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"Our service is terrible but we'll charge you $100 to transfer your account."
New from Vanguard: "Account closure and transfer fee: A $100 processing fee may be charged for account closure or transfer of account assets to another firm."
TRP’s might read, “We’ll transfer your funds, but our check may bounce.”
I’ve run into account closure fees at different fund houses before. $100 is exorbitant. But recent inflation distorts our perceptions. Looked at new cars lately?
@chang Would they really have no yearly fee for this plan of yours?. If not how long will it last? I closed my 40 plus year Vanguard account to E-trade last year because of all the nardly issues previously noted on the board. So that move was timely and saved me the $100. What really got my gourd was the $25/ yearly fee I paid for mailed statements even with a multi 6 figure account. I have no regrets at all and the customer service is now much ,much better
And soon to get worse. One of the changes effective July 1 is:
VBS reserves the right to resolve Non-Trade Inquiries exclusively on its website or other available channels as opposed to providing such information by phone.
And let's not forget to blame the victim for poor phone service (if it's even provided):
You understand that excessive reliance on Our phone associates for tasks that can be accomplished online may negatively impact Your customer service experience, including but not limited to delayed response times, additional fees, and possible Account termination.
That's a question best put to Schwab. I have been able to transfer Admiral shares of non-index funds to Merrill.
In addition to live accounts at Vanguard, I also have a couple of dead (empty) ones there that I haven't gotten around to closing. I wonder if Vanguard will charge me $100 to close those empty accounts that are just taking up space in its database?
Schwab let me transfer Admiral shares and when I asked nicely, my account rep eliminated the fee to purchase more, but this may depend on the size of all your accounts
No, that's probably a special redeactivation situation which they won't talk to you about on the phone because that may negatively impact your customer service experience but triggers a special redeactivation assessment fee, the amount of which is only made available after you try to close the account.
@MSF. I read the update links you noted. I wonder how many will actually read them and get caught up in this web of customer malfeasance. And how many more will transfer or close their accounts? Does Vanguard care? I think not. I was able to transfer my Admiral funds but eventually found comparable Vanguard or other company ETF's that I switched the funds into, if the capital gains were not much of a factor. Thanks for the links!
I had VWIAX at VG, but moved it to my existing Schwab account around 2015. I sold it last fall and have no VG holdings. From all the negative comments I hear online, I'll probably never have any again.
Thanks, Guys, for the replies. I now see the email I would have ignored if not for the thread. Submitted a request at Schwab to pull the Vanguard account. VANGUARD BROKERAGE SERVICES (ACAT) DTC 0062.
I would take a picture of the account holdings and shares when you submit the request to transfer so it is easier to check when they arrive at the destination.
Vanguard's funds are overwhelmingly low-cost. However, it feels as though investors are now being nickled and dimed by Vanguard Brokerage Services. A $100 account closure and transfer fee is excessive IMHO. Also, is it customary for other brokerages to impose fees for ADR and foreign security dividends?
ADR? Yes, In my experience. TRP took 25% of a dividend, but the explanation was that it was withheld "at the source." Meaning the Norway Tax Authority. b>NHYDY. Yes, a partial or full refund was available. But you'll have to register with the Tax Authority in order to do it. TRP did not charge a fee. But they do not manage their own trades. They "clear" through Pershing.
Schwab tells me a different ADR (HQ in Luxembourg) will have 15% of dividends withheld by the foreign entity. As long as the stock makes me money, I'm willing to eat that much. TS....And I've been advised that the bank which oversees that ADR might charge a fee. We'll see about that, and whether or not it's a deal-breaker.
If a foreign country doesn't have a tax agreement with the U.S., it will withold a percentage of a U.S. investor's foreign dividends. This is different than a brokerage imposing fees for ADR / foreign security dividends.
Most incoming brokerages if you ask, will refund a transfer fee. Still Vanguard imho has become unfriendly to the small investor (under 5 million) in many ways. Their funds are available at other brokerages (Firstrade, Allyy invest, Etrade for example) NTF so no one has to be beholden to them.
