Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
"The worst thing in the world for you folks would be if all boats rose."
You might just be right on that one, Maurice. Unfortunately, not too promising. The track record is much better at "piss on" as opposed to "trickle down".
Is there no middle ground online? Is everyone either a zero government libertarian patriot who believes there should be no taxes and everything should be privatized or a "Marxist Leninist" big guv'ment traitor who believes in collective ownership of everything? I suppose that's true in some people's Manichean view of the world, but not mine. These sorts of binary categorizations of people are absurd.
Songwriter John Stewart really understood how to capture the feelings and emotions of events in a song. Here is one of his songs that contributes to this discussion:
john stewart mother country song
I hope you enjoyed it as much as I do. It might even soften some of the hard positions taken in these discussions. No, not likely!
@Maurice. "You folks"....... Who are you talking about? Do you mean the 99% or anyone not of the party of ignorance, greed, division, fear and hatred? Do tell.
Kids then go to failing 'public' schools and learn little about what's needed for success.
Look up Hartford Public High School...second oldest Public school after Boston Latin. I taught there for 20 years...my mom coincidental attend in the 40's. Failing schools? Look up HPHS...The Pub'...worst of the worst from your stand point.
Here's the truth... If you were a Kid attending HPHS your gym teacher (remember the saying: those that can't "do"..."teach", and those that can't "teach", "teach PE" ?)....well these kids had Mr. Lindy Remingo as the PE teacher. Lindy was a Gold Medalist in the 1952 Helsinki Olympics. From this link:
After graduating from Manhattan, Remigino, who was named after aviation legend Charles Lindbergh, became a physical education teacher and track and field coach at Hartford Public High School, his alma mater. His teams there won 31 state titles and he guided 157 athletes to individual state championships.
There are many more teacher and student success stories just like Lindy's. This "failing" school cares deeply and defends (like here) Hartford kids, who often, are defenseless.
@BrianW, if you have ever dedicated yourself to something challenging I am sure your opinion of that experience would be much more worthy of our time.
It is true that HPHS is buried in the manure of inner city poverty, child neglect, crime, truancy, drugs, and in spite of all those obstacles many of these kids graduate and excel.
Above the entrance to my classroom read:
"When excellence is exhibited and expected, excellence happens."
Evidently you fail to understand the commenting rule set as evoked here by Ted and Maurice. Perhaps I can summarize.
Either you believe in and accept their definition and perspective on America, or you are:
1) a left-wing hate America writer. (@Ted, above) 2) promoting America's demise. (@Maurice, above) 3) obviously the radical left. (@Maurice, above) 4) in favor of American cultural demise. (@Maurice, above) 5) failing to see that the whole 1% and income inequality is BS. (@Maurice, above) 6) in favor of celebrating May Day. (@Maurice, above) 7) promoting demise, [which] is what the socialists have to offer. (@Maurice, above) 8) a Marxist-Leninist, fostering nothing more than a divide and conquer tactic. (@Maurice, above)
I may have missed something up there, but I'm sure that you can respect the general professional tone and overwhelming accuracy of their statements.
This dialogue is as close as I get to exchanging ideas with members of the ______old party. Thanks Ted and Maurice,,,, I can see why I don't waste my time. You can't argue with a sick mind.
@larryB- well, you can, but I'll have to tell you that it surely makes my head hurt...
Seriously, the only reason that I waste my time and energy on crap like theirs is because if no one challenges them, they win by default. Silence in the face of bullies is not a good thing.
that post I have referred to --- this is a common inequality counterargument, but nicely put. Takes into account not at all any extra burdening for birth, color, gender, all that stuff.
Jonathan Oronoque [[? maybe Stratford Ct]? ] May 29
The reason we are so rich is that we have a lot of freedom, including freedom to fail. All the new companies that have sprung up in the past 50 years, like Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, and Facebook would not have been possible in any other country. Our system makes it possible for outstanding individuals with an idea to found new companies and become unbelievably wealthy. The downside of this is this: if you want to reject the opportunities offered, and proceed on a downward path, no one will stop you. This is pretty much the way it's always been; the American economy is dynamic, but cruel. Only one in a hundred who sets out to get rich is actually successful.
