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@hank, do what you're comfortable doing. Plunking down 10K in one shot is a lot of money for some of us here. Nothing wrong with dipping a toe in for free when you can.
Thanks @Observant1 - Sounds like we got the bases covered, Will check the AIP.
I should have added, it’s much more likely to have to sell a portion of this fund (no charge) as needs arise rather than buy back in ($49.99 fee). It’s pretty stable, so that there shouldn’t be a lot of rebalancing out/in/out. It’s part of the more stable “Let ‘em ride” segment of portfolio.
Due to a couple of bone-headed moves, I ended up with both institutional (TF) and retail (NTF) of the same fund at Schwab (not Lazard). I asked to have the retail shares, which carried a much higher ER, converted to institutional. The Schwab rep figured out how to do so I would have no taxable event, but they did charge me 49.95 as if I had bought the institutional shares in the first place. The size of the consolidated position and the difference in the ERs made it worthwhile for me. It is true that I would get nicked again if I want to add to the position. Seems that GLFOX and GLFIX are NTF and TF, respectively, chez Chuck.
Every fund and every broker handles these things differently.
I once owned a BlackRock fund, service class shares, at Fidelity. That was the lowest ER noload share class I could buy. Once the (slightly cheaper) A shares were offered NTF, I asked Fidelity to convert the shares. They said that BlackRock wouldn't allow this. (Since this was a taxable account, I couldn't just sell and repurchase on my own without consequences.)
Gradually I liquidated the position over a few years, for other reasons.
Don’t talk to me about “bone-headed moves”. I actually bought a small amount of something I’d only meant to check the price & minimum investment amount on at Fidelity not long ago. Still don’t understand how I put the damn order through.
(But it did go up a bit over the 2-3 days I owned it.)
Been there, done that ! Comes under, shit happens !
OMG same.
Years ago, just before the GFC, I remember suddenly being long 16 futures contracts instead of 4 b/c I never got a confirmation back and kept refreshing the screen on the ramshackle Java-based active trading platform I was using. About 15 minutes later I nearly died when I was in such a large (an unexpected) position , which I promptly liquidated completely before catching my breath....thankfully the market remained relatively flat during that period of confusion.
To my then-broker's credit, they credited me the few hundred bucks' I was down, plus the commissions, b/c I proved, and they confirmed, the problem was due to their platform. I was relieved, to say the least ... but rarely used that system again.
Boneheadedness? You can’t touch this. A couple of years ago, when I had a TDA account (now closed), I had an excellent Hermes Federated MM fund that paid the highest yield around (MMPXX maybe, I don’t recall). One day I was moving spare cash into it, and made a miscalculation. I bought $50,000 too much — on margin. I didn’t realize it until about two months later, after I noticed a whopping margin interest charge.
I contacted my TDA rep and explained that it was obviously a mistake — *nobody* would buy a MM fund on margin. He was nice enough to waive all the interest charges.
Boneheadedness? Yeah, count me in too. Too many stupid things to even remember. I imagine all of us (with the possible exception of FD) have done dumb stuff from time to time.
Boneheadedness? Yeah, count me in too. Too many stupid things to even remember. I imagine all of us (with the possible exception of FD) have done dumb stuff from time to time.
I'd say almost every investor has made mistakes at some point. I've made my fair share over the years! Hopefully, investor's mistakes were not catastrophic. For example, having a large percentage of wealth in one stock which later goes bankrupt or selling equities after they were crushed during the GFC and staying out of the market for years. Live and learn...
"I'd say almost every investor has made mistakes at some point."
Interestingly, I continue to make mistakes - thankfully, every time, it is a new mistake! Sometimes I wonder how is it possible for so many mistakes to exist? I made a new one last Thursday. Unfortunately, they all add up over time. If there is ever a good time to make mistakes, I think it is in a bull market where mistakes are easily forgiven and cost less.
Anyone else care to go to confession ?! Have a nice Sunday, Derf
Say 3 "Buy, Buy, Buys!" and 2 "Hold Hold Holds!" followed by a recitation of the "Whipsaw Song" and be absolved of your confessed investing sins. In the name of The Buyer, The Seller, and the Market Maker. Amen.
P/E is still high, but reasonable compared to the others I've inspected. ALL of them are just pretty rich. The company has lately divested from some diversified arrangements. One was with Enable, together with ET. Now, the focus is solely on electricity generation. Share price is at fair value right now, per M*.
.25 sounds like a lot. And it is with really large amounts that are left untouched out to 5 or 10 years. For lesser amounts:
$20,000 invested 1 year would earn roughly an additional … $50
$50,000 .………..1 year ……………………………………….. $125
$75,000 …………1 year………………………………..…..…. $187.50
What will the above extra return buy?
