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M* screwing everything up again

CrashCrash
in Other Investing
Standard Portfolio Manager is now becoming obsolete. "Morningstar Investor" is the new razzle-dazzle. More dogs and ponies. Now we'll have to learn how to navigate this new shiny system which must have impressed some I.T. genius, and so everyone must adjust. Among the "improvements" is that Watchlists have their own webpage now. Gotta convert my Watchlist into a portfolio, but that must be done on the old "Legacy" page, first. (Like the Watchlist THEY created, which I never wanted to be a Watchlist in the first place. I set it up as a Portfolio, but some gremlin decided to make it a watchlist.) "New And Improved!" Ya, sure. Bozos.


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Comments

  • Art
    edited June 2022
    Nice to have advance warning.NOT. Where will we go to keep the data as I have many watch portfolios. New M* is $250 year.
  • racqueteer
    Are there STILL people paying for that 'service'? M* has REPEATEDLY indicated that it doesn't care about individuals and what they think.
  • Art
    edited June 2022
    I will certainly look at other options for basic portfolio monitoring before I pay $250. Another thing is if I do not use M* for portfolio stuff I will have no need to visit the site. Self defeating IMO.
  • rforno
    Personal Capital is a good (free) choice, which I use for periodic snapshots of my portfolios.
  • yogibearbullyogibearbull
    M* Investor (Replacing Old/Legacy M* Portfolios)
    investor.morningstar.com/

    I haven't explored the new M* Investor fully. But some comments.

    1. I had stopped using the old Watch Lists because I couldn't add Notes there. There is a small headache in making entries in the Portfolios because they requires dates, share numbers and prices, but for "watchlist" purposes, I just entered random dates (start of the month/year), 1 share, $1 price. In fact, when I converted some old Watchlists to Portfolios, it internally almost did that. So, I won't miss the new less convenient access to Watchlists (via new pages).

    2. The Chart feature within M* Investors seems better - it can Compare different things (OEFs, ETFs, CEFs, stocks). This was a sudden new restriction of the Chart feature accessed from M* Homepage (that remains restrictive/limited). There are both Price and Growth-of-10K displays. However, these Charts are not linkable, and Export just creates a screenshot.

    3. One main change I see is that there won't be multiyear subscriptions, but yearly renewals only. I haven't checked the access/feature differences between M* Basic and M* Premium subscriptions.

    I will add more updates here,
    https://ybbpersonalfinance.proboards.com/thread/256/interactive-charts-newer?page=1&scrollTo=669


  • Ben
    The situation is currently worse than described in this thread. Morningstar is telling me my "Legacy" Portfolios have been migrated (by them) to Investor. And maybe they have but not anywhere where I can actually see them. I have sent an email to M* asking where the alleged migrated portfolios can be seen. I have not yet received a reply.
  • hank
    rforno said:

    Personal Capital is a good (free) choice, which I use for periodic snapshots of my portfolios.

    These guys require a phone number. Wondering if they’ll sell it to advertisers or use it to pester you?
  • JoJo26
    hank said:

    rforno said:

    Personal Capital is a good (free) choice, which I use for periodic snapshots of my portfolios.

    These guys require a phone number. Wondering if they’ll sell it to advertisers or use it to pester you?
    They'll pester you nonstop, especially if you have a decent amount of capital (they want you to become a fee-paying client). I just blocked them.
  • yogibearbullyogibearbull
    @Ben, you have to click Launch Investor.

    For now, when you access Portfolio from M* Homepage, the default is the old/legacy Portfolio page that will eventually go away. When you click Launch Investor, you are taken to the new M* Investor page that one can bookmark for direct access. It seems that for a while, the M* Homepage will continue to offer this option.

    New M* Investor Link https://investor.morningstar.com/

    Old/Legacy M* Portfolio Link https://www.morningstar.com/portfolio-manager

    M* Homepage https://www.morningstar.com/
  • Ben
    @yogubearbull. I did click Launch Investor. My portfolios are nowhere to be seen. I click on the Portfolios option on the Investor page and my only option is to create new ones. If I create a new one using the name I have already given to a Legacy Portfolio I get an error message. If I make a new name I am taken to a page which allows me to enter data. The Legacy portfolios cannot be seen.
  • Ben
    I also logged out and logged in again. That didn't help.
    Ben said:

    @yogubearbull. I did click Launch Investor. My portfolios are nowhere to be seen. I click on the Portfolios option on the Investor page and my only option is to create new ones. If I create a new one using the name I have already given to a Legacy Portfolio I get an error message. If I make a new name I am taken to a page which allows me to enter data. The Legacy portfolios cannot be seen.