@bee: you have mentioned one public school that apparently isn't failing. I stand by my opinion that financial literacy isn't taught. I also stand by my opinion that kids are not prepared for success. Too many American kids are not adequately educated to succeed. And, too often kids are sent to college to obtain some BS (bullcrap) degree they will never use, saddled with debt they cannot pay. If I had been wealthy enough to do so ,or, had the ability to choose a Charter school, my kids wouldn't have been sent to a public school. Above my head in air quotes reads 'Skill, Opportunity or Luck'.
I stand by my opinion that financial literacy isn't taught.
@BrianW- I absolutely agree with you on that, and it is something that I have groused about for many years. The thing is though, that as far as I'm aware it was never taught in the school systems, at least through high school.
With respect to charter schools, in some areas they are a definite improvement over the local school systems. But it is equally true that in other areas that is absolutely not the case, Betsey DeVoss notwithstanding. The country has been arguing over the best approach to schooling for at least fifty years now, and despite the spending of vast sums of money and attention from untold numbers of "professional educators" we don't seem to be any closer to an answer than when the discussion started. Unfortunately that seems to suggest that there may not be a simple one-size fits all answer.
One thing I instinctively know is not the answer: saddling students with absurd amounts of debt that they cannot realistically repay. The fact that our system accepts this cynical pay-to-play situation bespeaks a decadence that will be the eventual death knell for America.
@Old_Joe: I agree, financial literacy has never been taught. We are all here because we've learned how important it is to invest and prepare for retirement. Most of us could be caught saying, "I wish I had started sooner". What if we had been taught earlier the importance of saving early and often. What if they had knowledge of the expected lifetime earnings for a degree they wish to pursue? Is 'lifetime' earnings everything, of course not, but you're expecting the degree to pay-off the education debt (not to mention retirement). I also agree that charter schools may not be a panacea, but competition is a good thing.
@Old_Joe. Actually " you can't argue with a sick mind" Is the title of a 1976 album by Joe walsh. But seriously How can you reason with the likes of Maurice and Ted? If we take them as representative of their party then what's the point of talking,,,, their minds are gone.look at the 8 points you posted. My cat is brighter than those two and by extension their entire party.
@Maurice- Your commentary has degenerated to the point that it is a pathetic caricature of logic or reason. No response could be more damaging than the absurdity of your own posting. QED.
Far,far too much bitterness and personal attacks in these exchanges. None of this makes for better investment and financial,decision making. Here is a Link that just might help:
I quote from MFO's mission statements: "MFO’s mission is to provide readers with calm, intelligent arguments....." and "A lively discussion board, whose active members are diverse, lively, passionate …and occasionally hilarious."
These are very high and worthwhile goals and are even occasionally satisfied. I was not aware that the OT section of this fine website relaxes those standards. Emotional attacks just don't fit those high standards.
I respect and acknowledge your right to disagree. That's what makes a vibrant marketplace.
I didn’t intend to criticize MJG or anyone else with my perhaps flippant remark. In fact, I’m happy to see him back on the board. And, I respect the philosophy & guidelines MFO professes. I do think 90% or more of the time folks here are very civil towards one another.
I searched for a good up to date list of the Prez’s personal attacks - but it looks like the media stopped keeping score sometime after 2016. They’ve become common place. Almost daily. Even members of his own administration.
@hank- I knew that you were kidding... you had to be. But you do validate a point that I tried to make a while ago in the midst of an unusually acerbic exchange with Maurice: if you don't challenge these attacks, than by default they become so common that they become the "new normal" and we stop keeping score. Judging by the recent flurry of twittering nastiness reported by the nation's press, it would seem that nationally we have achieved that dubious goal, thanks in large part to the example set by the president.