$50 - A 750 ml bottle of Johnny Walker Double-Black blended Scotch whisky - including state tax.
$125 - A nice upgrade from your $500 dollar a night room at a Manhattan hotel to a “corner view.”
$187.50 - Taxi fare from LGA to Manhattan and back - including driver tips.
Not sure what you're looking at there.
Per portfolio visualizer, the difference on 20K between GLIFX and GLOFX from January 2022 to June 2023 is 82 bucks. That .25 saves on the downside too. GLIFX lost 1.3% in 2022 vs 1.55% for GLOFX.
@WABC - Thanks. Just onndering if this was a misprint / typo: “ … the difference on 20K between GLIFX and GLOFX from January 2022 to June 2023 is 82 bucks … “
That might appear to be an 18 month period. Even than, the higher earnings are a bit more than I’d expect based on a difference of .25% ER. ($82 / $75)
What I did for a one year time frame was simply multiply the .25% difference in ER by the invested sum. That should, ISTM, produce a reasonably accurate difference in investor return. For longer terms the results would be less accurate because of the compounding effect.
$1,000 X 0.0025 = $2.50
$20,000 X 0.0025 = $550.00
Don’t know. I’m not very familiar with the source you are referencing. Maybe others have sharper insights on this than I.
I’m not sure how you’re coming up with the higher sum for 1 year. Don’t read the numbers on the far right. They are for a longer time period. The chart is truly interactive. So, you can tap anywhere along the horizontal lines representing each fund and pull up the values on any date you want.
What you need to do is tap along the two colored lines about 2/3 of the way across. Dates and corresponding total investment amount will come up for each fund. The chart begins with 12/31/23. If you tap on the line where “12/31/22” pops up you will get the correct values for that date.
Initial amount: $20,000 / Start date: 12/31/21
Values on 12/31/22
GLIFX $19,741
GLFOX $19,689
Difference from 12/31/21 to 12/31/22: GLIFX +$52.00
@hank, the higher sum is from January to June, as I said in my post. The more time that goes by, the more the disparity grows. Start the comparison from 2021 and the disparity is now 164 bucks.
Where you start and stop your year also matters. For example, at M* you can chart the two against each other for the past year,and the difference is 57 bucks. Take a look at the chart in the new link I posted. At the end of December 2021, the discrepancy from January is 63 bucks.
The difference of .25 is not just a drag on the upside. It also sinks the fund deeper on the downside. As you can see in the link, at the end of January 2021, GLFOX is 13 bucks behind. And it will never catch up. It will fall inexorably behind.
I don't need to take IRA distributions for six years. If I back test the two funds for six years the CAGR for GLIFX is 8.63 vs, 8.35 for GLFOX. And the difference in dollars is 562 if 20K were the amount invested.
If one likes energy company prospects but does not like the high volatility of energy equities, one can look into finding funds with a portfolio that combines utility and energy stocks. GASFX is one such fund, which I never owned and have not research into but it has an M* analyst rating of Negative. I used to own GLFOX many many years ago. I treat GLFOX as a downstream vertical; whereas, GASFX as a upstream vertical.
Utilities, and consumer defensive, are kind of pricey at the moment.
I have rearranged my deck chairs into FSUTX. Just a hunch that it might be a good sector for active management going forward. YMMV.
Wow. Just looked at FSUTX. For what it's worth: 5-stars and a Bronze decoration at Morningstar. But the yield is less than 2%. If i were to own some utilities beyond what my other funds already hold, I'd personally require a 3% minimum yield, because it would serve as an equity, but bond-like choice for me, with decent dividends.
Comments
I should have added, it’s much more likely to have to sell a portion of this fund (no charge) as needs arise rather than buy back in ($49.99 fee). It’s pretty stable, so that there shouldn’t be a lot of rebalancing out/in/out. It’s part of the more stable “Let ‘em ride” segment of portfolio.
I once owned a BlackRock fund, service class shares, at Fidelity. That was the lowest ER noload share class I could buy. Once the (slightly cheaper) A shares were offered NTF, I asked Fidelity to convert the shares. They said that BlackRock wouldn't allow this. (Since this was a taxable account, I couldn't just sell and repurchase on my own without consequences.)
Gradually I liquidated the position over a few years, for other reasons.
$20,000 invested 1 year would earn roughly an additional … $50
$50,000 .………..1 year ……………………………………….. $125
$75,000 …………1 year………………………………..…..…. $187.50
What will the above extra return buy?
