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Re: Air India 787 recent crash. Report, Barrons article
@Old_Joe - July 12 you said, “At this point It's certainly seeming as if one of those two pilots deliberately crashed that airplane.”
Has your initial thinking in that regard changed substantially as new information has come to light?
Further … Assuming your initial thought was indeed the case, might the captain (riding in the right seat) have heard a click or noticed some arm movement from the First Officer and first thought it was the retraction of the gear? I’ve just re-watched the video and note that the landing gear appears to remain fully deployed as the plane descends. (WTF will they release the full cockpit audio? So many questions.)
I’m not trying to write a Hitchcock thriller. Like all here I want the investigation to dig more deeply and arrive at a plausible / accurate conclusion / cause. Technology on a modern plane like that should be sophisticated enough to identify the cause. Apparently they haven’t gotten around yet to video recording inside the cockpit as they do with audio.
@hank- All I can say is that the official investigation by reputable officials has so far said nothing about any cause other than those switches. Switches don't turn themselves on and off. Q.E.D.
Yesterday I posted about a roundtable discussion on NDTV regarding the AI 171 incident. A Boeing 787 pilot had stated: "In these modern aeroplanes, you don't need to cut off the fuel control switch. Everything is transmitted electronically. So, even if the fuel switch is in the run position, it can go into the cutoff position without moving the fuel control switch. The fuel can just shut off. If there is something wrong with the software, it commands the fuel shutoff valve to close. With the fuel control switch still in run position, the engines can shut down." This pilot's comments suggested that fuel may have been cut off via software even if the fuel control switches were not moved to the cutoff position.
Today I watched two very informative videos from Captain Steeeve. Flight Data Recorder and Cockpit Voice Recorder data seemed to indicate the fuel control switches were physically moved to the cutoff position. Deliberate human intervention was involved.
Captain Steeeve analyzes the AAIB preliminary report for the AI 171 incident. He does a very good job explaining what happened from a cockpit perspective. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00ooqCuRoU8
"Flight Data Recorder and Cockpit Voice Recorder data seemed to indicate the fuel control switches were physically moved to the cutoff position. Deliberate human intervention was involved."
U'mmm... yes. I thought that had been pretty well covered some days ago.
July 12: Yes, I've reviewed numerous reports from varied sources on this, and the consensus is that it's not possible to place the fuel switches into the cutoff position inadvertently.
The recovered cockpit audio indicates that one of the two pilots asked the other if he had operated those two switches, and that the other pilot denied having done so. At this point It's certainly seeming as if one of those two pilots deliberately crashed that airplane.
"Flight Data Recorder and Cockpit Voice Recorder data seemed to indicate the fuel control switches were physically moved to the cutoff position. Deliberate human intervention was involved."
Thanks. Wow. Wonder how I missed that - if it’s accurate ….
@hank- Not having direct access to the official report of the Indian government Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau Preliminary Report three days ago I believed the cautionary use of "seemed" to be appropriate. I have a major aversion to information presented as solid fact, if that is not necessarily the case. We have more than enough of that sort of thing from certain media sources and our own government.
"Flight Data Recorder and Cockpit Voice Recorder data seemed to indicate the fuel control switches were physically moved to the cutoff position. Deliberate human intervention was involved."
Thanks. Wow. Wonder how I missed that - if it’s accurate ….
But that word ”seemed”?
I decided to use the word "seemed." The choice of words was mine and does not reflect Captain Steeeve's declaration which was unambiguous. Perhaps this could have been stated somewhat differently...
Other aviation industry experts claim investigators have been highly selective in their reporting. One of the main complaints is the lack of a transcript from the cockpit voice recorder. Also, what was the engine status immediately before the fuel control switches were flipped? Pilots are trained to flip the fuel control switch to cut-off and back to restart an engine that is losing power. We may have to wait for the final report to obtain firm answers to some pending questions. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3lpdqp7x3o
Comments
Has your initial thinking in that regard changed substantially as new information has come to light?
Further … Assuming your initial thought was indeed the case, might the captain (riding in the right seat) have heard a click or noticed some arm movement from the First Officer and first thought it was the retraction of the gear? I’ve just re-watched the video and note that the landing gear appears to remain fully deployed as the plane descends. (WTF will they release the full cockpit audio? So many questions.)
I’m not trying to write a Hitchcock thriller. Like all here I want the investigation to dig more deeply and arrive at a plausible / accurate conclusion / cause. Technology on a modern plane like that should be sophisticated enough to identify the cause. Apparently they haven’t gotten around yet to video recording inside the cockpit as they do with audio.
@Old_Joe sometimes moves these types of threads to off-topic after a brief debut here. Perhaps @Crash will so consider.
A Boeing 787 pilot had stated:
"In these modern aeroplanes, you don't need to cut off the fuel control switch.
Everything is transmitted electronically. So, even if the fuel switch is in the run position,
it can go into the cutoff position without moving the fuel control switch.
The fuel can just shut off. If there is something wrong with the software,
it commands the fuel shutoff valve to close. With the fuel control switch still in run position,
the engines can shut down."
This pilot's comments suggested that fuel may have been cut off via software
even if the fuel control switches were not moved to the cutoff position.
Today I watched two very informative videos from Captain Steeeve.
Flight Data Recorder and Cockpit Voice Recorder data seemed to indicate
the fuel control switches were physically moved to the cutoff position.
Deliberate human intervention was involved.
Captain Steeeve analyzes the AAIB preliminary report for the AI 171 incident.
He does a very good job explaining what happened from a cockpit perspective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00ooqCuRoU8
Captain Steeeve answers viewer's questions about the AI 171 incident.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ5oHyNfcAE
U'mmm... yes. I thought that had been pretty well covered some days ago.
Thanks. Wow. Wonder how I missed that - if it’s accurate ….
But that word ”seemed”?
I decided to use the word "seemed."
The choice of words was mine and does not reflect Captain Steeeve's declaration which was unambiguous.
Perhaps this could have been stated somewhat differently...
Other aviation industry experts claim investigators have been highly selective in their reporting.
One of the main complaints is the lack of a transcript from the cockpit voice recorder.
Also, what was the engine status immediately before the fuel control switches were flipped?
Pilots are trained to flip the fuel control switch to cut-off and back to restart an engine that is losing power.
We may have to wait for the final report to obtain firm answers to some pending questions.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3lpdqp7x3o