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Mod. Alloc. fund not named PRWCX (TRowe Price Cap. Apprec.)

edited August 2015 in Fund Discussions
My existing Mod. Alloc. funds have been disappointing me for too many years (not just returns wise), therefore, I am considering reallocating those dollars. I want solid returns but not overly volatile for this class. In other words, excelent risk/reward returns and good downside protection is preferred.

I'm looking to mitigate some of the volatility that my portfolio has. This down-turn has exposed some imbalances.

These dollars are in an Fido Brokerage IRA so C/G concerns are zero! I also have about a 10-15 year time frame, thus this is a long-term investment!


I've come across of few possible candidates, such as:

MBEAX/MBEYX (AMG Chicago Equity Partners)

RPBAX (TRowe Price Bal.)

JABAX (Janus Bal.)

FBALX (Fido Bal.)

and a couple of others.


Any thoughts on these funds or other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you, Matt
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Comments

  • FPACX and BUFBX are two of my favorites.
  • Although not technically referred to as a moderate allocation fund, its mandate allows it to venture into the moderate allocation: GLRBX
  • The first two are primarily large cap, FPA Crescent has the most flexibility. GLRBX would provide small and mid cap exposure.
  • edited August 2015
    Curious why you exclude PRWCX? I do a lot of "volatility mitigating" (to borrow your termonology). And I'm not sure it's fair to evaluate any of these funds based on recent performance (past 3-5 years).Underperformance may simply mean their managers are seeing insane valuations where others are seeing value and so are either hedging against equity losses or holding higher levels of cash.

    There's a lot of great ones. But here's my choices: OAKBX, TRRIX and PRPFX in roughly equal weightings. I toss them together in a group called "hybrids."

    Here's how they finished Friday: OAKBX -2%, TRRIX -1%, and PRPFX -0.7%
    Combined loss was -1.25%.

    (For reference, PRWCX lost 1.72%. Dow and S&P each lost 3%.)
  • he may be excluding PRWCX because it's closed to new investors.
  • How about VWELX?

    You can't open it at Fidelity, but you can open it at Vanguard, and AFAIK transfer it to Fidelity. I don't expect a transfer fee either way (i.e. Fidelity doesn't charge for partial transfers, and I don't believe Vanguard charges for transfers/closing mutual fund IRAs).

    Take $3K from you IRA and send it to a Vanguard IRA. You can do this by trustee-to-trustee transfer (which should save you tax filing paperwork), or just pull $3K from your Fidelity account and do a 60-day rollover. Then do an in-kind transfer of the fund back to Fidelity.

    That would get you access to the fund, save the $75 Fidelity commission for opening the account there (that is, if you could), and enable you to add to the position at Fidelity (just as you would with RPBAX).

    I've gone through this process to get access to a fund that was closed at brokerages, albeit not in an IRA and not a Vanguard fund. Pretty straightforward process.
  • I am a big fan also of JABAX and also, in the past, ICMBX (more mid-oriented). No need to leave Fido, I think. MAPOX is another, depending on where you live.
  • @davidrmoran MAPOX is another, depending on where you live.

    Care to elaborate?

    @BrianW I also own FPACX....I hope Romick is picking up some great equities for the fund with all of the cash he's holding.
  • @little5bee I'm hoping the same. I don't know if there's been enough carnage to make him bite, but he should be prepared.
  • I believe this might be what David means. Per M&P prospectus:
    The Mairs & Power Balanced, Growth, and Small Cap Mutual Funds are offered by Prospectus only. The Funds are not available for sale to investors residing outside of the United States...
  • MikeM said:

    I believe this might be what David means. Per M&P prospectus:

    The Mairs & Power Balanced, Growth, and Small Cap Mutual Funds are offered by Prospectus only. The Funds are not available for sale to investors residing outside of the United States...
    Possibly. Just as likely is the fact that at least in the past, M&P wasn't registered for sale in all of the 50 United States. I don't know what the current situation is (nor does it seem to be documented; one probably needs to call M&P).

    1996, Spokesman.com: "The fund [MPGFX] has stayed small in part because it was available only to investors who live in Minnesota for the first 11 years of its existence. Today it’s available in 12 states"

    2001, NYTimes: Expenses [for MAPOX] are a low 0.93 percent a year, partly because Mairs and Power reduces costs by marketing the fund in only 12 states. These include New York, New Jersey, California, Florida and Arizona."

