Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
Wow -- I lock down my computer so only it can login. Today it asked me to get a text "code" message so I could login which I did. I just tried to login and it won't let me. There is no longer phone numbe to call. Only the fraud phone number. Not a good sign... maybe time to dump Vanguard. I've been with them for many years but this sucks to put it bluntly.
As part of their security all brokerages these days track your IP address. When it is different from the common ones they ask for text code or email code to authenticate the users. It improve security on your behalf. Do you bookmark Vanguard site so to ensure you visit the same site? If you failed to enter the correct password three times the site will lock you out. That is for your protection from hackers. Follow the 'forgot password' or 'user name' link to get back in.
Finally got through. Once logged in it's easy to find contact number but if you get locked out it's not easy to get through to a talking person. I never had this problem before so I added the VG number to my contacts.
True but If you can't get logged in you can't look at statements. I don't get paper statements but I do download a statement quarterly just in case. My mistake, I didn't think to look at it.
One can get to the pages I linked to above without logging in.
The automated message at the number on those pages says that it can help with temporary passwords. Of course if you want to talk with a human being, with Vanguard you are limited to weekdays 8AM to 8PM ET. So don't get locked out again until Monday
Locked out again today. Something is going on at Vanguard. System upgrades or something is messing things up as I haven't had this issue for months/years. Now in a 30 minute call back queue. 30 minutes!! This sucks for 2 reasons, it's long AND I normally block any callers not in my contacts which I now have to turn off. I feel grumpy old man syndrome kicking in. :^) ;^)
+1 I almost cringe when I execute transactions at Vanguard:cumbersome and inflexible! ntf funds all have minimum of 3k, ntf funds available last month now unavailable or with a tf. I would gladly pay a $200 annual fee for a Schwab premium service which would allow me to purchase VG funds with no ntf and lower minimums. I'd even transfer back to E-Trade if I could be assured Vanguard funds remained ntf there!
somewhat OT, but can anyone find a link for closing a vanguard 403B and rolling the money out in-kin to another firm? I am having trouble assisting one of my kids in this ...
@david - I'll ask, but I already think you know this, have you tried asking the firm you intend to transfer to handle all this? Easy-easy with Fidelity.
@david - I'll ask, but I already think you know this, have you tried asking the firm you intend to transfer to handle all this? Easy-easy with Fidelity.
yeah, thanks --- this is for one of my kids and I will indeed steer her in that direction, but thought maybe (har) that Vanguard might have an easy link / instructions for outflow of 403B
she and her husband have gone w some adviser, Ameriprise I am thinking, without consulting me, but hey, you have to leave home sometime, even if kind of abruptly
at least he is cheap, and surely oriented toward employed millennials, and presumably prudent or at least not imprudent
so I shall delicately inquire why she is asking dad
(there is no question that their modest nut has done better since mid-May than her idiot dad who bailed out of equities altogether)
@royal4 do you use a VPN (Virtual Private Network) by any chance? If so, Vanguard may not recognize the IP address assigned by the VPN as your IP and block your login
@royal4 : let me (us) how that works out in the future. It seems to me that I went that way awhile back & it worked for awhile & then out of the blue it stopped working , but I was still able to buy MF's. I can't say I've sold anything, so maybe that would require two factor to complete . Stay Safe, Derf .
somewhat OT, but can anyone find a link for closing a vanguard 403B and rolling the money out in-kin to another firm? I am having trouble assisting one of my kids in this ...
The firms where I've had employer-sponsored plans have generally performed distributions in kind only to IRAs held at the same firm. Note that unlike IRA transfers, rollovers from employer-sponsored plans must be initiated on the sending side, not on the receiving end.
"If you selected A, B, or C [direct rollovers to Vanguard IRAs], your assets will be invested in the same funds and proportions as in your existing Vanguard 403(b)(7) account, unless you indicate otherwise below ...
"D. [rollover to a] Retirement account held at another institution ... Rollover check will be made payable to the custodian/plan"
yup, she brought me the form, which seemed briefer than the above pdf, and it seems the same standard procedure as other brokerages --- you check rollover and then receiving institution name, and Vanguard does the rest
She has both a 401k and a rollover IRA at Fido the recipient, and asked which would be better, so if anyone has two cents about that, tia.