"Vanguard imho has become unfriendly to the small investor"
Well, that happened a long time ago. Some were just drinking its PR coolaid of "low-cost" and being "owned by shareholders" BS. Of course, VG must have polled its shareholders for their opinions ahead? (Rhetorical, because as a VG "shareholder", I know the answer)
Vanguard's funds are overwhelmingly low-cost. However, it feels as though investors are now being nickled and dimed by Vanguard Brokerage Services. A $100 account closure and transfer fee is excessive IMHO. Is it customary for other brokerages to impose fees for ADR and foreign security dividends?
Nickeled and dimed? Absolutely. It's beginning to feel like the airlines.
A quick search doesn't turn up a similar fee at other brokerages. Perhaps I could understand a fee for processing divs from a foreign security, but ADRs are securities issued by American banks (hence the 'A' in ADR) and the bank handles currency issues on divs. Nothing tricky here, just something for Vanguard to hang a fee on.
There are some real fees charged on ADRs, but these are charged before divs reach the brokerage. That's different. From Vanguard's Schedule of Commissions and Fees:
[Fees on] ADRs: Banks that custody ADRs are permitted to charge ... certain fees .... "Pass through" ADR fees are collected from [the brokerage account] by the Depository Trust Company (DTC)
In addition, and perhaps unique to Vanguard is this new ADR fee:
[Fees on] foreign securities and ADR dividends: Vanguard Brokerage charges a fee of 1% on the gross dividend amount ... paid on a foreign or ADR asset held in US dollars
An oddity on dates is that this fee schedule is "Effective July 1, 2024", but contains a fee (tax filings for MLPs in IRAs) that is "Effective June 1, 2024". Perhaps that increase should also be stated in a separate document that's effective June 1?
"Vanguard imho has become unfriendly to the small investor"
Well, that happened a long time ago. Some were just drinking its PR coolaid of "low-cost" and being "owned by shareholders" BS. Of course, VG must have polled its shareholders for their opinions ahead? (Rhetorical, because as a VG "shareholder", I know the answer)
You are right that it happened a long time ago. I remember back when Vanguard Primecap closed in 2004 but they allowed their Flagship clients with money, to purchase more on a yearly basis.
It's not 'Admiral' status that restricts transfer, but some rule regarding certain active managed funds such as some by Primecap. Odds are that if purchases of those have restrictions other than a min amt floor, transfers are prohibited. These are the golden handcuffs.
Speaking of guessing their rules, Vanguard has never published rules for ADR fees by their custodial bank, but looks like they themselves now want an explicit cut. I remember once getting a fixed fee of $25 on a $40 special dividend. (tax with-held is separate)
I wonder if any vanguard employees ever lurk on MFO, as they have on bogleheads.
I'm sorry some of you have had poor experiences with Vanguard. Our experiences have been exactly the opposite. We have had accounts with Vanguard for 30+ years and have received excellent support. I don't want newbies reading this thread to think Vanguard is uniformly bad. They deliver excellent products for extremely competitive prices. Their fee structure may be designed to discourage millions of tiny little accounts, but those are the bane of any mutual fund / etf company.
If a foreign country doesn't have a tax agreement with the U.S., it will withold a percentage of a U.S. investor's foreign dividends. This is different than a brokerage imposing fees for ADR / foreign security dividends.
They actually have a couple of Vanguard funds that I'm very interested in, but I've purposefully waived off and gone with D&C, FPA, etc., because I simply hate dealing with Vanguard.
Flagship client used to mean something. Today it doesn't mean as much. And now you add fees and all of this is happening and I ask you what new services or features or great website user experience or mobile app user experience have they added? Not much at all. Every announcement coming out of Vanguard is either removing features or services making them less desirable or adding fees. I don't know. Someone in PR at Vanguard needs to tell manangement hey how about some good news please. Why don't we talk about what we're going to do for our customers rather than what we're going to charge them and what we're going to take away? Having your accounts at Vanguard is becoming less and less appealing by the day.
Comments
TRP’s might read, “We’ll transfer your funds, but our check may bounce.”
I’ve run into account closure fees at different fund houses before. $100 is exorbitant. But recent inflation distorts our perceptions. Looked at new cars lately?
