Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
The DOJ filing against Apple is spot-on and very long overdue.
I especially like how they fantastically torpedo the usual 'security and privacy' justification Apple invokes in such situations.
"Apple wraps itself in a cloak of privacy, security, and consumer preferences to justify its anticompetitive conduct. Indeed, it spends billions on marketing and branding to promote the self-serving premise that only Apple can safeguard consumers’ privacy and security interests. Apple selectively compromises privacy and security interests when doing so is in Apple’s own financial interest—such as degrading the security of text messages, offering governments and certain companies the chance to access more private and secure versions of app stores, or accepting billions of dollars each year for choosing Google as its default search engine when more private options are available. In the end, Apple deploys privacy and security justifications as an elastic shield that can stretch or contract to serve Apple’s financial and business interests."
... yes, I'm a geek and lifelong Apple user & think they do offer some robust and mostly-trusted and reliable products*, but think this is a very good case. (It's also why I'm not all-in on the Apple ecosystem with my data and services.)
* except iCloud. They can't run a stable cloud service to save their lives, and imo the current iteration is held together with duct tape, bubblegum, and incantations uttered weekly by their engineering team.
... yes, I'm a geek and lifelong Apple user & think they do offer some robust and mostly-trusted and reliable products, but think this is a very good case. (It's also why I'm not all-in on the Apple ecosystem with my data and services.)
@rforno- I'm right there with you on this. Been an Apple user since my first Mac+, but don't at all like the way Apple has evolved. Other than browsing the internet in the "traditional" way, I personally store almost nothing on "the cloud". Local apps, local storage.
Exception: For occasional use on MFO I do store a couple of graphics on the cloud using free "ImgBB". That's it.
... yes, I'm a geek and lifelong Apple user & think they do offer some robust and mostly-trusted and reliable products, but think this is a very good case. (It's also why I'm not all-in on the Apple ecosystem with my data and services.)
@rforno- I'm right there with you on this. Been an Apple user since my first Mac+, but don't at all like the way Apple has evolved. Other than browsing the internet in the "traditional" way, I personally store almost nothing on "the cloud". Local apps, local storage.
Exception: For occasional use on MFO I do store a couple of graphics on the cloud using free "ImgBB". That's it.
I'm ok with using clouds and use Google @ work and Sync.Com for myself, which is more privacy-oriented than say, DropBox. I would go with iCloud because it offers true End-to-End-Encryption (E2EE) for cloud storage but as I said, Apple can't run a decent cloud service to save its life, and I value uptime and interoperability, not explanations and enshi**ification...
@rforno - I have an older purchased version of Filemaker Pro for local databases, and use Apple "Numbers" for spreadsheet needs. Also very good purchased (non-rental) drawing and graphic manipulation apps for construction project and electronic documentation.
Tons of fully backed up storage for all workproduct, email and graphics. See no need for cloud at all.
Same philosophy as housing or vehicles: buy, never rent. To the extent possible never allow anyone to have control over your life. I realize that this is in contradiction to many people's viewpoint, but it has worked for us, and we do sleep well at night.
Apple is pretty good for security but not so good for privacy. Like Old_Joe, I avoid using "the cloud" for storage or user apps. This is due to potential privacy, security, and sovereignty issues.
I think some companies no longer sell the download to desktop (one time payment) versions of their software applications, rather offer cloud subscription versions. I wonder how long MSFT Office will be available as a one time pay, desktop download version. That might force me to buy a new computer. I even use turbo tax desktop version.
It's quite possible to run two desktop computers using only one monitor and mouse/keyboard. Inexpensive and easy to setup and use switches are available and allow instant switching between the two computers. Apple computers are pretty easy to set up via your router to talk to each other and transfer compatible files between the two computers.
I use a setup like that with an obsolete Mac G5 which still runs 25-year old apps. Those apps are incompatible with the Mac Minis that we use for everyday purposes.
For example, the G5 still runs Claris CAD, which is totally incompatible with current Mac operating systems. However, the CAD files, once generated, can be saved as PDF files, and easily transported over to the Mini. Another option is to take screen shots of files on the G5, and transport those over to the Mini.
@rforno & @Old_Joe - Your issues with iCloud seem to emanate from more robust needs than iCloud can currently manage satisfactorily. How might these issues affect the casual users who most likely use the system just to store masses of photos/images/emails they've collected since the cloud became available?
( @Old_Joe - all this time I thought I was the only one who still used FileMaker Pro. Also, although I do use Numbers on occasion it doesn't handle imports from Excel or Google sheets very well. Probably just a user issue.)
@Mark - Hello there. I really have no info or opinion on the suitability of cloud storage for robust needs. My aversion to the cloud stems from my (pathological?) hostility to allowing faceless corporate actors to have any control over my life, to the extent possible.
