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S&P Enters Bull Market

edited June 2023 in Other Investing
”It’s official. We’re in a bull market” / Article

Nice to report some good news.

The S&P 500 rallied Thursday to end the day in a bull market, marking a 20% surge since its most recent low, reached on October 12, 2022. That brings to end the bear market that began in January 2022. Buoyed by gains in big technology stocks, the broad-based index closed at 4,293.93 and crossed the threshold that separates a bear market from a bull market — that’s investor-speak for a period of time marked by rising stock prices and optimism on Wall Street. Investors are certainly in a buying mood: CNN’s Fear and Greed Index hit ‘Extreme Greed’ Thursday. Markets have remained surprisingly resilient over the past nine months, as 2022 losers like tech and media have bounced back from a disastrous year on hope that the worst is over for those industries.

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Comments

  • Just this week I've seen several thumbsuckers on the return of small caps. Last year it was value. Then it's AI and semi-conductors. Or not.

    I bought SPGP this week to keep an oar in on large caps.

    Also put a few kopeks in FMIMX, RWJ and SYLD. Probably won't add up to much. But I'm comfortable holding value and small caps.

    And the way RWJ and SYLD go, they're pretty much an E-Ticket ride.

    So that's fun.

    Yeehaw


  • I have to wonder if it's just the S&P 500 Elite 7 that are in a bull market. Can you imagine if the remaining 493 equities in the S&P 500 decide to join the party? Just thinking out loud.
  • Yes, @Mark, that would be quite a development. Such a market move might get folks on the board to talk about equity funds (as opposed to interest rates, CDs, treasuries, and MMFs).
  • Bull Market Watch

    Major indexes bottomed at different times in 2022, & their status in 2023 are also quite different.

    DJIA +17.89% (low in 10/2022)
    SP500 +20.04% (low in 10/2022)
    Nasdaq Comp +29.62% (low in 12/2022) (was +19.46% in 02/2023)
    DJ Transports +20.02% (low in 09/2022) (was +30.34% in 02/2023)
    IWM/R2000 +15.67% (low in 06/2022) (was +22.68% in 08/2022, +22.19% in 02/2023)
    DJ Utilities +9.76% (low in 10/2022)

    Early movers R2000, Nasdaq Comp, DJ Transports reached the bull market (+20% from prior low) first, but now SP500 has made it, and DJIA may follow (& Dow Theory followers declaring a new bull market). Forget about DJ Utilities. Note that there was a powerful move in early-2023 - some called it a huge "thrust", then a minor dip, and then the debt-ceiling fiasco only restrained the markets (i.e. didn't harm it).

  • If people are only investing in a 500 stock cap-weighted world it might be hard to get at those other companies doing well.

    My wife is the only one of us with a 500 index fund, which is in her taxable portfolio. Over the past 12 months it has been outperformed by GRID, FIW, IHDG, and CGW in addition to tech sector funds. She has PSCC in her IRA. And that has beat the 500 over the past year, and over its lifetime. So those are a lot of consumer, health, and industrial stocks, a fair number of which aren't even in the 500.

    Of course there are duds too. It's hard to beat the market. So it's no wonder people are talking about T-Bills and CD's when they are paying over 5%. That's a lot of headwind for stocks that don't pay dividends, and might not be growing reliably in an inflation-for-longer environment.

    Seemed like few of the folks quoted in the article cited in the OP seemed enthusiastic about the new bull.
  • edited June 2023
    It pays to watch all the different markets, domestic and global, of which the S&P represents only a part.. But, generally speaking, as one who invests in stocks / stock funds I’d rather see things go up than down.
  • DJIA has more cyclicals, and only 14.62% is "industrials" now. Its price-weighted design is also flawed, but it has been heavily promoted by DJ/NWS and SPGI (in the US and abroad). Walter Cronkite famously said that he just reported DJIA in his daily news broadcasts but didn't fully understand what it was (web search failed to produce any specific quote).

