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yeah, OJ, the bootstraps arg is v v old and v v persuasive, and of course there is truth in it, as any schoolteacher knows, and as conservatives of color invariably trot out
it takes some undefensive sophistication to see that lazy or incompetent or sketchy or dumb-dumb people of color, or even the mass medium group of middling skills and ambitions and lifestyles, should get the same opps and treatments as whites of the type
it's usually cast as the good ones are all good and do well, what's the prob? and indeed salary camparisons of top earners and achievers of color are very close with the rest
this is what system and structure racism is, and why it is kinda hard to get one's mind around in this country if one has pink or yellow skin
I would be loath to call an individual a racist unless the evidence were clear, but not getting the system and built-in racist stuff is an easier call
@Old_Joe +++. Calling yourself a Southern Democrat and then looking up the history of that party said it all for me. Blind as you can be on race history.
Well, during the civil war period the "bad guys" were the Southern Democrats, and the "good guys" were the Northern Republicans. Needless to say, things are somewhat different now. I wonder what Lincoln would think of the present bunch.
The southern democrat tradition lasted well through the 1950's and 60's It wasn't just a Civil War party. Jim Crow, KKK, lynchings, segregation, that is the history. It changed when LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act. At that time he said the Democrats lost the South. Where did they go? Republican.
lemme see now... if I live in a crummy neighborhood with low property values then the property tax collected for my local school district will also be,,, h'mmm... low and crummy?
lemme see now... if I live in a crummy neighborhood with low property values then the property tax collected for my local school district will also be,,, h'mmm... low and crummy?
Usually, when Republicans like FD1000 talk about race, the term "personal responsibility" either comes up or is embedded in their arguments as it is in his case. This bogus every-man-for-himself bootstrapper argument denies that genes or environment--good or bad luck--shape individuals in ways that are completely out of their control and claims instead that outcomes are all about individual will and if only everybody worked hard and seized upon all of the great opportunities America affords, they would succeed. The implicit assumption is an old-fashioned racist one because it really is code for saying non-Caucasians are "lazy" and therefore that is the reason they earn less than whites, and it is really their own fault, not a racist system holding them back.
The other important aspect of this personal responsibility argument is that it's completely one-sided just like the socialism for the rich but capitalism for everyone else system we have today. What I mean is that what is the responsibility for America as a society to African Americans who weren't citizens but property from 1619 when the first slaves were brought to the U.S. until 1863 when Lincoln made the Emancipation Proclamation speech, and then subsequently turned those African Americans into second-class citizens and enslaved them in other ways via Jim Crow laws and a justice system that still today disproportionately punishes them, kills them, takes away their voting rights and enslaves them in prison via labor for virtually no wages? What is the personal responsibility for every other American and especially white Americans for benefiting from this inequitable system with first free labor, then cheap labor? Can even reparations make up for America's original sin?
Regarding the opportunities that exist in America, I would say the key difference between white and black and/or rich and poor is second chances. If you're poor and black, you might get one chance to succeed by managing to get educated in the inequitable public education system that David and Old Joe have already described. If that happens, you can succeed, enter the professional world or perhaps start a business, thereby entering the middle or even upper class. Our system loves such Horatio Alger stories because companies want tokens that show they are forward thinking and tolerant and everyone of every race and country should therefore buy their products. Nothing looks better than having an African American board member or executive to claim that we live in a post-racial society, even though the statistics for the average person of color speak otherwise. Luck plays an immense role here too, which is outside of one's control.
But if you're white, you get second chances even if you're poor because you likely know someone who will give you a decent job. The construction and contractor industries are full of such second chances that are mainly Caucasian.
Now if you're rich of any color, you get second or third or even fourth chances. But if you're rich and white, the number of chances is basically unlimited. That is precisely how we ended up with the president we currently have. Nothing quite symbolizes white privilege like Trump because he has failed so many times at so many things, having bankrupted multiple companies. No one poor--white or black--can claim the same. And if you're poor and non-Caucasian and screw up once, you're pretty much done for having a decent life in America.
Comments
it takes some undefensive sophistication to see that lazy or incompetent or sketchy or dumb-dumb people of color, or even the mass medium group of middling skills and ambitions and lifestyles, should get the same opps and treatments as whites of the type
it's usually cast as the good ones are all good and do well, what's the prob?
and indeed salary camparisons of top earners and achievers of color are very close with the rest
this is what system and structure racism is, and why it is kinda hard to get one's mind around in this country if one has pink or yellow skin
I would be loath to call an individual a racist unless the evidence were clear, but not getting the system and built-in racist stuff is an easier call
understanding systemic racism is often subtle, at least for me
one recent example is using property taxes to fund public education
think about that, for several minutes
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/opinion/black-lives-matter-corporations.html
The other important aspect of this personal responsibility argument is that it's completely one-sided just like the socialism for the rich but capitalism for everyone else system we have today. What I mean is that what is the responsibility for America as a society to African Americans who weren't citizens but property from 1619 when the first slaves were brought to the U.S. until 1863 when Lincoln made the Emancipation Proclamation speech, and then subsequently turned those African Americans into second-class citizens and enslaved them in other ways via Jim Crow laws and a justice system that still today disproportionately punishes them, kills them, takes away their voting rights and enslaves them in prison via labor for virtually no wages? What is the personal responsibility for every other American and especially white Americans for benefiting from this inequitable system with first free labor, then cheap labor? Can even reparations make up for America's original sin?
Regarding the opportunities that exist in America, I would say the key difference between white and black and/or rich and poor is second chances. If you're poor and black, you might get one chance to succeed by managing to get educated in the inequitable public education system that David and Old Joe have already described. If that happens, you can succeed, enter the professional world or perhaps start a business, thereby entering the middle or even upper class. Our system loves such Horatio Alger stories because companies want tokens that show they are forward thinking and tolerant and everyone of every race and country should therefore buy their products. Nothing looks better than having an African American board member or executive to claim that we live in a post-racial society, even though the statistics for the average person of color speak otherwise. Luck plays an immense role here too, which is outside of one's control.
But if you're white, you get second chances even if you're poor because you likely know someone who will give you a decent job. The construction and contractor industries are full of such second chances that are mainly Caucasian.
Now if you're rich of any color, you get second or third or even fourth chances. But if you're rich and white, the number of chances is basically unlimited. That is precisely how we ended up with the president we currently have. Nothing quite symbolizes white privilege like Trump because he has failed so many times at so many things, having bankrupted multiple companies. No one poor--white or black--can claim the same. And if you're poor and non-Caucasian and screw up once, you're pretty much done for having a decent life in America.
Regards- OJ
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/opinion/confederate-monuments-racism.html