Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
Given the subject matter of this posting, it was predictable that a heated, pejorative exchange would result. It did not disappoint as the “idiot” word quickly surfaced. Nobody on the MFO Board is an idiot, although I’m sometimes suspect of the references.
In describing these posts, a reference to Shakespeare’s Tomorrow speech from Macbeth seems appropriate:
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow, Creeps in this petty pace from day to day, To the last syllable of recorded time; And all our yesterdays have lighted fools, The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, That struts and frets his hour upon the stage, And then is heard no more. It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
Surely, none of you guys truly expected to change any opinions with your submittals. That never happens.
Positions were cast in stone before the very first words were exchanged. Based on your earlier postings, I could have accurately forecasted the two main camp proponents. I was not surprised; denials aside, positions were politically preordained.
When investing, this could be harmful to your wealth; economic agnostics will dominate the day. The dreadful battle and choice between private plunder (pure capitalism) and public graft (pure socialism) is a Loser’s game. History has proven that some compromise works best. Socialism experiments predate Christ. The struggle continues.
As historians Will and Ariel Durant concluded: “The fear of capitalism has compelled socialism to widen freedom, and the fear of socialism has compelled capitalism to increase equality.” Over time, a consolidation of the competing ideas will generate a happy and a prosperous society.
At this juncture, this is an endless debate without any prospects for resolution. It is equivalent to banging our heads against a brick-wall. The outcome is predictable. Therefore, I will not provide a ream of statistical references that can document either position.. These data will not alter any opinions whatsoever.
@MJG: OK, that does it. You are now my best friend, which I'm sure you will agree is a dubious privilege. Am just starting vol 10, "The Age of Rosseau". This is my second time through the set, and I definitely got more out of it this time. That may be because the first time I borrowed individual volumes from the library, with the associated time constraints. I found a complete set in excellent condition through Amazon a year or so ago, and am taking it slower this time through.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow, Creeps in this petty pace from day to day, To the last syllable of recorded time; And all our yesterdays have lighted fools, The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, That struts and frets his hour upon the stage, And then is heard no more. It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
Given the subject matter of this posting, it was predictable that a heated, pejorative exchange would result. It did not disappoint as the “idiot” word quickly surfaced. Nobody on the MFO Board is an idiot,
That is correct, no one here was called an idiot my great friend.
More apropos of the discussion.
All the world’s a stage, And all the men and women merely players; They have their exits and their entrances, And one man in his time plays many parts, His acts being seven ages. At first, the infant, Mewling and puking in the nurse’s arms. Then the whining schoolboy, with his satchel And shining morning face, creeping like snail Unwillingly to school. And then the lover, Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad Made to his mistress’ eyebrow. Then a soldier, Full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard, Jealous in honor, sudden and quick in quarrel, Seeking the bubble reputation Even in the cannon’s mouth. And then the justice, In fair round belly with good capon lined, With eyes severe and beard of formal cut, Full of wise saws and modern instances; And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts Into the lean and slippered pantaloon, With spectacles on nose and pouch on side; His youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide For his shrunk shank, and his big manly voice, Turning again toward childish treble, pipes And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all, That ends this strange eventful history, Is second childishness and mere oblivion, Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.
>> Surely, none of you guys truly expected to change any opinions with your submittals.
Surely I do, and have, and have been told so here more than once about my own efforts, and moreover have myself had the same from reading what other people have posted. (This meme of policy/intellectual entrenchment no matter what is so bogus. For some, anyway.) So you may find your mind unamenable, but not everyone.
It is interesting and just so weird that I am imputed some power or authority when what I chiefly do (having my own narrow and entirely other areas of actual expertise) is post the most mainstream smart thinking, I suppose what some would call of the liberal sort, but that too is a bogus useless designation. If for example if JC read economists like Krugman more (not him, but others nearly as distinguished), he would know that the there is no parallelism, Durantlike or other, with the Roaring '20s, and that Friedman is in some respects still widely respected and in other ways totally debunked, as in blown out of the water. With evidence and decades of data. A real pity it gets cast as liberal vs conservative or something. Socialism, the handiest bugaboo.