    Nasdaq Comp is growth and tech-heavy. Market-cap weighted.

    SP500 is a blend (of growth and cyclicals) and is broader. Often, the market-cap weighted SP500 SPY is compared with equal-weight SP500 RSP to see how the broad market is doing.
    https://stockcharts.com/h-perf/ui?s=SPY&compare=RSP&id=p26386927283
  • S&P enters bull as investors flee. That's my headline. I ran across this piece from Reuters on my Fido feed. Excerpts follow:
    U.S. equity funds had their biggest weekly outflow in 10 weeks in the seven days to June 7 as investors, worried about rising inflation and an economic slowdown, pulled out their money.

    [ellipses]

    Refinitiv Lipper data showed investors offloaded a net $16.44 billion worth of U.S. equity funds in their biggest weekly net selling since March 29.

    [ellipses]

    Among U.S. funds, large- and mid-cap funds experienced net outflows of $7.53 billion and $1.07 billion, respectively. However, small-cap funds saw net inflows totalling approximately $1.15 billion.

    Tech sector funds faced outflows of $1.31 billion after five consecutive weeks of inflows, while industrials and consumer discretionary funds pulled in $616 million and $399 million, respectively.

    Money market funds received inflows of $19.83 billion, according to the data, reflecting investors' continued preference for these funds as net buyers for the seventh consecutive week.

    U.S. bond funds witnessed withdrawals of $561 million, following five consecutive weeks of inflows.

    Investors sold U.S. general domestic taxable fixed-income and short/intermediate investment-grade funds amounting to $1.79 billion and $1.45 billion, respectively, while purchasing government funds totalling $1.76 billion.
    That is all.
  • edited June 2023
    Thanks @WABC. That’s enlightening.

    What I see … on one hand many denigrate the S&P - some favoring cash over it. While, at the same time, Vanguard’s S&P index fund (Admiral shares / VFIAX) is the second largest mutual fund in the U.S. with an AUM of $808.8 billion. Only their Admiral shares Total Market Index fund (VTSAX) surpasses it in size.

    Source

    A paradox - Nobody wants to own it. But everybody appears to.:)
  • hank said:

    Thanks @WABC. That’s enlightening.

    What I see … on one hand many denigrate the S&P - some favoring cash over it. While, at the same time, Vanguard’s S&P index fund (Admiral shares / VFIAX) is the second largest mutual fund in the U.S. with an AUM of $808.8 billion. Only their Admiral shares Total Market Index fund (VTSAX) surpasses it in size.

    Source

    A paradox - Nobody wants to own it. But everybody appears to.:)

    I guess there's a lot of Bogleheads out there! ;-)
  • Barron's Cover this week

    image
  • edited June 2023
    LOL - Yogi, I was about to post the same image! A picture’s worth a thousand words. Watch the fund money start to flow into the S&P next week! Investors have very short memories.

    Enjoyed Randall Forsyth’s classic opening salvo.

    ”To have and to hold”, legions of June brides and grooms around the world will vow in the words originated in the Book of Common Prayer. The Federal Reserve similarly is likely to be on hold, at least insofar as its monetary policy is concerned. But, as its fellow central bankers in Canada and Australia have shown recently, this is apt to be anything but a long-term commitment.
  • edited June 2023
    @yogibearbull,

    What is Barron's cover history for a signal?

    I thought the following from WSJ talking about bullish sentiment is comical for the picture they chose to use -

    https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-dow-jones-06-09-2023/card/stocks-are-going-up-investors-don-t-want-to-miss-out--BfAjWQoFrUUMrEiRXacg

    To my eye that is a clear cow not a bull!