  • Art
    I printed out my portfolios and deleted them. No trust for M*. See nothing at Fidelity or Schwab where I can add outside investments and track with shares bought and price. M* was nice. Might be the only place to do what I want.
  • rforno
    hank said:

    rforno said:

    Personal Capital is a good (free) choice, which I use for periodic snapshots of my portfolios.

    These guys require a phone number. Wondering if they’ll sell it to advertisers or use it to pester you?
    They called me once. Told 'em I wasn't interested and they took me off their call list. No worries. I gat the occasional (very rare) email asking if I'd be interested in their services but I ignore them.

    I'm blocking any non-known numbers in my contact list and they've never called me back in well over a year or more.

  • hank
    I pay about $50 yearly for an app from Apple’s store. Positives and negatives. Usually one of the prices on a fund is inaccurate or missing.

    M* has been fine over several years.

    I’m looking now at Yahoo‘s free tracker. Provided recovery email. You can opt out of their request for a phone number, Confusing to set up. Also being bombarded with ads even with my blocker running.
  • BenWPBenWP
    In my experience investor services allow cancelation within 30 days at no charge, as well as pro-rated refunds during the subscription period. At M*, however, you pays your money and M* keeps it. This is surely a bad feature for individual investors who, rightly or wrongly, want the flexibility to try out a service to see if it fits. Even the streaming services offer a free week of access before locking you into a monthly charge, which can be canceled at any time. Others have pointed out that M* manages to do everything to screw the individual. I have not yet navigated to the new site.
  • larryB
    I have used Portfolio manager for years. It was particularly useful when I had assets in several places. But dudes,,,,, we have bigger things to fret about. Maybe we should be like the Bogleheads who brag about not looking at the their investments for months at a time.
  • fred495
    I got a promotional offer for the new M* Investor at $199 for the first year. There is a 7-day free trial period. The offer expires on 9/30/2022.

    Fred
  • Ben
    OK, I worked it out. Apparently what I have been calling "portfolios" M* has been calling "watchlists". There is an option to migrate watchlists and that was quick and easy to use. But now M* has sent me a message about new terms. The email began like this: "Hi Dummy1" !! So now I am a dummy? Maybe so for continuing to use M* and pay for it. Have they lost their minds or do they just want to lose all their customers?
  • hank
    edited June 2022
    @BenWP - Not dumb for paying for it. I think the price a bit steep unless one uses all their other features. I don’t. But nothing wrong for paying for good service. My guess is that with Apple and some others helping users block tracking cookies, they can’t make money giving the portfolio service away to freeloaders like myself. I suppose they could do as Yahoo is doing and flood their board with ads for revenue but resisted that approach. The cookie blocking is widely attributed to a decline in Farcebook umm .. META’s decline in value.
  • WABACWABAC
    Exported everything I wanted in terms of watch lists.. If I need to see how things are doing I can always log onto my actual accounts.

    So basically this just removes one more thing from my daily browsing. I suppose I'll check into see their little daily market box. But there is just so little to read there anymore. I still have the weather to keep track of.

    Memo to self: Never buy an M* based ETF.
  • AndyJ
    I hope they don't notice that the really old legacy pages (performance, ratings & risk, etc.) are still updating and decide they need to delete all that.
  • ProtonAnalyst33
    It is odd when they require fliping back and forth between the "new" and "old" versions of the page. Why not just update teh whole thing (or not) and then release? M* has always done that, which i've never understood.
  • Ben
    edited June 2022
    Can anyone here please explain how to convert a "legacy" watchlist to a portfolio? Morningstar is doing a good job of hiding that information. Thanks in advance.
    A FEW MINUTES LATER: never mind, I figured it out.
  • CrashCrash
    edited June 2022
    @Ben. I sympathize, following your messages down this thread. Others have asked if there are any good alternatives. I will TRY Personal Capital. If they want a phone, I'll give them the spam number I saved once, a spoof Area Code from back East. In the past, I've tried Yahoo and Google finance pages, where you can create a watchlist or portfolio. I found them both to be very clunky. I just looked over at INVESTOPEDIA. They seem to have everything EXCEPT a PORTFOLIO MANAGER of the sort we're talking about here. There is a "SIMULATOR" game, where you compete against a billion faceless other people in the market, choosing stocks and funds. I suppose someone could choose to use the Simulator for REAL, instead?