@davidmoran, My understanding is a 401K has many attributes that a rollover IRA does not have. That said, a 401K that resides with an old employer can be transferred to a new employer's 401K plan. This may be advantageous if the new employer's plan has great investment choices (tax deductible at any income, employer match, higher contribution amounts, low fees, high rated investment choices, loan provisions). Also, if she were to separate service from the new employer (401K employer) anytime after 55 she could withdraw from her 401K plan penalty free (normally a -10% penalty). 401K plans may have important protections as well (from lawsuits, debtors, etc.)
A 401K can always be rollover over into rollover IRA, but it might worth boning up on the differences before she does.
IMHO the key consideration is investment options; for most people the rest is noise. (If any of the many enumerated differences matter to you, I suggest going to authoritative sources for precise details as there are many nits to pick with popular press pieces.)
If the Fidelity 401(k) plan in question has investment options that would be used and that are cheaper than comparable options in an IRA, then (minor differences aside) go with the 401(k), at least with part of the money. Otherwise go with the IRA. For example, if the 401(k) has a stable value fund that would be used, or offers cheaper pooled investments in lieu of mutual funds, the 401(k) might be preferable. (A downside of pooled investments is less disclosure about the investments and performance.)
Note that no 401(k) plan is required to accept transfers. I suspect that nearly all do accept transfers from other qualified plans. Plans are less likely to accept transfers from IRAs, but some do. It's worth checking. That would facilitate transferring first to the IRA and later to the 401(k) if desired. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/rollover_chart.pdf
She is 34, so will be putting the 403b proceeds into something all-equity, ETFs or perhaps mfunds, I am thinking. Fidelity has plenty of options, nothing too gogo of course in the current-employer 401k, whereas in her own traditional rollover she may be able to invest in about anything she wishes. In this I may be advising her, or may not.
It now does occur to me that she probably also could talk to Fido about putting the 403b proceeds into her existing Fido Roth, paying the 10% or 20%, since she depleted much of her Roth to buy a house. But that may be too complex a set of calcs and involve overthinking it, as she can always move trad IRA moneys to a Roth later on. Other factors are that she has a smart (but investing-inexperienced) young husband and also a baby on the way.
The former-employer 403B proceeds are not that large, I believe, although she like most investors has greatly benefited from the crazy bull in her YA lifetime.
Realizing this was posted a couple of months ago. @bee brings up some good points. However, I would almost always choose a direct transfer roll over to an IRA (and it could stay with Fidelity) over transferring to a new employer 401k or new/existing Fidelity 401k. An IRA offers you so much flexibility in fund choices that it almost always far outweighs most other considerations. This is especially true with Fidelity which has a lot of choices vs. other brokerages. The forbes link "12 reasons not to" contains so many reasons that are typically not applicable and also a fair amount of hyperbole. Given your needs and plans, a roll over to an IRA seems like a smart choice IMHO. I agree with @MSF on the choices comment.
Regarding "2-factor authentication." I'm with Navy Federal. Because I have ad-blocker and Ad Nauseam and Privacy Possum, I have to use 2-factor authentication EVERY time I log-in, even though they do let me choose to put a check-mark in the little box that says, "Remember Me." Pain. But it's not so bad. ... I have another account, and the authentication-code can only be sent via text on the phone. But I don't have a phone (until later this month.) So, screw them. I just don't use online banking with them. Some genius made a DECISION about that: to send the damn authentication-code ONLY by phone/text. Navy lets me receive it by email, or even a recorded voice over the phone, in addition to a text message. They make it MY choice.
...And I'm still babysitting $$$ for some others. I needed the last 4 of his SS in order to get in, once the mutual fund outfit went "whole hog" with the 2-step authentication. But they wanted the SS only once, and I don't need to go through the 2-step stuff with them anymore. I have steered clear of Vanguard because of negative reports here. It just gets worse and worse, I suppose. "Name of the game." ...