    With NYU and Columbia education, all in NYC, is it possible Gunjan Benarji has never seen cattle to know the difference?
  • edited June 2023
    @BaluBalu, a Google search on that WSJ picture led to this Getty Images that clearly labeled it as a bull. Is your view of the picture clear enough to say it's a cow? I have also found the WSJ piece on Gunjan Banerji's Twitter page and I follow her too. There are 2+ dozen comments on it but none mention this bull vs cow aspect.
    https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/bull-standing-in-field-royalty-free-image/200455053-001
  • BaluBalu said:

    @yogibearbull,

    What is Barron's cover history for a signal?

    I thought the following from WSJ talking about bullish sentiment is comical for the picture they chose to use -

    https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-dow-jones-06-09-2023/card/stocks-are-going-up-investors-don-t-want-to-miss-out--BfAjWQoFrUUMrEiRXacg

    To my eye that is a clear cow not a bull!

    With NYU and Columbia education, all in NYC, is it possible Gunjan Benarji has never seen cattle to know the difference?

    Where do you live that cows don't have udders?
  • It's quite evident the" bull " had a sex change operation !
  • Wife says it's cow too - she grew up with families around that had cows to supply milk and even milked some as a kid. I will point this out on Twitter and may be WSJ can get a refund from Getty Images.
  • edited June 2023
    Posted on Twitter, https://twitter.com/YBB_Finance/status/1668048779285504003

    YBB Personal Finance
    @YBB_Finance

    The image seems mislabeled by Getty Images (I found it by Google search) as a bull, but several people verified that it's a cow! The WSJ may get a refund from Getty Images.

    Otherwise, cows are running on Wall Street.
    https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/bull-standing-in-field-royalty-free-image/200455053-001
  • edited June 2023
    There’s a pretty bullish article in Barron’s this week supporting that cover (”The Next Bull Market is Here. Don’t Miss Out”). Brian Belski & Ed Yardeni are cited as proponents of the bull thesis. Of course, it’s all conjecture. But they’re putting their a** on the line to an extent. Could come back to bite them. They’re pretty good about owning up to mistakes. My take is they (Barron’s) are often very premature in their calls (about a year early with home builders) but usually get it right longer term.
  • Derf said:

    It's quite evident the" bull " had a sex change operation !

    Might be one of California's Happy Cows.

    But it looks like a steer to me. Or maybe a Ken Bull.
  • edited June 2023
    Fortunately, Yogi posted that shot before I could!:)

    It’s pretty evident the editors thought they had a baby bull - regardless of appearances.

  • Wife says it's cow too - she grew up with families around that had cows to supply milk and even milked some as a kid. I will point this out on Twitter and may be WSJ can get a refund from Getty Images.

    My wife wants to know why I'm not cooking dinner. I show her the picture. First things she says is "Where is the udder?"

    I gotta go.:)
  • Photo-shopped ?
  • Ok, You're probably thinking it, so I'll just come out and say it: udderly ridiculous!
  • Wall Street is udderless!
  • edited June 2023
    Thanks to @hank for chiming on the power of Barron’s cover signal. I know that there is a general notion of magazine covers being contra signals but was not sure if that applied to Barron’s cover. Thanks.
  • edited June 2023
    No bull

    Oh, The market? I tend to think Barron’s has the overall picture right, (no pun intended), perhaps a year out. But I don’t think they meant to say markets won’t go lower first. Nor do they mean there won’t be a recession sometime in the next year. Likely there will be. I don’t invest on those kinds of projections anyway. I’m mostly statically allocated at my age, meaning I pretty much keep hands off. With the small 20% that I still allow myself to fiddle with, it’s tilted slightly in favor of fixed income vs equities. If markets steam ahead, I’ll raise the fixed income even higher and reduce equities further.
  • Unlike deers, both bulls and cows grow horns. The picture on WSJ is definitely a cow. Pretty funny that Getty Images messed up.

  • Sven said:

    Unlike deers, both bulls and cows grow horns. The picture on WSJ is definitely a cow. Pretty funny that Getty Images messed up.

    Oh.

    The Journal has a cow.

    Thought everyone was talking about the big blue critter.

    image

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