This likely goes back to my hearing my parent's generation recall stories of the Great Depression, and their resolve to never buy anything on credit, except a home.... again, never allow anyone to control your life, if possible. So I use the internet, of course, but not for any function that I can maintain locally. Similarly, we use credit cards, but never run a balance due on them.
I do have fairly robust storage needs, with a large music library and many graphics files, but excellent hard drives are available at very reasonable cost, so I have no inclination to depend on the whims of the internet, or the dangers from bad actors on the internet.
You are right about the limitations of "Numbers" as compared to Excel, but these days my spreadsheet needs are minimal.
You may want to consider LibreOffice as a free, alternative office suite. LibreOffice is compatible with a wide range of document formats such as Microsoft® Word (.doc, .docx), Excel (.xls, .xlsx), PowerPoint (.ppt, .pptx) and Publisher. I don't have any first-hand experience with this office suite but have read positive reviews. https://www.libreoffice.org/discover/libreoffice/
I do not understand all of the Apple haters, which is not to say that they are perfect. However, I am an unabashed Apple lover. In my home, we have iPhones, iPads, Apple TV, Apple Watch, an iCloud account and an old iMac that we no longer use. We seldom have problems with any of these devices. And when we do, the problems are easily fixed by a simple call to the Apple helpline (at no charge.)
Before we bought our first iMac, we used various Windows- based computers that were continually locking up and getting infected with viruses. We had frequent service calls from a computer technician who would visit our house to debug everything and download the latest antivirus fixes. Before actually using the computer, we would have to turn it on and wait 10-15 minutes for all of the antivirus programs to run. Even then, the computer was so slow, and we had to keep updating to more expensive computers with more memory to run all of the software.
We decided to try an Apple computer out of desperation. The Apple salesman told us we shouldn’t be having the problems we were experiencing and that we didn’t need a more powerful computer than an iMac because they were bug-free. I was skeptical but took the bait. He was correct. Our iMac ran flawlessly from the start with never any problems with viruses. When you turn it on, it’s ready to use almost immediately. I never have to download antivirus software.
We were so impressed with the iMac, that we soon got iPhones and iPads. My iPad is so easy and intuitive to use, that it eventually became my computer of choice for nearly everything. It has essentially replaced the iMac, which now gathers dust — not because it’s bad, but because the iPad does everything much easier. I can buy a new iPad when needed for a fraction of the price of a desktop computer, and I can take it on trips, hold it in my lap, take photos with it and my iPhone, etc. All of my Apple products run seamlessly among each other. If I take a photo on my iPhone, I can instantly edit on my iPad if needed.
The iPhone has truly revolutionized communications. It’s not simply a phone, it’s a pocket computer that can also take amazing photos, send messages and emails, browse the internet, read the news, etc. Although expensive, I’ve never doubted its worth. I can truly say that I’ve gotten my money’s worth out of every Apple product that I own.
Much of the Apple hate seems to be driven by jealousy or wannabes. I get it. Number One in anything becomes a target. But let’s not forget that Apple is No. 1 for a reason— actually many, many reasons.
Microsoft users have their fans. They are great products if you are computer savvy enough to keep them running and virus-free. Or if you work in an office with a staff of computer technicians to keep them running. But for my purposes, it’s Apple all the way.
@rforno & @Old_Joe - Your issues with iCloud seem to emanate from more robust needs than iCloud can currently manage satisfactorily. How might these issues affect the casual users who most likely use the system just to store masses of photos/images/emails they've collected since the cloud became available?
Yes and no. I find Apple's reliability for iCloud (eg, "uptime") to be bad compared to most everyone else -- regular outages and hiccups. And then there's issues with data integrity where its sync process can mangle files. Threre's no versioning, so you can't recover a prior iteration of a file that got deleted or mangled. And it takes for-frakking-ever to sync things in large numbers. Those aren't 'optional extras' in my view, but basic functions for any cloud provider that need to be near-perfect. But to me (admittedly an old-school geek) iCloud just feels kludgy in more than a few ways.
If iCloud had better reliability ... and yes, some more features/flexibility akin to what other services offer and which I use regularly, I would seriously consider it. I do appreciate they're one of the few companies offering true end-to-end encryption for cloud file storage, though.
I do agree w/Tar --- compared to Windows machines, Apples/Macs/iPhones/iPads/etc are a joy to administer in most cases. They're the only systems I recommend to laypeople or older family members and are more than adequate for nearly everyone's routine computing needs or hobbies.
... and then Apple goes and does something like this...Not a good move by a company that purportedly places a high value on 'user privacy' ... this is the kind of arbitrary move Microsoft might make in its products (and did, back in the '90s)....