    I still plan to use the "New and Improved" version (LOL) because the premium version is provided for free to me via TRP, because I have X amount of money invested with TRP. But I'd love to find something simpler, less aggravating and just plain handy. This current nonsense has the look and feel of a cluster-fuck. AGAIN.
  • CrashCrash
    hank said:

    I pay about $50 yearly for an app from Apple’s store. Positives and negatives. Usually one of the prices on a fund is inaccurate or missing.

    M* has been fine over several years.

    I’m looking now at Yahoo‘s free tracker. Provided recovery email. You can opt out of their request for a phone number, Confusing to set up. Also being bombarded with ads even with my blocker running.

    ************************************
    I was lately locked out of my yahoo mail when Apple fried my computer with an "update." I just created a new email, and used it as access to Yahoo's free tracker--- since the email gives me an account presence. I'm running a few privacy and ad-blocking applications, too. But the page is so BUSY! You're correct. I have not yet tried to go further than simply LISTING stocks/funds I wish to track. Turning me off rather quickly.

  • CrashCrash
    racqueteer said:

    Are there STILL people paying for that 'service'? M* has REPEATEDLY indicated that it doesn't care about individuals and what they think.

    Absolutely correct.
  • CrashCrash
    edited June 2022
    "Simply Wall Street" will let you hold a portfolio for free, but access to info about stocks----- even the ones in your portfolio there--- are limited to five hits per month. Beyond that, you pay.
    My own dashboard: https://simplywall.st/dashboard

    I see that Watchlist and Portfolio are distinct on that website. And you can add separate portfolios, too. Maybe that holds true for Watchlists, as well? DAILY price changes can be seen for free, anytime. That stuff is auto-updated. Might be worth investigating, for some of us.
  • msf
    Ben said:

    OK, I worked it out. Apparently what I have been calling "portfolios" M* has been calling "watchlists". There is an option to migrate watchlists and that was quick and easy to use.

    The legacy portfolio manager has for many years had both portfolios and watchlists. M* describes the difference between a legacy portfolio and a legacy watchlist thusly:
    A Portfolio contains detailed data on holdings including purchase date, shares, and price, and allow for greater historical tracking and analysis.

    A Watch List can be used to track stocks/funds of interest and only requires entering ticker symbols.
    As I recall, the portfolios were supposed to keep track of dividend reinvestments. I don't know whether that was automatic or required transactions to be input manually, but it was added complexity that I didn't care about. So I stuck with watchlists to track portfolios.

    With the "new and improved" portfolio manager, M* has changed the meaning of a watchlist and impaired its functionality (the politically incorrect verb is "crippled"). No longer can it be used to track a portfolio. It doesn't let you enter the number of shares you own of a security. So of course it no longer reports the aggregate value of the "watched" holdings, or the daily change of the aggregate.

    M* says    : "When creating a watchlist you do not enter the number of shares or purchase price."

    So what's the point of this stripped down watchlist?M* says that "The purpose of a watchlist is to track investment ideas or securities that you don't currently own. It is also used to compare 2 or more securities using custom sets of datapoints that you create."
  • CrashCrash
    +1.
  • Ben
    @msf: Yes, for years I entered shares owned to the mutual funds I entered in what I thought was portfolios but were actually watchlists. And it functioned perfectly well. But I found a button that allowed me to instantly convert "legacy" watchlists to legacy portfolios (albeit one by one) and these migrated automatically to the Investor section to become "investor portfolios". But I would have preferred they just left things as they were. Now there are too many bells and whistles. That usually means there are more things to become dysfunctional more often.
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