Better get out while the getting is good
This might be the final nail in the Vanguard coffin for me
And soon to get worse. One of the changes effective July 1 is: And let's not forget to blame the victim for poor phone service (if it's even provided): Here are the updates to the Vanguard Brokerage Account Agreement:
https://personal1.vanguard.com/pdf/vbaamd.pdf
Also, the brokerage commission and fee schedule commencing July 1:
https://personal1.vanguard.com/pdf/v414.pdf
In addition to live accounts at Vanguard, I also have a couple of dead (empty) ones there that I haven't gotten around to closing. I wonder if Vanguard will charge me $100 to close those empty accounts that are just taking up space in its database?
I would take a picture of the account holdings and shares when you submit the request to transfer so it is easier to check when they arrive at the destination.
ALWAYS !
However, it feels as though investors are now being nickled and dimed by Vanguard Brokerage Services.
A $100 account closure and transfer fee is excessive IMHO.
Also, is it customary for other brokerages to impose fees for ADR and foreign security dividends?
Schwab tells me a different ADR (HQ in Luxembourg) will have 15% of dividends withheld by the foreign entity. As long as the stock makes me money, I'm willing to eat that much. TS....And I've been advised that the bank which oversees that ADR might charge a fee. We'll see about that, and whether or not it's a deal-breaker.
If a foreign country doesn't have a tax agreement with the U.S., it will withold a percentage of a U.S. investor's foreign dividends. This is different than a brokerage imposing fees for ADR / foreign security dividends.
Well, that happened a long time ago. Some were just drinking its PR coolaid of "low-cost" and being "owned by shareholders" BS. Of course, VG must have polled its shareholders for their opinions ahead? (Rhetorical, because as a VG "shareholder", I know the answer)
A quick search doesn't turn up a similar fee at other brokerages. Perhaps I could understand a fee for processing divs from a foreign security, but ADRs are securities issued by American banks (hence the 'A' in ADR) and the bank handles currency issues on divs. Nothing tricky here, just something for Vanguard to hang a fee on.
There are some real fees charged on ADRs, but these are charged before divs reach the brokerage. That's different. From Vanguard's Schedule of Commissions and Fees: In addition, and perhaps unique to Vanguard is this new ADR fee: An oddity on dates is that this fee schedule is "Effective July 1, 2024", but contains a fee (tax filings for MLPs in IRAs) that is "Effective June 1, 2024". Perhaps that increase should also be stated in a separate document that's effective June 1?
You are right that it happened a long time ago. I remember back when Vanguard Primecap closed in 2004 but they allowed their Flagship clients with money, to purchase more on a yearly basis.
https://youtu.be/QLBZoqTtQZ4
Odds are that if purchases of those have restrictions other than a min amt floor, transfers are prohibited. These are the golden handcuffs.
Speaking of guessing their rules, Vanguard has never published rules for ADR fees by their custodial bank, but looks like they themselves now want an explicit cut. I remember once getting a fixed fee of $25 on a $40 special dividend.
(tax with-held is separate)
I wonder if any vanguard employees ever lurk on MFO, as they have on bogleheads.
Fidelity list of 0 minimum and 0 E.R. offerings, as well as, very low E.R. offerings.
Scroll down the page link..............
An investor may have decent returns over a long time frame, if they choose to not fiddle too much and 'keep it simple'. Not a bad decision, for sure.
Fidelity wants to build future accounts holders; and obviously does not discourage 'tiny' accounts. I think this is a good strategy.
My 2 cents.
...actually, no I don't.
They actually have a couple of Vanguard funds that I'm very interested in, but I've purposefully waived off and gone with D&C, FPA, etc., because I simply hate dealing with Vanguard.
Paraphrasing here:
Flagship client used to mean something. Today it doesn't mean as much.
And now you add fees and all of this is happening and I ask you what new services or features or great website user experience or mobile app user experience have they added? Not much at all.
Every announcement coming out of Vanguard is either removing features or services making them less desirable or adding fees.
I don't know. Someone in PR at Vanguard needs to tell manangement hey how about some good news please.
Why don't we talk about what we're going to do for our customers rather than what we're going to charge them and what we're going to take away?
Having your accounts at Vanguard is becoming less and less appealing by the day.