Here is something for JC and others if seriously interested, written at the cusp of the latest crisis, 07:
The post asserting victory is rubbish and boorish to the extreme.
After 102 submittals and nearly 300 viewers, nothing was settled. There was no opinion movement in either direction. To proclaim otherwise is pure garbage and completely devoid of any reality.
Some folks just don’t know when enough is enough. They don’t understand or don’t practice the advice offered by Kenny Rodgers in his insightful “The Gambler” song: “You've got to know when to hold 'em, Know when to fold 'em, Know when to walk away, Know when to run.”
For your enjoyment, here is a Link to that ever-popular song:
For some folks, quitting when the quitting is warranted is a lost art, or perhaps a never discovered art. As Winnie-the-Pooh wisely pontificated: “Never underestimate the value of doing nothing”.
Sometimes, the most challenging task is to simply sit still. We’ll see if that tactic proves its worth in this week’s stock market tsunami-like gyrations. Volatility is back with big time vengeance. Stay cool guys.
And for those who don't know that enough of Kenny Rogers is enough also (courtesy of GEICO, don't cha know):
The point of the GEICO commercial was that KR song has become boorish to the extreme especially when sung by KR. That meaning may have some meaning to some posts here. Not that I'm saying it does.
You are a fluke of the universe. You have no right to be here. Deteriorata. Deteriorata.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, And remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof. Avoid quiet and passive persons, unless you are in need of sleep. Rotate your tires. Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself, And heed well their advice, even though they be turkeys. Know what to kiss, and when. Consider that two wrongs never make a right, but that three do. Wherever possible, put people on hold. Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment, and despite the changing fortunes of time, There is always a big future in computer maintenance.
Remember The Pueblo. Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle, and mutilate. Know yourself. If you need help, call the FBI. Exercise caution in your daily affairs, Especially with those persons closest to you - That lemon on your left, for instance. Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls Would scarcely get your feet wet. Fall not in love therefore. It will stick to your face. Gracefully surrender the things of youth: birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan. And let not the sands of time get in your lunch. Hire people with hooks. For a good time, call 606-4311. Ask for Ken. Take heart in the bedeepening gloom That your dog is finally getting enough cheese. And reflect that whatever fortune may be your lot, It could only be worse in Milwaukee.
You are a fluke of the universe. You have no right to be here. And whether you can hear it or not, The universe is laughing behind your back.
Therefore, make peace with your god, Whatever you perceive him to be - hairy thunderer, or cosmic muffin. With all its hopes, dreams, promises, and urban renewal, The world continues to deteriorate. Give up!
Comments
That period ended in misery and despair.
My one and only post on this thread since Davidr will beat me with a stick to correct my Friedman ways.
Given the subject matter of this posting, it was predictable that a heated, pejorative exchange would result. It did not disappoint as the “idiot” word quickly surfaced. Nobody on the MFO Board is an idiot, although I’m sometimes suspect of the references.
In describing these posts, a reference to Shakespeare’s Tomorrow speech from Macbeth seems appropriate:
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools,
The way to dusty death.
Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more.
It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Surely, none of you guys truly expected to change any opinions with your submittals. That never happens.
Positions were cast in stone before the very first words were exchanged. Based on your earlier postings, I could have accurately forecasted the two main camp proponents. I was not surprised; denials aside, positions were politically preordained.
When investing, this could be harmful to your wealth; economic agnostics will dominate the day. The dreadful battle and choice between private plunder (pure capitalism) and public graft (pure socialism) is a Loser’s game. History has proven that some compromise works best. Socialism experiments predate Christ. The struggle continues.
As historians Will and Ariel Durant concluded: “The fear of capitalism has compelled socialism to widen freedom, and the fear of socialism has compelled capitalism to increase equality.” Over time, a consolidation of the competing ideas will generate a happy and a prosperous society.
At this juncture, this is an endless debate without any prospects for resolution. It is equivalent to banging our heads against a brick-wall. The outcome is predictable. Therefore, I will not provide a ream of statistical references that can document either position.. These data will not alter any opinions whatsoever.
Best Regards.
