. What is bizarre is there is an active cancel button next to my resting sell order and it allowed me to click on it but there was no resulting action. I asked the rep why they have an active cancel button if they will not allow me to use it. He said that is just technology deficiency and he will be happy to send the client feedback but that does not change the cut off time to cancel is 2:15 PM.
I will not become poor because of this situation. I have a very short memory for bad experiences but Vanguard made sure that I will never forget how they handled the situation.
Somewhat relatedly (but a tangent, I admit) yesterday ATT dropped all their consumer plans down a tier in terms of QCI service levels just so they could launch their 'Turbo' feature on their highest plan which essentially brings you back to where you were last month in terms of service during congestion/peak times. For only $7 more per month, I might add. So in essence they're jacking prices on that plan $7 without coming out and saying it. A total sleeze move and money grab.
In the case you described, "Exchange" would have worked fine for simultaneous overnight exchange. If "Exchange" involves non-VG fund(s), it may take 2 days, one day to sell, another to buy.
It may be similar at other brokers for sell and buy orders of equal amounts when there isn't cash in a cash a/c. No problems in margin a/c.
For fair disclosure, I am a decent size customer at Vanguard, Fido, Schwab, TIAA. When they do something I don't like, I make a point to tell them how others do it. And when they pitch me to consolidate, I LECTURE them about their problematic stuff. When I get too old, I may change this, but at 75+, I can handle it/them.
Vanguard and other brokers will do a same day exchange of third party funds if the two funds are within the same family. Here's Vanguard's 3rd party fund transaction page (login required):
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/TradeTicket?investmentType=FUND_ACCESS_MUTUAL_FUND
Under transaction type, one can select "Exchange (sell funds to buy funds)"
If you enter a non-Vanguard fund to sell and a non-Vanguard fund of the same family to buy, you'll be able to "Continue" to the next page. But if you enter a non-Vanguard fund to sell and a fund from a different family to buy, you get the error message:
The fund being purchased must be from the same fund family and within the same share class as the fund being redeemed.
That tells you that the intra-family exchanges are not merely sequential buy and sell orders, but true exchanges. Just as if you were invested directly with a fund family and did a same-day exchange there. (As I recall, in the early days of fund supermarkets, you couldn't enter third party fund exchanges like this.)
If you want to place separate buy and sell orders, you can do that too, even simultaneously (same day). Sequential execution is not required. However, Vanguard rightly warns you on the purchase order that you had better have the money in the account when the purchase settles: This DIY flexibility is something that Fidelity does not offer. One must place a same-day cross-family order at Fidelity by phone, and one is restricted to 90% of the value of the fund being sold.
It's a good thing that one can do this online at Vanguard because calling them to make a trade will soon cost $25 unless one is at the Flagship ($1M) level.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargardt_disease#:~:text=However, perimetry and microperimetry studies,and life expectancy is normal.
and is losing his vision. He barely can log into his Vanguard account (will not be able to in a year or so) and can't facilitate the handful of trades his does per year online. And now Vanguard is going to penalize him for his disability?
In comparison, Fidelity charges for fund trades over the phone:
- Fidelity funds - no charge
- Automated (FAST®): 0.5625% of principal, maximum $187.50, minimum $75
- Rep-assisted: 0.75% of principal, maximum $250, minimum $100
https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/Brokerage_Commissions_Fee_Schedule.pdf
https://investor.vanguard.com/trust-security/accessibility
The local Schwab guy cold-called me last week, just to see how I was doing. Hadn't had contact with him in over a year, as I normally don't have any reason to.
I asked him specifically about this potential problem. He said they have people there that will do it, plus they can recommend local independent financial firms who will do it. I knew they are out there, but who to trust? But if Schwabbie recommends them, they are more than likely going to be fine.
It was a relief to hear that.
https://www.thinkadvisor.com/2024/05/02/vanguard-adds-fees-for-some-brokerage-services/
@msf did they also used to assign another kind of "specific rep" as well?
