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Airfares?

edited January 2016 in Off-Topic
We travel by air 5 or 6 times a year and were shocked today when booking travel to Florida in March. With oil priced at only 25% of what it cost 2 years ago, what gives?

First, we find fares to Florida 20-30% higher than a year or two ago. I know the national average is less, but in shopping for flights that's what we find. Perhaps because low cost carrier Southwest has either raised fares a lot or reduced capacity.

Second, we find a new "class" of service at Delta. Their economy fare (not really cheap) now prevents choosing your (tiny) seat until after checking in for the flight, almost assuring you that you'll end up seated in between two behemoth passengers. If you want to choose a seat earlier you need to pay an extra $100 ($200 round trip) and upgrade to main cabin seating. What a scam.

Third, flight options and schedules have been shaved way back. At one of our favorite departure airports, Flint Michigan, I'll swear Southwest has scuttled half the Florida flights they inherited from AirTran a few years ago. Of those that remain, few are nonstop as they used to be.

It's funny until you start to think of where air fares will go once oil recovers and gets back up to $50, $60 or $75 bl.
I couldn't find anything to link that's current. However, I did see where DOJ is investigating for possible price collusion. LOL!





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Comments

  • edited January 2016
    Hi @hank

    Ya, quite the screw job, eh? Need to note all of this to our two U.S. senators and to your U.S. congress person.
    Past this.............Allegiant will take up the non-stops vacated by Southwest from Bishop to Florida; but not until April. Southwest claims they had to move aircraft to other new markets and increase Chicago routes. If Chicago routes don't make money, Southwest will likely leave the area.
    Several stories in this link.

    Good fortune with this.

    Catch
  • edited January 2016
    Geez. Thanks Catch. We ended up booking Delta out of Flint at pretty high fares. Yep - I'm no longer in love with Southwest after seeing what they did to the wonderful Flint operation AirTran ran.

    (PS - We're a bit closer to TVC, but avoid it in the winter due to unreliability)
  • edited January 2016
    Don't Drink the Water
    @Hank Hey,too bad you're not going to Mexico...The water's safer there? Enjoy your getaway.It's winter in the midwest.

    Four days after declaring a state of emergency over a water crisis in Flint, Michigan, Governor Rick Snyder is providing the city with bottled water..
    You gotta love how this evolved.
    “Their one job was to make sure our water was safe,” Melissa Mays, a Flint resident, said of Michigan environmental officials.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/us/flint-wants-safe-water-and-someone-to-answer-for-its-crisis.html?_r=0
    https://www.google.com/search?q=flint+michigan+water&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
  • At Hank: What kind of cabbage ($$$) are you talking about? Relative recently flew round trip back to WI. I'm thinking it was around $370.. I'll down check if you like.
    Derf
  • Hartford-Phoenix R/T recently on SWA was $430.00. Stops in BWI on the way out, MDW on the way back. That might be something of a bargain if it was all the way out to LAX. Ya, gas goes down, but fares do not. POSSIBLE price collusion? LAUGH.
  • edited January 2016
    @Derf ... Cabbage? Umm, to get into EYW (Key West International) from most Michigan locations (round trip) will cost you $600-$1000 depending on choice of seating and flight times. We're too far from Detroit Metro to use it without an additional overnight stay. But I'm sure it's a bit less.

    No need to check Derf. We've already bit the bullet.:) But thanks.
  • @hank Next time you could try Allegiant to Punta Gorda. And then from there, maybe Silver Airways flies to KW? Or Uber down to RSW and take Silver from there. Not the easiest place to get to, but definitely one of the prettiest!

    My New Year's resolution was to learn how to manage my rewards points better. The Points Guy has compiled a list of how much they are worth in dollar terms: http://thepointsguy.com/2014/01/just-how-much-is-an-airline-mile-or-hotel-point-worth/
  • Funny how supply/demand works. To survive the recession, most airlines reduced the size of their fleet, both in seats per plane and in numbers of planes. They also reduced the number of flights. And there are now fewer than half the number of airlines there were at our airport than there were 10 years ago. So now the recession is over, flights are full to over-sold, gas is cheap, and the airlines as a whole are profitable. We may not like it, but of course the airlines are raising prices because they CAN. The demand is high, and they number of seats/planes is less than it was 3-5 years ago.
  • @BobC Yes, and for some of these destinations (eg., Key West), there is little to no competition...therefore, the passengers are at the airlines' mercy.
  • edited January 2016
    @littlebee - Will never fly Silver again. Do feel free to Google customer complaints. They bring a new meaning to the term worst.. Also avoid United into EYW (and a number of other Florida spots) as those are operated by Silver.) EYW is tough, but is serviced by American and Delta. AirTran ran a fantastic operation into EYW for several years, but a few years after Southwest bought them out, they closed that operation down. (Similar to what Southwest has now done in Flint).

    Silver is the remnants of the old Gulfstream regional carrier which also ran the Gulfstream pilot training school in Fort Lauderdale until the FAA fined their pants off 5-10 years ago for using unsafe aircraft and crews. At one time, the co-pilots on the Gulfstream planes were actually paying to be flying the planes (as part of their training) rather than being compensated for their work.

    Re Flint - AirTran built a sizeable and fantastic low-cost service out of there over a decade. Was easily reachable via I-75 from many northern Michigan locations. Even people from our UP drove 4-5 hours to access the reliable service. Unfortunately, they began to compete with the Detroit metro market an hour south of there (where Southwest already had a large presence). Essentially. Southwest bought out a viable competitor in the region and (I believe) is now in the process of shutting it down (although they deny that).