So then it becomes a judgement call whether to continue to engage, unfortunately also creating a very uncomfortable environment for everyone, or to abandon the field to the Maurice's of the world. In this specific instance I believe that he has so obviously descended to the level of a mindless ongoing rant that he does himself far more damage than I could hope to inflict. So in the interest of civility to MFO I cede the field: have a good day, @Maurice. I hope that you enjoy the environment that you and your president have wrought.
@hank. I'm civil to those who are civil to me. I was bullied until I was 12 years old. I stopped taking s*** after that. The problem with the internet is that virtual bullying is rampant. I never start anything. But you can trust I will finish it.
So no need to say 90% of the people are civil, etc. Sometimes offense is taken when it was not intended. I think 100% of the people can get that. However, disagreeing with an opinion is one thing, but assigning labels to people? Sorry, no. Those people can dial 1-800-328-7448.
The top-earning 1 percent of households — those earning more than $607,000 a year — will pay a combined $111 billion less this year in federal taxes than they would have if the laws had remained unchanged since 2000. That’s an enormous windfall. It’s more, in total dollars, than the tax cut received over the same period by the entire bottom 60 percent of earners, ...
Comments
You might just be right on that one, Maurice. Unfortunately, not too promising. The track record is much better at "piss on" as opposed to "trickle down".
Songwriter John Stewart really understood how to capture the feelings and emotions of events in a song. Here is one of his songs that contributes to this discussion:
john stewart mother country song
I hope you enjoyed it as much as I do. It might even soften some of the hard positions taken in these discussions. No, not likely!
Best Wishes
@BrianW wrote: Look up Hartford Public High School...second oldest Public school after Boston Latin. I taught there for 20 years...my mom coincidental attend in the 40's. Failing schools? Look up HPHS...The Pub'...worst of the worst from your stand point.
Here's the truth... If you were a Kid attending HPHS your gym teacher (remember the saying: those that can't "do"..."teach", and those that can't "teach", "teach PE" ?)....well these kids had Mr. Lindy Remingo as the PE teacher. Lindy was a Gold Medalist in the 1952 Helsinki Olympics. From this link: There are many more teacher and student success stories just like Lindy's. This "failing" school cares deeply and defends (like here) Hartford kids, who often, are defenseless.
@BrianW, if you have ever dedicated yourself to something challenging I am sure your opinion of that experience would be much more worthy of our time.
It is true that HPHS is buried in the manure of inner city poverty, child neglect, crime, truancy, drugs, and in spite of all those obstacles many of these kids graduate and excel.
Above the entrance to my classroom read:
"When excellence is exhibited and expected, excellence happens."
Evidently you fail to understand the commenting rule set as evoked here by Ted and Maurice. Perhaps I can summarize.
Either you believe in and accept their definition and perspective on America, or you are:
1) a left-wing hate America writer. (@Ted, above)
2) promoting America's demise. (@Maurice, above)
3) obviously the radical left. (@Maurice, above)
4) in favor of American cultural demise. (@Maurice, above)
5) failing to see that the whole 1% and income inequality is BS. (@Maurice, above)
6) in favor of celebrating May Day. (@Maurice, above)
7) promoting demise, [which] is what the socialists have to offer. (@Maurice, above)
8) a Marxist-Leninist, fostering nothing more than a divide and conquer tactic. (@Maurice, above)
I may have missed something up there, but I'm sure that you can respect the general professional tone and overwhelming accuracy of their statements.
But if you seriously think income inequality is BS and everything is meritocratic, there's nothing to discuss, right.
Why are you trying to kneejerk w 'Marxist-Leninist'? Is that anyone who differs w you?
Stay on target, dude.
@larryB- well, you can, but I'll have to tell you that it surely makes my head hurt...
Seriously, the only reason that I waste my time and energy on crap like theirs is because if no one challenges them, they win by default. Silence in the face of bullies is not a good thing.
