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Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.

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Well isn't this special........D.C.

edited January 2021 in Fund Discussions

Remaining fully embarrassed by what the world is watching. Time for the straight jack escort.

ADD: and the stock market just keeps humming along.....


  • Because we live in a world run by corporations and plutocrats in which governments no longer seem to matter. The checkerboard may have switched sides from red to black, but companies own the checkerboard and all the checkers. I imagine the Street believes far more stimulus is on its way with Democrats in control, and they would be right on that count. Hence small-caps are way up.
  • Trillions of $s spent on military gadgets didn't save us from hackers.
    It didn't save us from covid-19 - this is really very sad state of affairs.
    Help people survive from this pandemic - stimulus - raises questionable debate.
    Republicans would have given to rich whereas democrats will spread a bit.
    Stocks are going up because of backstops provided by the FEDS.
  • It's time to invoke the 25th amendment.
  • edited January 2021
    Totally concur with the 25th amendment.
    Frank Bowman, a professor of constitutional law at the University of Missouri, said Trump “arguably fomented sedition,” or an attempted overthrowing of the U.S. government.

    But Bowman said Trump could also be impeached for a more general offence: disloyalty to the U.S. Constitution and failing to uphold his oath of office. Congress has discretion in defining a high crime and misdemeanor and is not limited to actual criminal offences.

    “The essential offence would be one against the Constitution - one of essentially trying to undermine the lawful results of a lawfully conducted election,” Bowman said.
  • Peaceful protesting?

    Kabuki theatre?

    Baseball Fan

  • In watching Congress after they reconvened it was interesting to see how some of the Republicans had, temporarily at least, pulled in their horns. Why, they were shocked, just shocked, that things had come to this. Why, the President had actually sent a mob of thugs to their turf! Whoever could have seen something like this coming? Well, he's certainly gone too far this time! Says Lindsey Graham, Trump's great champion. Right.
  • Prior to January 6th there were lots of chatter in social media and calls for something beside peaceful demonstration. I am surprising that the law enforcement agencies, DC police and FBI did not anticipate the size of protestors and be better prepared. Pictures of these "peaceful" protesters breached the building security are unreal. Things could gotten really ugly if they are heavily armed. It is absolutely shameful to see this riot that is incited by our sitting president.
  • I sent this to my senators and you should too. "IMPEACH -- He must never be president again. If a coup isn't impeachable what is? IMPEACH."
  • It's time to invoke the 25th amendment.

    In a somewhat more forgotten corner of the Constitution is the Disqualification Clause (Section 3) of the 14th Amendment.
    Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment disqualifies an individual from serving as a state or federal official if that person has "engaged in insurrection or rebellion against" the United States. Although the clause was written in the context of the Civil War, it would theoretically still apply for members of future rebellions or insurrections against the United States.

    Congress put teeth into this by passing the Enforcement Act of 1870. Section 15 reads:
    And be it further enacted, that any person who shall hereafter knowingly accept or hold any office under the United States, or any state to which he is ineligible under the third section of the fourteenth article of amendment of the constitution of the United States, or who shall attempt to hold or exercise the duties of any such office, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor against the United States, and, upon conviction thereof before the circuit or district court of the United States, shall be imprisoned not more than one year, or fined not exceeding one thousand dollars, or both, at the discretion of the court.
    There's an interesting footnote, literally, to this section of the Amendment. It says that in 1885 the Attorney General issued an opinion that this disqualification from holding federal office does not apply to those receiving Presidential pardons before this Amendment was adopted. Which suggests that even a pardon is insufficient to permit someone who has engaged in insurrection to hold federal office.

    Just something to keep in mind in case you're the town's lowly dog catcher (who has taken an oath of office) and are thinking about storming, say, the Library of Congress. Or perhaps more relevant to this forum, looting the US Treasury.
  • edited January 2021
    I commend the decorum thus far, with comments in this thread.

    The subject matter was placed in "fund discussions" as to the potential fallout implications into all areas of the investment markets; from the events of Jan. 6, at the Capitol building.

    May 1, 2020 found gun carrying protesters inside the Michigan Capitol building face to face, literally; with Michigan State Police. One false move, accident or mistake could have caused a very nasty situation. One can easily imagine what could have taken place at the U.S. Capitol building, had "x" number of the protesters carried and chose to use weapons. I didn't see any long rifles, but I would not be surprised about 9mm pistols. Common GLOCK handguns may have 20 rounds in place.

    What we may have considered in the past years to be a "black swan" event; has taken a new face, that still may affect investing markets going forward. Those who feel more empowered now about what a "patriot" may be; have not and will not disappear.

    Thank you.
  • @catch22, can you go back and change the posting under Other Topics? The Edit icon on upper right corner allows changes on the message.
  • Hi @Sven
    Yes. An original post may be edited, by the author; including changing the category or subject line or body text.
    Are you requesting that I change the category, or merely providing information?
  • It's time to invoke the 25th amendment.

    Probably the only time I can ever say “ I agree with you”

  • Today Sen. Schumer described yesterday's events as "an insurrection against the United States, incited by the president." I agree and have relayed messages to his office, as well as to that of my own Senator (I seem to have only one at the moment) calling upon Congress to invoke Section 3 of the 14th Amendment to preclude Donald Trump from ever again holding state or federal office.
  • Mitt Romney's the one who really went after the GOP (his colleagues) yesterday. In part:

    "Please! No Congressional led audit will ever convince those voters, particularly when the President will continue to claim that the election was stolen. The best way we can show respect for the voters who are upset is by telling them the truth. That is the burden, and the duty, of leadership. The truth is that President-elect Biden won this election. President Trump lost. Scores of courts, the President’s own Attorney General, and state election officials both Republican and Democrat have reached this unequivocal decision."
  • edited January 2021
    hey, admins who are so strict about hygiene, why is this in 'fund discussions' ?
  • edited January 2021
    Catch22 has given his reasons for the choice of posting venues:

    "The subject matter was placed in "fund discussions" as to the potential fallout implications into all areas of the investment markets; from the events of Jan. 6, at the Capitol building."