    2004, M* thread: "MPGFX is only available in 32 states and the Balanced fund is only available in about 12."
  • No, no ex-US situation; rather by state.

    But I may have not kept up; sorry; meaning things have changed. I can now buy it via Fido ($50 fee). I still cannot buy it via ML. Only a few years ago no one in Massachusetts could buy it at all, along with many other states' residents.

    Also Frels is gone, but everyone appears to be thinking that succession and style are all good.

    I am no longer as keen on balanced funds as in the past, doing more of my own 50-50 mixing via DSENX [or other equity fund in different cap area] and PONDX and a few other more or less steady bond funds, which sure are hard to find these days.
  • @msf Possibly. Just as likely is the fact that at least in the past, M&P wasn't registered for sale in all of the 50 United States.

    Interesting...so, if you were buying through a fund marketplace like Schwab, they would "block" your account somehow, if you lived in a non-MAPOX state?
  • Matt, if you don't already own PRWCX, I would consider asking a friend if they would gift you one share of this fund in a taxable account. I know that some folks have a moral issue with gifting, but I don't if the fund company allows it. This is the best moderate allocation fund out there at this time. Disclosure: we own a 20% position in PRWCX.

    Another option to consider would be BRUFX.

    Kevin
  • Interesting...so, if you were buying through a fund marketplace like Schwab, they would "block" your account somehow, if you lived in a non-MAPOX state?

    Yup. I don't imagine it's that hard - they already have to block you from some securities if you're not "special" (e.g. an accredited investor).

  • I have been in AOMIX for years as my #1 core fund. I have been very happy with them.
  • Another email received from Ken Moraif......I copied and pasted the email where he issued his sell signal on Friday.

    "Money Matters is pleased to announce that Ken Moraif has been named by Barron’s for the fourth year in a row as one of the top 100 Independent Financial Advisors in the nation. Ken has jumped ahead significantly this year and is recognized as the 18th advisor in the rankings; he was listed as 31st in 2014, 40th in 2013 and 91st in 2012. The ranking showcases the nation's top advisors based on assets under management and revenue growth, as well as quality of the practice..."
    +++++++++++++++++
    I don't place any value in something like this, where somehow Barron's ranks financial advisors...and Ken Moraif is supposedly the 18th best financial advisor in the US. On what basis??

    and also:
    "Money Matters is also proud to be named one of the
    2015 Forbes Top 100 Wealth Managers!"

    First Barron's, now Forbes........
    "From the stock market's gyrations and the collapse in oil prices to tax planning and the guessing game around Federal Reserve rate hikes, investors have a lot to grapple with these days. More than ever they are turning to the counsel of independent financial advisors, judging by the swelling assets under management of the firms that make up Forbes' 2015 list of Top Wealth Managers. The 100 firms that made the cut collectively managed $468 billion at the end of 2014"

    Below is from Barron's:

    image

    How does Barron's decide that Ken Moraif is the 18th best financial advisor in the US??
    There's no way they could commit the resources to thoroughly study the financial advisors in America

    3.5 hours till the market open......
    I'm sure you're already on the case.....looking at the futures.....

    Cheers,
    Robert
  • Looks like the red sea!
  • So Ken Moraif is managing $3 billion.......
    Hmm....average account size $500,000
    My guess is that the fees on these $500,000 accounts is close to 1%.

    So that is $30 million per year for managing money.
    It's a can't lose business, because you get paid the same $3 million no matter what the market does, and no matter how well or poorly you do......

    Well, if his Friday sell signal turns out to be correct.......
    and I wonder if he has already executed the sell in all of his clients' accounts......seems like he didn't make this sell decision till Friday, and who knows what time.......he may not have had the time to execute, and might be selling into Monday's prices

    Anyway, if his Friday sell turns out to be right, he will advertise this till there's no tomorrow.....and one day soon be looking at $6 billion in assets......and $60 million per year for managing those accounts......

    I think we went into the wrong fields.......

    We could switch fields.....take the CFP curriculum and get the CFP designation, then start managing money.

    But it's all about marketing and sales......advertisements.......
    I'm sure his radio program is one big advertisement to get clients......

