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MINT etf versus CD's versus MMK'Ts

Just for the heck of it.....being curious.

MINT, (Pimco Enhanced Short Maturity Active Mg'd) bond etf had a better return in 2023, versus CD's and MMK'Ts; and appears to be on course for 2024 with similar performance results. No, it's not FDIC insured; but is readily bought/sold.
Distributions are monthly.
This etf is best suited inside a tax deferred acct, unless one doesn't mind the taxation at year's end tax time; not unlike CD and MMKT distributions.

--- 2023 return = 6.25%

Well, anyway; one may take a peek and find whether this etf may be a suitable add to a portfolio.

MINT etf M* data. This link is for 'quote' page with various data. Next 'select' performance and then 'portfolio'.

VettaFi profile.

MINT etf at Stock Chart and technical RSI. The RSI at 99.66 for an extended period is one I've not seen before, period. But, this represents the continued strength of investor demand.

PIMCO site.

Comments

  • MINT has always been talked about as a cash-like substitute on this board, since I've been coming here. I've never owned it but do own similar, steady-eddy funds, FLRN and RPHYX in my withdrawal bucket.
  • edited April 22
    If MINT piques your curiosity, consider VRIG as well. For that matter, one might also compare its performance to USFR, PULS, and FLRN. All have a lower expense ratio than MINT, and they made a little money in 2022, which MINT did not.

    VRIG is actively managed, as is PULS, IIRC.

    Happy hunting.

    Edit> Here's a plug for the free quicksearch feature to compare up to five funds.
  • MINT an active ultra-ST bond fund with high ER (what is cheap at Pimco?). I use USFR & ICSH.
  • @catch22 MStar shows a < -2% DD w Div in 2022 - not sure I'd want this instead of a CD or MM fund.

    @yogibearbull Any particular reason you use two different funds?
  • msf
    edited April 27
    Taxes (in taxable accounts):

    - short term (12 mo or less) zeros are taxed only at maturity, so a 9 month instrument purchased in May 2024 will not be taxed until the 2025 tax year. This goes for T-bills and short term CDs that pay interest at maturity.

    - if an ETF or fund (other than a MMF) pays interest periodically, one might choose not to reinvest divs. Otherwise, one could be facing an accounting nightmare when withdrawing cash. There's a significant risk of generating wash sales - sell shares at $10.02 that were purchased at $10.05 (a small loss); then the divs reinvested that month will "wash out" that loss.

    - Treasury funds like USFR are (mostly) state tax-exempt.

    Why multiple funds:

    Floating rate and fixed rate markets (yields) don't move in sync and hard to predict. Likewise treasuries and commercial paper.

    Personally I like RPHIX and FLRN, though FLOT is very close to FLRN. I agree with Yogi that Pimco seems to have higher expense funds. In the past JPST (another fund of this ilk) was more aggressive than ICSH and had done better. Not so since roughly the beginning of 2021 when volatilities were comparable and ICSH returned more.

    Here's Fidelity's comparison of RPHIX, USFR, FLRN, ICSH, and MINT. As conditions shift, the cumulative (e.g. three-year) figures could change significantly. IMHO that's the argument for using multiple types of these funds.
  • I used ICSH for years. USFR was a recent addition. Different approaches to ultra-ST bond funds. On my watch list is JPST if I want another. I never warmed up to MINT.
    These are genuine inv-grade funds. I don't use ST-HY for this purpose, but have IT-HY and multisector bond funds (that have HY).
  • msf: "IMHO that's the argument for using multiple types of these funds."

    Bingo. And you don't have to hold the same ones forever. Re: MINT, this is 2024, not 2022, and it's been steadily outpacing funds like JPST and ICSH. The funds with more corporate holdings have been even better, like FLOT and the often-mentioned VRIG.

    Will the same ultrashort funds be the best in the next three months, the next six months? I doubt it. Who knows; maybe even intermediate core funds will be working by then.