  • @hank then this might be a good route to use points, if possible.
  • edited January 2016
    Interesting question: If I "pay" a competing business to shut down and stop competing against me so I can keep my prices up, that would be monopolistic and, I assume, illegal.

    But, If I "buy out" a competitor and than shut their existing operation down a few years later (essentially removing that capacity from the market) is that not monopolistic or illegal?

    In the case of air carriers such hanky-panky is easy to pull off because they can pull-out and take their airplanes elsewhere, not being tied down to any infrastructure. The real victims here may be the people of the Flint area, as mega-bucks have been poured into FNT airport over the past decade enlarging the facility. And a great many jobs were created.
  • I notice that the pricing remain high before the recession, and going higher in the past few years. For personal travel, we do many much more local travel with cars.
  • @hank, as surprising as it might seem to some, just being a monopoly or getting there is NOT illegal. What is illegal is using that position to effectively hurt the consumer. So, paying someone to shutdown to create a monopoly is not illegal, neither is buying out (although DoJ might block it on a related objective of maintaining competition) another and shutting it down even if it increases prices. You have to prove that the company is hindering competition with its position. Otherwise, if you shut down and increase prices, another competitor can come in and undercut prices. That is how free markets are supposed to work. Unless you collude to prevent that or somehow use your status to prevent a competitor from coming in...

    When Apple was accused of colluding with book publishers and found guilty, its PR defense was that what it was doing was because Amazon had a monopoly status in the electronic book buisness. But it didn't fly because what Amazon was doing with its clout was twisting the publishers to allow it to sell at a LOWER price than what the publishers wanted which was good for the consumer. What Apple wanted to do while claiming to fight a monopoly was the opposite for the consumer and good for Apple and the publishers. Apple wanted to get a market for itself by trying to deny the ability for Amazon to sell at a lower price with its clout and get a good deal for itself with the publishers for helping them with the "Amazon problem". Judge didn't buy that despite Apple fooling some of the media with its spin. So if you are a benevolent monopolist and use your clout to bring prices down for the consumer or have it lower than if you weren't a monopolist, it is not illegal at all. This is why having a monopoly by itself isn't illegal. You have to target a specific practice that is possible because of that position and show that it hurts consumers in the long run by not letting competition undercut artificially high prices somehow.
  • beebee
    edited January 2016
    Just recently drove to FL from CT. Four fill-ups at an average per gallon price of $1.85. Average 30 mile to the gallon...enjoyed the country. I helped re-position Hertz's fleet from NE to FL. Rental per day was $7.95. I was allowed two weeks which was mostly spent in FL with this very affordable rental. I return the rental to the airport that I found most affordable to get a one way flight home. This happens every year. Cars need to be re-positioned North in the Spring and South in the Fall. Check it out.
  • @bee Great idea...and RVs, as well!
  • @bee : What size auto were you able to attain for $7.95 /day? Was there a mileage charge & did the car come with pedals? LOL
    Derf
  • Derf said:

    @bee : What size auto were you able to attain for $7.95 /day?

    I stand corrected...$7.59/day. With fees and taxes a little over $232 for two weeks. No drop fee. No mileage fee.
    image
  • Nice going, bee! You play the system to the max!
  • If there is a possibility of returning to a nearby non-airport facility from where you can take a cab, you will avoid those ridiculous airport fees which is essentially a way for states and municipalities to tax out of staters over the locals who vote in their elections.:)

    I have done this a few times in my frequent traveling years when not too inconvenient.
  • bee, thanks for the come backer. I'm a rookie at this rental north -south deal.
    Derf
  • vkt said:

    If there is a possibility of returning to a nearby non-airport facility from where you can take a cab.

    That customer facility fee was a doosey ($84). I'll try your suggestion next time. Thanks.
  • Yes, the total charge seems like a fabulous bargain. The line-items gave me indigestion, though.
  • TedTed
    edited January 2016
    @MFO Members: We here in Chicago don't have the lack of or little service that those members who live in smaller cities. Round trip MDW to TPA round-trip $107.00 on LUV.
    Regards,
    Ted
    https://www.southwest.com/reservations/price-reservations.html?int=
  • vkt said:

    If there is a possibility of returning to a nearby non-airport facility from where you can take a cab, you will avoid those ridiculous airport fees which is essentially a way for states and municipalities to tax out of staters over the locals who vote in their elections.:)

    I have done this a few times in my frequent traveling years when not too inconvenient.

    I've done the reverse - rent outside the airport, and return to the airport. I wasn't charged the airport facility fee on the drop off. Only done this a couple of times, though.

    Oh, and what's that line about no taxation without representation?

  • @bee Is there a specific department/number at Hertz that you need to call to arrange this?

    Mona
  • Hank, are you being penalized for living in Michigan? I took a quick look at flights from Buffalo to Miami and see round trip flights from $220-$227 on American, United and Jet Blue. Slightly higher, $244, out of Rochester. That would be booking for a week in February and leaving on a Tuesday. I've found Tues, Wed flights get better rates,
  • edited January 2016
    Deleted most of rant here.

    But wanted to thank everyone for all the suggestions.
  • Mona said:

    @bee Is there a specific department/number at Hertz that you need to call to arrange this?

    Mona

    I believe this is a seasonal offer. You can drive North to South between Oct - Dec (my offer) or drive South to North in Apr-June. Many rental companies do this and as @little5bee mentioned the re-positioning of RVs is another option.
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