@MJG: OK, that does it. You are now my best friend, which I'm sure you will agree is a dubious privilege. Am just starting vol 10, "The Age of Rosseau". This is my second time through the set, and I definitely got more out of it this time. That may be because the first time I borrowed individual volumes from the library, with the associated time constraints. I found a complete set in excellent condition through Amazon a year or so ago, and am taking it slower this time through.
Regards
OJ
All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first, the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse’s arms.
Then the whining schoolboy, with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress’ eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honor, sudden and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the cannon’s mouth. And then the justice,
In fair round belly with good capon lined,
With eyes severe and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws and modern instances;
And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slippered pantaloon,
With spectacles on nose and pouch on side;
His youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide
For his shrunk shank, and his big manly voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.
Surely I do, and have, and have been told so here more than once about my own efforts, and moreover have myself had the same from reading what other people have posted. (This meme of policy/intellectual entrenchment no matter what is so bogus. For some, anyway.) So you may find your mind unamenable, but not everyone.
It is interesting and just so weird that I am imputed some power or authority when what I chiefly do (having my own narrow and entirely other areas of actual expertise) is post the most mainstream smart thinking, I suppose what some would call of the liberal sort, but that too is a bogus useless designation. If for example if JC read economists like Krugman more (not him, but others nearly as distinguished), he would know that the there is no parallelism, Durantlike or other, with the Roaring '20s, and that Friedman is in some respects still widely respected and in other ways totally debunked, as in blown out of the water. With evidence and decades of data. A real pity it gets cast as liberal vs conservative or something. Socialism, the handiest bugaboo.
Here is something for JC and others if seriously interested, written at the cusp of the latest crisis, 07:
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2007/feb/15/who-was-milton-friedman/
whenif you graduate from high school.Sigh. How about we just have a truce in this thread and be civil and move on from the arguing.
The post asserting victory is rubbish and boorish to the extreme.
After 102 submittals and nearly 300 viewers, nothing was settled. There was no opinion movement in either direction. To proclaim otherwise is pure garbage and completely devoid of any reality.
Some folks just don’t know when enough is enough. They don’t understand or don’t practice the advice offered by Kenny Rodgers in his insightful “The Gambler” song: “You've got to know when to hold 'em, Know when to fold 'em, Know when to walk away, Know when to run.”
For your enjoyment, here is a Link to that ever-popular song:
For some folks, quitting when the quitting is warranted is a lost art, or perhaps a never discovered art. As Winnie-the-Pooh wisely pontificated: “Never underestimate the value of doing nothing”.
Sometimes, the most challenging task is to simply sit still. We’ll see if that tactic proves its worth in this week’s stock market tsunami-like gyrations. Volatility is back with big time vengeance. Stay cool guys.
Best Wishes.
"To be, or not to be; that is the bare bodkin ..." http://www.viacorp.com/huckleberry-soliloquy.html
You are a fluke of the universe. You have no right to be here.
Deteriorata. Deteriorata.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste,
And remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Avoid quiet and passive persons, unless you are in need of sleep.
Rotate your tires.
Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself,
And heed well their advice, even though they be turkeys.
Know what to kiss, and when.
Consider that two wrongs never make a right, but that three do.
Wherever possible, put people on hold.
Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment,
and despite the changing fortunes of time,
There is always a big future in computer maintenance.
Remember The Pueblo.
Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle, and mutilate.
Know yourself. If you need help, call the FBI.
Exercise caution in your daily affairs,
Especially with those persons closest to you -
That lemon on your left, for instance.
Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls
Would scarcely get your feet wet.
Fall not in love therefore. It will stick to your face.
Gracefully surrender the things of youth: birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan.
And let not the sands of time get in your lunch.
Hire people with hooks.
For a good time, call 606-4311. Ask for Ken.
Take heart in the bedeepening gloom
That your dog is finally getting enough cheese.
And reflect that whatever fortune may be your lot,
It could only be worse in Milwaukee.
You are a fluke of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not,
The universe is laughing behind your back.
Therefore, make peace with your god,
Whatever you perceive him to be - hairy thunderer, or cosmic muffin.
With all its hopes, dreams, promises, and urban renewal,
The world continues to deteriorate.
Give up!