Alas, I guess this is one of the reasons that Fidelity is raising transaction fees on Vanguard and Dodge & Cox funds.
Then the musical chairs began. No title changes, but in the span of three years, three different "Financial Consultants". Then a year later, when the last one left Fidelity, I was not assigned any specific rep, whatever title you wish to give to them.
What about a non-retirement account? In the past I have redeemed all my shares in certain mutual funds (both Vanguard and not) and the account has remained open with no money in it. That has been the actual case at Vanguard for years for me. I never requested that the account be closed and so it wasn't. If I redeem all shares of a Vanguard fund that does have money invested in it and don't request that the account be closed I wonder if they will steal, er, I mean keep, $100 of my money. Why would anyone insist that an account be closed anyway? AND, they don't say that the fee will be charged. They say that it "may" be charged.
With that said, we have invested with Vanguard for over 30 years for our retirement and college 529 plans. And now, we use Vanguard’s advisory service. For Flagship customers, there is a special phone number that speeds up the connection. At the same time, we have equally size of asset at Fidelity and the combination of the two provide the best of both world, at least for us.
In my case, I was offered an individual PSA several times, but declined because I thought it might lead to more marketing, to which I am quite averse. Finally, something made me try, so I just let them know and was promptly assigned one. I think this is in reference to their Preferred Deposit account. If so, this is only an initial investment min, hence one would conceivably put in $100K then take them out leaving, say, $1 and then add/withdraw funds as needed - manually, as this is indeed a non-sweep account. I believe they also have several sweep accounts paying 5.17% atm, but these require a greater commitment shown here.
(To be clear, I've never had a Merrill account before but have recently decided to try them out and am in the process of transferring some funds over. The above information has been confirmed with a phone rep, but I have not had a chance to verify it myself.
Btw, so far I have found their customer service to be surprisingly helpful and competent, though I have only had minor issues to address until now. One odd thing I've encountered with Merrill is that they do not allow you to ACAT in-kind any money market funds - even those that Merrill itself offers - which is a bit of a nuisance, iyam.
Incidentally, I was also told that one can trade against their mm fund balance at Merrill - the same way one can do, say, at Schwab - can anyone confirm this?)
https://olui2.fs.ml.com/Publish/Content/application/pdf/GWMOL/PreferredDepositDisclosure-446700PM.pdf
The same is true of MMFs that accept only whole dollar amounts (that's based on experience). The MMFs that have this restriction are those that settle same-day. See here:
https://olui2.fs.ml.com/Mutualfunds/MFBDCashManagement.aspx
The "greater commitment" is paying Merrill to manage your money. Footnote (1): If you're going to make that sort of commitment, then you might as well pay Vanguard 0.30% for its hybrid advisory service - that will get you phone call service even if you're not calling about a transaction. And you won't have to pay extra for it. (Vanguard's announcements including restricting phone service to calls about trades and adding a $25 charge.) Was Schwab a guess or have you done this? Fidelity does this automatically, though I'm not clear on their order of precedence if one has multiple MMFs in the same account.
If Merrill does offer this, it is not automatic. My account shows an available trading balance of essentially zero, even though I have several dollars in a MMF. A test trade for a share of stock costing less than my MMF balance returns:
"This order entered exceeds the maximum trade value for this account."
Here's an older (2016) disclosure that suggests automatic withdrawals may be possible. Note that I've not found any newer disclosure with this info, and the latest (2024) sweep program guide has no mention of this feature.
https://olui2.fs.ml.com/publish/content/application/pdf/GWMOL/Sweep-Program.pdf
Finally, you may find this thread on MyMoneyBlog helpful:
https://www.mymoneyblog.com/merrill-edge-brokerage-cash-sweep-options.html
That would be Fidelity, NOT Schwab.
I have to move $s manually at Schwab as its m-mkt funds settle T+1.
I told them I was not at all interested, and they've never brought it up again.