Jonathan
Oronoque [[? maybe Stratford Ct]? ]
May 29
The reason we are so rich is that we have a lot of freedom, including freedom to fail. All the new companies that have sprung up in the past 50 years, like Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, and Facebook would not have been possible in any other country. Our system makes it possible for outstanding individuals with an idea to found new companies and become unbelievably wealthy.
The downside of this is this: if you want to reject the opportunities offered, and proceed on a downward path, no one will stop you.
This is pretty much the way it's always been; the American economy is dynamic, but cruel. Only one in a hundred who sets out to get rich is actually successful.
@BrianW- I absolutely agree with you on that, and it is something that I have groused about for many years. The thing is though, that as far as I'm aware it was never taught in the school systems, at least through high school.
With respect to charter schools, in some areas they are a definite improvement over the local school systems. But it is equally true that in other areas that is absolutely not the case, Betsey DeVoss notwithstanding. The country has been arguing over the best approach to schooling for at least fifty years now, and despite the spending of vast sums of money and attention from untold numbers of "professional educators" we don't seem to be any closer to an answer than when the discussion started. Unfortunately that seems to suggest that there may not be a simple one-size fits all answer.
One thing I instinctively know is not the answer: saddling students with absurd amounts of debt that they cannot realistically repay. The fact that our system accepts this cynical pay-to-play situation bespeaks a decadence that will be the eventual death knell for America.
Is the title of a 1976 album by Joe walsh. But seriously
How can you reason with the likes of Maurice and Ted? If we take them as representative of their party then what's the point of talking,,,, their minds are gone.look at the 8 points you posted. My cat is brighter than those two and by extension their entire party.
Far,far too much bitterness and personal attacks in these exchanges. None of this makes for better investment and financial,decision making. Here is a Link that just might help:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/223843043958770289/
Then again, I've always been far, far too optimistic. Good luck, but more than luck is needed here.
Best Wishes
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
I quote from MFO's mission statements: "MFO’s mission is to provide readers with calm, intelligent arguments....." and "A lively discussion board, whose active members are diverse, lively, passionate …and occasionally hilarious."
These are very high and worthwhile goals and are even occasionally satisfied. I was not aware that the OT section of this fine website relaxes those standards. Emotional attacks just don't fit those high standards.
I respect and acknowledge your right to disagree. That's what makes a vibrant marketplace.
Best Wishes
So, you would hold us to a higher standard than the President of the United States?
@hank- My God, I certainly hope so!!
I didn’t intend to criticize MJG or anyone else with my perhaps flippant remark. In fact, I’m happy to see him back on the board. And, I respect the philosophy & guidelines MFO professes. I do think 90% or more of the time folks here are very civil towards one another.
I searched for a good up to date list of the Prez’s personal attacks - but it looks like the media stopped keeping score sometime after 2016. They’ve become common place. Almost daily. Even members of his own administration.
So it goes ...
So then it becomes a judgement call whether to continue to engage, unfortunately also creating a very uncomfortable environment for everyone, or to abandon the field to the Maurice's of the world. In this specific instance I believe that he has so obviously descended to the level of a mindless ongoing rant that he does himself far more damage than I could hope to inflict. So in the interest of civility to MFO I cede the field: have a good day, @Maurice. I hope that you enjoy the environment that you and your president have wrought.
So no need to say 90% of the people are civil, etc. Sometimes offense is taken when it was not intended. I think 100% of the people can get that. However, disagreeing with an opinion is one thing, but assigning labels to people? Sorry, no. Those people can dial 1-800-328-7448.
a new study out today
synopsis DLeonhardt NYT:
The top-earning 1 percent of households — those earning more than $607,000 a year — will pay a combined $111 billion less this year in federal taxes than they would have if the laws had remained unchanged since 2000. That’s an enormous windfall. It’s more, in total dollars, than the tax cut received over the same period by the entire bottom 60 percent of earners, ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/16/opinion/republican-war-on-poverty.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/01/opinion/2020-democrats-taxes.html