$50 - A 750 ml bottle of Johnny Walker Double-Black blended Scotch whisky - including state tax.
$125 - A nice upgrade from your $500 dollar a night room at a Manhattan hotel to a “corner view.”
$187.50 - Taxi fare from LGA to Manhattan and back - including driver tips.
(But it did go up a bit over the 2-3 days I owned it.)
Years ago, just before the GFC, I remember suddenly being long 16 futures contracts instead of 4 b/c I never got a confirmation back and kept refreshing the screen on the ramshackle Java-based active trading platform I was using. About 15 minutes later I nearly died when I was in such a large (an unexpected) position , which I promptly liquidated completely before catching my breath....thankfully the market remained relatively flat during that period of confusion.
To my then-broker's credit, they credited me the few hundred bucks' I was down, plus the commissions, b/c I proved, and they confirmed, the problem was due to their platform. I was relieved, to say the least ... but rarely used that system again.
We live, we learn.
I contacted my TDA rep and explained that it was obviously a mistake — *nobody* would buy a MM fund on margin. He was nice enough to waive all the interest charges.
Lesson learned. Watch your balances.
I've made my fair share over the years!
Hopefully, investor's mistakes were not catastrophic.
For example, having a large percentage of wealth in one stock which later goes bankrupt
or selling equities after they were crushed during the GFC and staying out of the market for years.
Live and learn...
Interestingly, I continue to make mistakes - thankfully, every time, it is a new mistake! Sometimes I wonder how is it possible for so many mistakes to exist? I made a new one last Thursday. Unfortunately, they all add up over time. If there is ever a good time to make mistakes, I think it is in a bull market where mistakes are easily forgiven and cost less.
Have a nice Sunday, Derf
(sorry, couldn't resist....)
Oklahoma Gas & Electric. OGE. HQ in OKC.
https://www.morningstar.com/stocks/xnys/oge/quote
https://www.stockrover.com/world/insight/summary/Quotes/OGE
Per portfolio visualizer, the difference on 20K between GLIFX and GLOFX from January 2022 to June 2023 is 82 bucks. That .25 saves on the downside too. GLIFX lost 1.3% in 2022 vs 1.55% for GLOFX.
That might appear to be an 18 month period. Even than, the higher earnings are a bit more than I’d expect based on a difference of .25% ER. ($82 / $75)
What I did for a one year time frame was simply multiply the .25% difference in ER by the invested sum. That should, ISTM, produce a reasonably accurate difference in investor return. For longer terms the results would be less accurate because of the compounding effect.
$1,000 X 0.0025 = $2.50
$20,000 X 0.0025 = $550.00
Don’t know. I’m not very familiar with the source you are referencing. Maybe others have sharper insights on this than I.
BTW. Check the tab for monthly returns,and you can see how it happens.
What you need to do is tap along the two colored lines about 2/3 of the way across. Dates and corresponding total investment amount will come up for each fund. The chart begins with 12/31/23. If you tap on the line where “12/31/22” pops up you will get the correct values for that date.
Initial amount: $20,000 / Start date: 12/31/21
Values on 12/31/22
GLIFX $19,741
GLFOX $19,689
Difference from 12/31/21 to 12/31/22: GLIFX +$52.00
VPU = Vanguard Utility ETF
GASFX = Gas Utilities
FSUTX = Fidelity Utility
FKUTX = Franklin Utility
Others:
money.usnews.com/funds/mutual-funds/rankings/utilities
Where you start and stop your year also matters. For example, at M* you can chart the two against each other for the past year,and the difference is 57 bucks. Take a look at the chart in the new link I posted. At the end of December 2021, the discrepancy from January is 63 bucks.
The difference of .25 is not just a drag on the upside. It also sinks the fund deeper on the downside. As you can see in the link, at the end of January 2021, GLFOX is 13 bucks behind. And it will never catch up. It will fall inexorably behind.
I don't need to take IRA distributions for six years. If I back test the two funds for six years the CAGR for GLIFX is 8.63 vs, 8.35 for GLFOX. And the difference in dollars is 562 if 20K were the amount invested.
I currently own SWX in my trading account.
I have rearranged my deck chairs into FSUTX. Just a hunch that it might be a good sector for active management going forward. YMMV.
Yes, Utes are indeed pricey these days.
Past performance, and future returns, and all that . . . But, widows and orphans rejoice.
I didn't get that FSUTX 2022 return. I had PRUZX, and one of the etf's, and I wanted to consolidate the ornaments on the retirement tree.
BTW. RSPU came through 2022 with a 4.35 return. And it only yields 2.50. I didn't have that either.