    In the OEF department, SEMRX is more or less in the same vein as the ultrashort etf's. It's the IG offering from the SEMPX gang.
  • edited April 28
    Hi @yugo The beginning of the current near term (looking backwards) change of directions for U.S. equity, CD rates, MMKT rates, ultra short term and related bond funds noted by others began to take shape in 2023. Your note about the return for MINT in 2022 is correct.
    Let us start with Covid period. I'll use Fidelity's core MMKT of SPAXX for notation, but this applies to other fund houses and some of their MMKT's, too.
    During this beginning period, MMKT's and CD's were paying next to nothing in yields/interest, as the Fed. was supporting the economy with low rates. One should probably include the beginning of the Russia invasion of Ukraine in February, 2022 for other disruptive circumstances. As the Covid upwind took place and inflation became a large concern for the Fed.; they/it began rate increases with the goal of chasing the 'dubious' goal of obtaining a 2% inflation rate.

    --- April 2020 - April 2022 nominal interest rates/yields were .1%.
    --- July 2022 found rates near 1%
    --- December 2022 found rates near 2.6%
    --- May 2023 found rates near 4.7%
    --- October 2023 - April 26, 2024 4.96%, + or - .05%

    MINT etf distributions, which are paid monthly; reflect the above changes in interest rates/yields.

    --- April 2020 - April 2022 $.05-$.05 Fully range bound and LOW
    --- As with the above for May 2023 - April 2024, MINT distributions have ranged from $.41 - $.45 (current, April 2024). The yield increase from April, 2022- April, 2024 is a full 800%.

    What do all of these numbers mean??? For conservative investors or investors who desire a portion of their portfolio to be relatively uneventful and still make some decent money, are those who chose to follow the CD's path find yields worth pursuing. MMKT's are worth keeping at the current yields. MINT, IMHO; is worth keeping at this time; as well as other etf's mentioned by others.

    The rotation away from the above areas will 'show' it's face when the Fed. chooses to change it's policy on rates.

    NEXT: Late October of 2023 was the beginning of another 'phase', post Covid and Fed. actions. LQD (IG corp. bonds) does look like much against the other listings in the chart. But, it has tried to perform, now and then. It's included, only for reference of a few other etf total returns for the period. Yes, I'm a growth fan.

    CHART of SPY, QQQ, SMH (semi conductors etf) and LQD (investment grade bonds).

    NOTE: Please make me aware of mistakes or contradictions, as I write this while under the influence of meds. TIS big pollen time in Michigan.

    Remain curious,
    Catch
  • @msf, what do you mean by USFR mostly being state tax-exempt?
  • @Mona, in 2023, USFR income was 99.9868% from US Government obligations (FRNs), and that was exempt from state taxes. The small nonexempt remainder was probably due to operational cash.
  • msf
    edited April 27
    Funds, even "pure" Treasury funds, have some wiggle room to hold some other assets. As noted in the Boglehead thread (see below), WisdomTree doesn't make it easy to find the numbers. But last year, "only" 99.9868% of the income was state tax exempt. I've looked at the referenced spreadsheet and verified this.

    One always needs to check the supporting figures that a fund family publishes at tax time. Once upon a time, VUSXX was 100% (exactly) state-tax-exempt. Vanguard changed the way it managed the fund a couple of years ago. With its wiggle room, only about 80% of the income from that fund was state-exempt last year.

    Boglehead post:
    https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7710372&sid=b5b46754ca9e296f26c5f65246618ac5#p7710372

    WisdomTree spreadsheet:
    https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https://www.wisdomtree.com/investments/-/media/us-media-files/documents/resource-library/fund-reports-schedules/tax-reporting/2023-tax-supplement-report.xlsx&amp;wdOrigin=BROWSELINK
  • @yogibearbull and @msf, thank you.
  • edited April 30
    I was looking at Rate Bump CD at Marcus by GS. It says, "Prior to maturity, you may request a one-time rate increase to the highest APY and interest rate we offer for the same Rate Bump CD term as of the day of your request." [bold added]

    Currently, only a 20 month rate bump CD is offered. How is the rate increase implemented?

    https://www.marcus.com/us/en/savings/ratebumpcd

    P.S.: The APY currently offered on it is the same as that of their savings account. So, may not be particularly attractive, unless rate bump is obtained. I tried to understand by chatting with a Marcus agent. After 30 minutes of going round and round and unable to get a straight answer, I gave up. On earlier occasions, Marcus agents gave me wrong answers over the telephone.