At the end of my non-profit career, I worked for an e-recycler; reuse being the highest form of recycling.
I have had my hand on lots of different hardware, including vintage McIntosh; but that's another story.
Apple operating systems are sound. But they don't keep people like my wife from getting into difficult situations that derail her work until Number 2 child helps her out. She listens to him. Before going into consultancy, she was regularly talking to her tech support people over an entire career in Apple land. Just the usual stuff I've seen everywhere tech is in use.
Apple hardware is notorious for built-in obsolescence. They are notorious for making it more and more difficult for anyone but them to repair their products. I believe these are two of the issues that now have them under investigation in the EU.
Apple isn't the only company churning out crappy hardware. But at least the rest of the industry relies on standard connectors, rather than inventing proprietary ones every two-three years. Well, the EU has already weighed in on that practice.
I use an Apple iPhone. It's wearing out too soon, but Android always feels like the worst Linux desktop anyone could think of. I'm typing on a used Latitude laptop running Xubuntu Linux. And I have a used Windows 10 PC, on which I can run a virtual machine in which Linux is running for my current main hobby that relies on tech.
I'm pretty much agnostic about all of the hardware/OS stuff. But I am always tickled by the fervor some feel for one thing or another, as if they were the hometown team.
It's never been about fervor for a piece of hardware. It's always been about reliability, ease of use and functionality. Apple products usually seem to work like I think they should work. From the beginning I've had no idea what Windows was thinking. Not arguing. The same applies to me choosing to drive a Silverado pickup and living in the woods. YMMV.
Hi, @Mark, most people don't get wound up about it. When I was working, I often ran into the types that do.
I have never been able to come to any conclusion about why some people gravitate to one system or another. But they all say pretty much the same thing. The system they like just makes more sense to them.
Silverado eh? I've heard what some Chevy drivers have to say about Ford.
Comments
I especially like how they fantastically torpedo the usual 'security and privacy' justification Apple invokes in such situations.
"Apple wraps itself in a cloak of privacy, security, and consumer preferences to justify its anticompetitive conduct. Indeed, it spends billions on marketing and branding to promote the self-serving premise that only Apple can safeguard consumers’ privacy and security interests. Apple selectively compromises privacy and security interests when doing so is in Apple’s own financial interest—such as degrading the security of text messages, offering governments and certain companies the chance to access more private and secure versions of app stores, or accepting billions of dollars each year for choosing Google as its default search engine when more private options are available. In the end, Apple deploys privacy and security justifications as an elastic shield that can stretch or contract to serve Apple’s financial and business interests."
... yes, I'm a geek and lifelong Apple user & think they do offer some robust and mostly-trusted and reliable products*, but think this is a very good case. (It's also why I'm not all-in on the Apple ecosystem with my data and services.)
* except iCloud. They can't run a stable cloud service to save their lives, and imo the current iteration is held together with duct tape, bubblegum, and incantations uttered weekly by their engineering team.
@rforno- I'm right there with you on this. Been an Apple user since my first Mac+, but don't at all like the way Apple has evolved. Other than browsing the internet in the "traditional" way, I personally store almost nothing on "the cloud". Local apps, local storage.
Exception: For occasional use on MFO I do store a couple of graphics on the cloud using free "ImgBB". That's it.
Tons of fully backed up storage for all workproduct, email and graphics. See no need for cloud at all.
Same philosophy as housing or vehicles: buy, never rent. To the extent possible never allow anyone to have control over your life. I realize that this is in contradiction to many people's viewpoint, but it has worked for us, and we do sleep well at night.
Like Old_Joe, I avoid using "the cloud" for storage or user apps.
This is due to potential privacy, security, and sovereignty issues.
It's quite possible to run two desktop computers using only one monitor and mouse/keyboard. Inexpensive and easy to setup and use switches are available and allow instant switching between the two computers. Apple computers are pretty easy to set up via your router to talk to each other and transfer compatible files between the two computers.
I use a setup like that with an obsolete Mac G5 which still runs 25-year old apps. Those apps are incompatible with the Mac Minis that we use for everyday purposes.
For example, the G5 still runs Claris CAD, which is totally incompatible with current Mac operating systems. However, the CAD files, once generated, can be saved as PDF files, and easily transported over to the Mini. Another option is to take screen shots of files on the G5, and transport those over to the Mini.
( @Old_Joe - all this time I thought I was the only one who still used FileMaker Pro. Also, although I do use Numbers on occasion it doesn't handle imports from Excel or Google sheets very well. Probably just a user issue.)
This likely goes back to my hearing my parent's generation recall stories of the Great Depression, and their resolve to never buy anything on credit, except a home.... again, never allow anyone to control your life, if possible. So I use the internet, of course, but not for any function that I can maintain locally. Similarly, we use credit cards, but never run a balance due on them.
