I should have listened - any interaction with TRP is fraught with peril, even moving assets into TRP.
I was just rearranging accounts, and it seemed to make sense to consolidate my TRP fund shares there to keep free M* access. At least until M* retail customer features finish self-destructing. I would be transferring shares of a TRP fund I didn't already hold at TRP. Also a small amount of cash.
1. First attempt: move fund shares in kind into the mutual fund (not brokerage) side.
a. TRP won't let you create a new fund position via a transfer. So I did a small exchange within TRP to create a position into which to transfer the shares.
b. I filled out the fund transfer form with full fund account number including the hyphen and digit at the end. TRP accepted this form as correct.
c. TRP filled in its part of the transfer form but excluded the hyphen and digit from the account number in its section.
d. Transfer was rejected (after many days) because account numbers didn't match.
TRP subsequently told me that the hyphen and digit are not part of the account numbers. It was my fault for including them.
2. Second attempt: open TRP brokerage account and do an ACAT transfer.
a. This took a couple of weeks but shares were now on brokerage side.
b. TRP told me that the TRP fund position would be moved automatically over to fund side where I could exchange funds.
c. Transfer was not automatic, I could not move shares online, I could not exchange shares.
d. Phone call, manual intervention, shares finally moved to fund side.
3. Third attempt: use small amount of cash in outside brokerage to buy more shares of existing TRP fund position at TRP.
a. TRP told me to use mutual fund transfer form and write "CASH" for the fund being transferred.
b. TRP forwarded form to outside brokerage indicating that check was to be mailed to TRP.
c. Three weeks after submitting form to TRP, and two weeks after outside brokerage had mailed a check, nothing. TRP said I should wait longer - after all, there were weekends and holidays during those two weeks. Give it another three business days.
d. Check was still "in the mail". TRP said there was nothing it could do. I would have to contract the brokerage to have it reissue the check that TRP, not I, requested from them. I had TRP do a three way call.
e. Current ETA is another three weeks - a couple of days to stop payment, get the money back in the account, reissue check. After that, another 10-12 business days according to TRP. The outside brokerage said they could not send the money by ACH or wire or ACAT because all they could do was resend the check as originally requested.
6-7 weeks to transfer cash! TRP even suggested that the mail between Florida and Baltimore was slow. I guess there's a lot of traffic on I-95.
Comments
Here's the mutual fund transfer in kind form I used (see section 1 asking for account numbers). T Rowe Price adds another page when it requests the transfer from an outside brokerage. On that form, T. Rowe Price fills in 0123456789 only.
https://www.troweprice.com/content/dam/iinvestor/Forms/TransferInKindFormJuly2006.pdf
Seriously … I’m convinced that moving from TRP to a Fido brokerage account several years ago took 2-3 years off my life. Horrendous experience.
And @msf, traffic here between DC and Baltimore on I-95 really does suck during the workweek.....
You noted: Seriously … I’m convinced that moving from TRP to a Fido brokerage account several years ago took 2-3 years off my life. Horrendous experience.
Horrendous regarding which organization? Thank you.
Disclaimer: our house has been a Fido only customer since 1978.
Thanks for the ”catch” Catch. Some may remember the episode from about 3 years ago. In fact, you were one of the members who answered technical questions and provided encouragement.
- In the first half of 2021 I initiated a transfer of assets from TRP to Fidelity (cash method).
- A paper check from TRP arrived at Fido after about 2-3 weeks.
- Fido opened an account and
depositedcredited the proceeds from this check.- I than purchased several different funds.
- 1-2 days later TRP cancelled the check (refused to pay).
- I learned of this only after Fido had sold the funds I’d purchased (at a loss to me).
- Fido notified me I was in violation of SEC rules (“free-riding”) and their own policies as well.
- I struggled for answers with a number TRP’s (mostly inept) phone reps over several days.
- 15-20 minute phone “holds” in the middle of discussions were common over this period.
- TRP admitted error, apologized and said they would rectify it.
- After 7-10 days another check from TRP arrived at Fidelity.
- All 4 of my accounts (Roth, Trad, 2 TOD) were placed on 90 day probation.
- Being on probation prevents using / reinvesting / proceeds from sales of investments for a number of days (until after Fido receives the funds). Further “infractions” could lead to being bared from trading.
Arrrgh!
I suppose that technically it’s not really a “deposit” until the check clears the bank. Fidelity sent me a copy of the original paper check from TRP. The bank Fidelity attempted to deposit it at had returned it to them. On the front were stamped words to the effect - “Issuer declined to pay.”
I appreciated all the help & support from a number of board members both on the discussion board and through private contacts (summer of ‘21). It really was a horrendous experience. TRP had held the bulk of my life savings up to then (north of 60%).
I chose not do do an in-kind transfer on that first one that hit the “snag.” I felt there might be a big difference between the sale price (NAV) at TRP and the “buy price” when completed. In hindsight, that did not seem to be a problem with later in-kind transfers. From what I can recall those went from the earlier custodian to Fido overnight. So nothing was gained or lost in the process.
FWIW - I spoke frequently with Fido reps during the roughly week-long ordeal. They were understanding to a point. They did refund any early redemption fees they had charged on the forced sales, which was nice. But they wouldn’t budge on the issue of 90 days probation.
Live and learn. / What doesn’t break you makes you stronger. (Hemingwayesque)
Speaking of Hemingway:
“The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry.”
- A Farewell to Arms
A transfer "in-kind" means that the security itself is being transferred - there is no sell and buy. The "transfer" of course is merely some bookkeeping legerdemain. If it's an ACAT transfer, electronic records are adjusted as needed. If not, then there is some actual paperwork that needs to be shuffled around and that can take several weeks. Still, no sale and repurchase.
In all cases I filled out Fidelities forms directing them to initiate the transfers. They have all gone off w/o a hitch maybe (probably) because I stayed out of the process.
ACAT transfers can be initiated by brokerages but not by mutual fund companies. That's why a transfer into TRP's mutual fund platform can take so long. Mutual fund families can respond to an ACAT transfer request, though. So it can be faster to transfer funds out of TRP than into TRP (if not using its brokerage platform).
My experience of Fidelity's website is: Run away! Run away, and be very afraid!
Complicated, clunky.
Whatever.....
Fidelity's website is vastly superior to Vanguard's website in my opinion.
I used to have others, closed them all and used only these 2. I always initiated it from the receiving brokerage and both paid me for any expenses.
The process is easy, quick and can be done online without forms.
If a fund I want to own is not available, I don't own it.
I don't know about Fidelity, but I've never had any problems at Schwab. But then, perhaps some of the transactions discussed above are more complex than mine.
I do not have a single complaint against Fido or buying funds through a brokerage account vs directly. Be reasonable. Study the (nearly infinate) choices. Spread it around among different fund companies - taking the best per your needs each has to offer. Don’t be greedy. And, as always, stick to a plan.
The cash transfer completed yesterday. The first check was issued on Jan 4. The stop payment was issued on Jan 24. The money was credited back to the brokerage on Jan 25. The brokerage took seven calendar days (5 business days) after that to reissue the check on Feb 1.
Then, miraculously, that paper check made it through the mail and was received and processed by T. Rowe Price all within one day. On Feb 2, the cash received was used to invest in a T. Rowe Price fund.
Cost of delay (market rise)? $100+ That's not going to break the bank but it's more than a few bucks.
It makes one wonder about what one is told. It took a week, not a couple of days, to reissue the check. It took one day, not 10-12 business days for the money to arrive after that. Did the cash really go by paper check?