    The "hook", the "bait" can only be this:

    "You don't know what to do, but we do"
    "The stock market and investing are too confusing for you.......you don't know what to do with all the conflicting news reports out there.......but we know exactly what to do"

    "We will protect your hard earned savings"
    "We have the knowledge and experience that you don't have"

    OK, we have to market ourselves.....give people confidence in ourselves.........
    If we have doubts and don't know what to do....just don't tell our clients
    Always look and sound confident that we know what to do......

    Cheers,
    Robert
  • "It's a can't lose business, because you get paid the same $3 million no matter what"

    Correction: $30 million, not $3 million.
    I guess I was thinking that $3 million is a lot of money to make in a year.....how about $30M?

    Hmm.....I definitely went into the wrong business.
    Most of my career I worked for hospitals getting paid by the hour.
    You can't walk into a hospital's Human Resources Department and say you want to make $3 million a year.....Hmmm

    And when I got my DPT degree, doctor of physical therapy......I did not get even a one cent raise from human resources! They had a list of degrees that are listed as having an automatic increase in pay, but since no one who ever worked for that hospital ever got the DPT degree........now they have some, but I was the first employee of that hospital to ever get that degree........it wasn't on their list!

    It cost a lot of money and time and effort and energy to get that degree. So far it hasn't paid me a penny!!

    Maybe in a future job? Who knows......I could go back to work one day

    My future is unknown, including where I will be living 2 years from now.
    A state with no state income tax sounds appealing, like Texas, Florida, Nevada, etc.......

    The biggest appeal to California: my parents are not doing well.
    Second biggest appeal: the weather is superb in Los Angeles!
    So nice to not have extremes of cold and heat.......especially cold

    The worst part about L.A. : the cost of living......

    Cheers,
    Robert
  • @msf Yup. I don't imagine it's that hard - they already have to block you from some securities if you're not "special" (e.g. an accredited investor).

    I got into TIBIX at Schwab for $100k by begging!
  • otoh -- PRWCX has a lot in health care and could take quite the hit during the coming/arriving/already-here correction/sell-off/bear-mark/melt-down/fiasco. myself, i plan to DCA come hell or high water.
  • Art
    edited August 2015
    Below are the holdings for TIBIX.

    Cash 1.45%
    US Stock 36.87%
    Non US Stock 51.33%
    Bond 4.94%
    Other 5.41%
    As of 06/30/2015
  • Suggest Villere Balanced (VILLX) on the pullback. It had a misstep last year but great fund overall.
  • @msf Yup. I don't imagine it's that hard - they already have to block you from some securities if you're not "special" (e.g. an accredited investor).

    I got into TIBIX at Schwab for $100k by begging!

    Well isn't that special (Schwab normally sells those shares only to institutional investors).
  • msf said:

    @msf Yup. I don't imagine it's that hard - they already have to block you from some securities if you're not "special" (e.g. an accredited investor).

    I got into TIBIX at Schwab for $100k by begging!

    Well isn't that special (Schwab normally sells those shares only to institutional investors).
    Also, some brokers may not be as diligent as others in tracking what states a mutual fund is registered in. Case in point, earlier this year I tried to buy PVFIX at Fido and Schwab but was turned down by both since it was not registered in my state. After emailing the fund and learning from manager John Deysher that there were no plans to register the fund in my state any time soon, I placed an order for it at TD Ameritrade and it went through without a hitch.

    (Since I’m not sure what that says about TD’s compliance procedures, I’m going to transfer the shares to one of my other accounts once I’m beyond the account bonus pull-back period.)
  • FPACX, PRWCX, WHGIX, OAKBX all have their attractive points depending on what an investor wants from an allocation fund. TIBIX tends to have much more in internation stocks, since its number one goal is increasing dividends. Its record is outstanding, it sticks to its strategy through all market conditions, and we use it as a core hold in many client accounts.
  • edited August 2015
    @msf Well isn't that special (Schwab normally sells those shares only to institutional investors).

    Ha, ha!! Guess I'm special;) If you don't ask, the answer is always "no"!
  • edited August 2015
    @little5bee.
    I got into TIBIX at Schwab for $100k by begging!
    I like that...will have to try that sometime. My PCRA is with Schwab so I get the institutional rate, but normally TIBIX has $2.5M min. TIBAX imposes a 0.25% 12b-1 and a 4.5% max front load.
  • Risk/return metrics across current cycle for the five funds mentioned by BobC, sorted my Martin:

    image
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