    Thanks for your help.
  • Currently, only a 20 month rate bump CD is offered. How is the rate increase implemented?

    The rate offered on a 20 month bump CD is currently 4.4%. Suppose that come July 2, Marcus changes the rate offered on a new 20 month bump CD to 4.8%. You could request a bump up on that day and receive 4.8% for the remainder of your term.

    This is the way virtually all bump CDs work.
    For example, if you have a two-year CD with a 1% annual percentage yield, or APY, and one year later, the bank pushes rates on new two-year CDs up to 3% APY, you can request the higher rate for the second half of your CD’s term.
    https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/bump-up-cd-step-up-cd
  • edited April 30
    Thanks, @msf. if Marcus offers a different term (not 20 mo) RBCD at a higher rate after one invests in a RBCD, can one still request a bump in rate or does the term of the newer RBCD have to be the same as the RBCD initially invest in?

    The more I think about it the less likely this is going to work because this requires one to keep checking for higher rates and the current rate is too low.

    Unfortunately this is not for my account. In a brokerage account, there are more choices. Call protected brokered CDs from GS have much higher yields.
  • if Marcus offers a different term (not 20 mo) RBCD at a higher rate after one invests in a RBCD, can one still request a bump in rate or does the term of the newer RBCD have to be the same as the RBCD initially invest in?

    You wrote: "'Prior to maturity, you may request a one-time rate increase to the highest APY and interest rate we offer for the same Rate Bump CD term as of the day of your request.' [bold added]"

    I think you answered your own question.

    If in doubt, read the terms of the account. Especially section IV paragraph 5.
    https://www.marcus.com/content/dam/marcus/us/en/pdfs/Marcus_Deposit_Account_Agreement.pdf

    It looks like this particular product has a relatively uncommon feature - the ability to add to the CD at the time you increase the rate.

    In a brokerage account, there are more choices. Call protected brokered CDs from GS have much higher yields

    Rate bump CDs nearly always have lower starting rates than fixed rate CDs of the same term. It couldn't be otherwise, else the rate bump option would be free, and no one would choose the fixed rate CD. A better comparison would be between a GS brokered CD and a Marcus Bank fixed rate CD of the same term.

    For brokered, non-callable GS CDs, I see a 1 year offered at 5.1%, slightly better than the 1 year Marcus Bank CD offered at 5.0%. Not quite an apples-to-apples comparison, but close. One difference is that one risks a substantial haircut in taking an early withdrawal from a brokered CD, while the Marcus CD has a predetermined penalty of 1.25% (90 days simple interest).

    If you are intrigued by bump up CDs, Flatwater Bank in Nebraska offers a 15 month product with an initial fixed rate (APY) of 5.3%. Its bump rate is calculated as the starting rate (here 5.3%) plus "the difference of the Federal Funds Rate on the date of purchase of your CD and the current Federal Funds Rate on the date of bump up".
    https://flatwater.bank/personal/bumpup
  • Like many things in life... simple is better.
  • edited April 30
    Old_Joe said:

    Like many things in life... simple is better.

    Yep. That is what I try to live by for my money / in my life.

    P.S.: 2 yr GS CD: CP brokered CD at Fidelity is at 4.9% vs at Marcus it is 4.2% - no judgement on my part. It is true that reading agreements is essential (rather than rely on customer service reps and marketing notes from companies); E.g., I have been making sure to keep a higher minimum balance in my regular bank account to avoid monthly fees until I read the agreement over the weekend and realized I could just set up a recurring $1 per month ACH transfer from my brokerage to my bank account and have no minimum balance requirement.
  • MINT sure has done nicely the last year (~6.5%) and ytd. For simplicity, speaking of which, if with slightly lower returns, I use only FZDXX at Fido and FIGXX at ML, the latter of which outperforms there for some reason (with highish ER, no less), ~5-1/4% the last year.
  • Always favored VNLA in this space.
  • New MM rules coming later this year. I think these were covered in the forum before. Article does not appear to be behind paywall as I was able to read - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-08/money-funds-start-shuffling-assets-ahead-of-sec-rule-changes
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