    The MFO administrators have been very reluctant to directly intervene in any aspect of posting standards. They have provided separate venues for the posting of different topics, and simply requested posters to observe those distinctions.

    Objections and protests regarding the posting of certain types of subject matter have not come from the administrators, but rather from a significant number of MFO posters themselves. The administrators reacted to that user input, primarily by modifying the nature of the Off-Topic venue so as to be less visible to those who are not interested in (or even offended by) the topics sometimes discussed there.

    Unfortunately, at least from my perspective, that's resulted in a much less lively and interesting OT section. It no longer draws much participation from those posters who use MFO primarily for strictly financial matters, and who are not particularly interested in discussing the many underlying social and political factors. I do think that something valuable has been lost here, but not because of any heavy-handed administration.

  • @catch22, things happen. I have no issue if you leaving it. I myself run into this too from time to time.

    By the way, I heard several capitals across the country are having protests. There were bomb threat in Lansing capital. Think people ought to protest for their $2,000 stimulus check instead.
  • It was disturbing to see Romney got harassed at Salt Lake City airport on Monday/Tuesday. He stayed cool and tried to answer her question. The GOP has created their own monster by enabling him in the last 4 years. This country is a democratic republic, not a banana republic.
  • edited January 2021
    Probably the only time I can ever say “ I agree with you”
    Hold a grudge much? I'm sure there are many things we agree upon. I just believe investing is inherently political and the ends don't justify the means when doing it and you think the opposite. So really there's this one thing we strongly disagree upon. I have close friends who I strongly disagree with on certain issues. It makes life more interesting.
  • >> the potential fallout implications into all areas of the investment markets

    my manhattan recipes and approaches to leg of lamb all have fallout implications for the markets too, plus sundry bad jokes and rants about tempo in Bach and loudspeaker radiation patterns
  • edited January 2021
    @davidrmoran OK, that was funny. I actually think the Georgia Senate results have far greater investment implications than this act of treason by Trump's base.
  • How would your opinion or outlook change if they had been successful in a takeover? Many suspect they had inside help based on the lack of resistance and probable assistance from those who were supposed to be protecting the capitol from just this sort of action.
  • edited January 2021
    That would depend on how you define successful. A complete coup in which Trump seizes power as the dictator he's always fantasized being and American democracy dies altogether instead of limps along slowly to its demise like it has been for forty years would probably be disastrous for markets. But seriously, ask yourself as you stare at your screen right now how much yesterday's event affects Google's, Microsoft's, Amazon's and Facebook's bottom lines? Not much if at all I suspect. And even under autocracies markets can do well. China is an autocracy which switched from being a fake communist autocracy to now a fake capitalist autocracy and its markets have done quite well. The idea that capitalism brings freedom is a myth. I am horrified by yesterday's events, disgusted, but Davidrmoran is right that it will probably not hurt the market.
  • So are you saying that if they had been successful in taking the vice president and members of the house and senate as hostages that the market wouldn't have reacted? I'll take two of whatever it is you're having.
  • edited January 2021
    No, it would've reacted surely to that. But if the national guard/cops came in and then killed the traitors--and anyone invading and then carrying a Confederate flag in the capitol is a traitor in my book--the markets would've tanked and then probably bounced back. Yet if the coup was successful or if it was an ongoing siege, yes it would've been disastrous. The way a coup would be disastrous to the market is that Trump actually has a rather hostile relationship with these dominant tech companies and harebrained ideas about foreign trade, so giving him complete control would ruin the economy, unless the tech giants somehow struck a deal with him. But Google and the other tech players, which are global companies, have been willing to work with autocracies before. This is why I believe strongly in regulation, taxation and anti-monopolistic breakups of dominant players. In other words, I'm not really sure Wall Street minds tyrants, just so long as the tyrant doesn't get in the way of business. In fact if anything the last four years shows is that Wall Street rather liked this utterly corrupt administration. It also liked Obama's administration too and seems ready to embrace Biden's. Am I being too cynical? Perhaps. Yesterday's treason has put me in a mood.
  • edited January 2021
    Above, to answer a question put by David Moran, I posted the following:
    [The OT section] no longer draws much participation from those posters who use MFO primarily for strictly financial matters, and who are not particularly interested in discussing the many underlying social and political factors.
    The accuracy of that observation is illustrated by the general lack of interest in this thread, other than by "the usual suspects".

    The sad fact appears to be that for most of those who have sufficient financial resources to be interested in a forum such as MFO, wealth is more important than the attempted overthrow of the United States democracy.
  • Old_Joe said:

    The sad fact appears to be that for most of those who have sufficient financial resources to be interested in a forum such as MFO, wealth is more important than the attempted overthrow of the United States democracy.

    I disagree, Old_ Joe . Interest in this forum is just as likely to be because one has *insufficient* financial resources and is wishing to learn how to invest more effectively. I have not commented in this thread until now, not because wealth is more important to me than democracy (it isn't) but because this forum is not where I want to discuss yesterday's coup (or whatever it was) or to discuss how and why it happened. I have discussed yesterday's unfortunate events elsewhere and at length. I don't think my decision to not also discuss it here is a "sad fact".
  • #25. #14. Censure. Impeach. All of the above. Some are "surprised" that this President could do such a thing? Shit, I saw all of what's been happening during the campaign in 2015. And any NYer who was paying attention, where he was constantly in the news, a celebrity, should have seen it, too. Just ask his SISTER and niece.
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