I do have fairly robust storage needs, with a large music library and many graphics files, but excellent hard drives are available at very reasonable cost, so I have no inclination to depend on the whims of the internet, or the dangers from bad actors on the internet.
You are right about the limitations of "Numbers" as compared to Excel, but these days my spreadsheet needs are minimal.
OJ
You may want to consider LibreOffice as a free, alternative office suite.
LibreOffice is compatible with a wide range of document formats such as
Microsoft® Word (.doc, .docx), Excel (.xls, .xlsx), PowerPoint (.ppt, .pptx) and Publisher.
I don't have any first-hand experience with this office suite but have read positive reviews.
https://www.libreoffice.org/discover/libreoffice/
Before we bought our first iMac, we used various Windows- based computers that were continually locking up and getting infected with viruses. We had frequent service calls from a computer technician who would visit our house to debug everything and download the latest antivirus fixes. Before actually using the computer, we would have to turn it on and wait 10-15 minutes for all of the antivirus programs to run. Even then, the computer was so slow, and we had to keep updating to more expensive computers with more memory to run all of the software.
We decided to try an Apple computer out of desperation. The Apple salesman told us we shouldn’t be having the problems we were experiencing and that we didn’t need a more powerful computer than an iMac because they were bug-free. I was skeptical but took the bait. He was correct. Our iMac ran flawlessly from the start with never any problems with viruses. When you turn it on, it’s ready to use almost immediately. I never have to download antivirus software.
We were so impressed with the iMac, that we soon got iPhones and iPads. My iPad is so easy and intuitive to use, that it eventually became my computer of choice for nearly everything. It has essentially replaced the iMac, which now gathers dust — not because it’s bad, but because the iPad does everything much easier. I can buy a new iPad when needed for a fraction of the price of a desktop computer, and I can take it on trips, hold it in my lap, take photos with it and my iPhone, etc. All of my Apple products run seamlessly among each other. If I take a photo on my iPhone, I can instantly edit on my iPad if needed.
The iPhone has truly revolutionized communications. It’s not simply a phone, it’s a pocket computer that can also take amazing photos, send messages and emails, browse the internet, read the news, etc. Although expensive, I’ve never doubted its worth. I can truly say that I’ve gotten my money’s worth out of every Apple product that I own.
Much of the Apple hate seems to be driven by jealousy or wannabes. I get it. Number One in anything becomes a target. But let’s not forget that Apple is No. 1 for a reason— actually many, many reasons.
Microsoft users have their fans. They are great products if you are computer savvy enough to keep them running and virus-free. Or if you work in an office with a staff of computer technicians to keep them running. But for my purposes, it’s Apple all the way.
If iCloud had better reliability ... and yes, some more features/flexibility akin to what other services offer and which I use regularly, I would seriously consider it. I do appreciate they're one of the few companies offering true end-to-end encryption for cloud file storage, though.
I do agree w/Tar --- compared to Windows machines, Apples/Macs/iPhones/iPads/etc are a joy to administer in most cases. They're the only systems I recommend to laypeople or older family members and are more than adequate for nearly everyone's routine computing needs or hobbies.
Apple Turned On a Buried iPhone Setting. You Might Want It Off.
Joanna Stern
https://www.wsj.com/tech/personal-tech/apple-iphone-discoverable-by-others-journaling-suggestions-9d63086d?mod=wsjhp_columnists_pos3
I have had my hand on lots of different hardware, including vintage McIntosh; but that's another story.
Apple operating systems are sound. But they don't keep people like my wife from getting into difficult situations that derail her work until Number 2 child helps her out. She listens to him.
Apple hardware is notorious for built-in obsolescence. They are notorious for making it more and more difficult for anyone but them to repair their products. I believe these are two of the issues that now have them under investigation in the EU.
Apple isn't the only company churning out crappy hardware. But at least the rest of the industry relies on standard connectors, rather than inventing proprietary ones every two-three years. Well, the EU has already weighed in on that practice.
I use an Apple iPhone. It's wearing out too soon, but Android always feels like the worst Linux desktop anyone could think of. I'm typing on a used Latitude laptop running Xubuntu Linux. And I have a used Windows 10 PC, on which I can run a virtual machine in which Linux is running for my current main hobby that relies on tech.
I'm pretty much agnostic about all of the hardware/OS stuff. But I am always tickled by the fervor some feel for one thing or another, as if they were the hometown team.
I have never been able to come to any conclusion about why some people gravitate to one system or another. But they all say pretty much the same thing. The system they like just makes more sense to them.
Silverado eh? I've heard what some Chevy drivers have to say about Ford.