@Crash I feel your pain on this but allow me to offer a slightly different viewpoint. I use a password manager that is solid. One master password is all I have to remember. It keeps 100's of other passwords for me (I have more than 500) and they are all generated by the manager. I only have to remember one. HOWEVER... all of my banking and brokerages - I use 2 Factor authentication. So, if I log in to a bank or brokerage... I WANT a text verifying that it's me. This gives me the best of both worlds. I have the password manager to login to most of the sites that I use that require a login but my financial ones... I'm protected by the 2 factor authentication. Edit: And I use BRAVE as a browser. It's an ad blocker built in etc. So I know what you are trying to accomplish there.
Comments
https://support.vanguard.com/triage/technical-support/B0037
That's the same number that one gets by following the contact us link at the top right corner of the Vanguard home page.
The automated message at the number on those pages says that it can help with temporary passwords. Of course if you want to talk with a human being, with Vanguard you are limited to weekdays 8AM to 8PM ET. So don't get locked out again until Monday
Derf
she and her husband have gone w some adviser, Ameriprise I am thinking, without consulting me, but hey, you have to leave home sometime, even if kind of abruptly
at least he is cheap, and surely oriented toward employed millennials, and presumably prudent or at least not imprudent
so I shall delicately inquire why she is asking dad
(there is no question that their modest nut has done better since mid-May than her idiot dad who bailed out of equities altogether)
Stay Safe, Derf
.
You can do an in-kind distribution from a Vanguard 403(b) to a Vanguard IRA, followed by an in-kind trustee-to-trustee IRA transfer to the other firm. See the Vanguard 403(b)(7) Single Distribution Kit:
http://www.bsgi401k.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/V-Minimum-Distribution.pdf
At the top of p. 3 (pdf p. 5):
"If you selected A, B, or C [direct rollovers to Vanguard IRAs], your assets will be invested in the same funds and proportions as in your existing Vanguard 403(b)(7) account, unless you indicate otherwise below ...
"D. [rollover to a] Retirement account held at another institution ... Rollover check will be made payable to the custodian/plan"
She has both a 401k and a rollover IRA at Fido the recipient, and asked which would be better, so if anyone has two cents about that, tia.
A 401K can always be rollover over into rollover IRA, but it might worth boning up on the differences before she does.
401(k) vs. IRA: Reading the Difference
difference-between-401k-ira
rollovers-of-retirement-plan-and-ira-distributions
ira-vs-401k/
12-reasons-not-to-roll-your-401k-into-an-ira
legal-protection-401k-vs-ira
https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/plan-participant-employee/retirement-topics-required-minimum-distributions-rmds
IMHO the key consideration is investment options; for most people the rest is noise. (If any of the many enumerated differences matter to you, I suggest going to authoritative sources for precise details as there are many nits to pick with popular press pieces.)
If the Fidelity 401(k) plan in question has investment options that would be used and that are cheaper than comparable options in an IRA, then (minor differences aside) go with the 401(k), at least with part of the money. Otherwise go with the IRA. For example, if the 401(k) has a stable value fund that would be used, or offers cheaper pooled investments in lieu of mutual funds, the 401(k) might be preferable. (A downside of pooled investments is less disclosure about the investments and performance.)
Note that no 401(k) plan is required to accept transfers. I suspect that nearly all do accept transfers from other qualified plans. Plans are less likely to accept transfers from IRAs, but some do. It's worth checking. That would facilitate transferring first to the IRA and later to the 401(k) if desired.
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/rollover_chart.pdf
It now does occur to me that she probably also could talk to Fido about putting the 403b proceeds into her existing Fido Roth, paying the 10% or 20%, since she depleted much of her Roth to buy a house. But that may be too complex a set of calcs and involve overthinking it, as she can always move trad IRA moneys to a Roth later on.
Other factors are that she has a smart (but investing-inexperienced) young husband and also a baby on the way.
The former-employer 403B proceeds are not that large, I believe, although she like most investors has greatly benefited from the crazy bull in her YA lifetime.
...And I'm still babysitting $$$ for some others. I needed the last 4 of his SS in order to get in, once the mutual fund outfit went "whole hog" with the 2-step authentication. But they wanted the SS only once, and I don't need to go through the 2-step stuff with them anymore. I have steered clear of Vanguard because of negative reports here. It just gets worse and worse, I suppose. "Name of the game." ...