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I have never had at at any firm any retirement fund that was not free for life, or that charged for adding to / reinvesting in it. Indeed, that plus what funds are available is how I choose firms in the first place. No other criteria, certainly not website design.
The article says that due to competitive pressure, Vanguard, Price, and Scudder (remember them? - first noload fund) were waiving their IRA custodial fees. It goes on to say that Benham (now part of American Century) hadn't charged a fee in a decade (meaning that it charged a fee in the 80s). It says that Schwab charged a fee unless you had a balance of over $10K (hardly a "no fee" policy).
Here's another early 90s article with the same point (that families were beginning to waive custodial fees but with certain conditions like min balances), but different families:
- Dreyfus charged a custodial fee except for two of its funds - Vanguard and T. Rowe Price required a $5K min to waive fees (IRA contribution limit was $2K) - Twentieth Century (now American Century) required a combined balance of $10K across IRA funds to get a fee waiver - Fidelity Funds required $5K for a fee waiver - Fidelity brokerage waived fees for that same $5K balance
Not totally Germaine, but I like both sites better than TIAA-CREF. one of my biggest issues with them is that their index funds are also way too expensive. Also the brokerage section is totally opaque
Do you use TIAA-CREF, or are you observing from the outside? If you're "inside", I've got questions about all the funds that M* says are NTF at TIAA-CREF, but nowhere else. Such as WASAX, to take a random example. Is is really available at TIAA-CREF?
M* says that Schwab also sells it NTF (OneSource), but that's only available to institutional customers. Similarly, M* says that E*Trade sells it "No Load, Fee", but E*Trade charges the load. The only way to get correct, precise information is to go to the brokerage sites.
As you wrote, TIAA-CREF is opaque. Lots of interesting stuff listed in M*, but no way to tell if any of it is real.
American Century fee is $30 a year until you have $10k then it's waived. Also, like many other families, the more money you have with them the better the benefits. AC has the Priority Investor program.
@msf I hold a Roth IRA with them and inside of it have most of my funds in a self-directed brokerage window. That window has access to the Pershing FundVest world of funds. I'll note that according to M* it is also available on that platform NTF. When I research WASAX in my TIAA-CREF brokerage window, I get a dialogue box which informs me that the fund is available NTF, but that I can't buy it. I find this mystifying.
@jlev - Thanks for the info. Sounds like what's going on with Schwab (see above) - the fund is supposedly available through OneSource, but when you get to the site, you find that only institutional customers can buy.
Or something like what Fidelity does. Fidelity says that I can buy WASYX (a no load share of the same fund) with a $2500 min, but when I enter a test order, it is rejected with the message:
"The mutual fund you requested to trade is an Advisor Fund and is not available for retail trading."
@msf - knowing what I think I know about you have you tried (probably so) talking to a broker at Fidelity? In some cases they will resolve the issue for you w/o any fees attached but be clear on that beforehand. I did it once before with some fund but for the life of me I can't remember which fund or when.
@Mark Normally I would call and ask what is going on, but I've asked a related question of different brokerages enough to accept the system message as accurate.
It used to be fairly easy to purchase "advisor" shares, or other shares designed for advisors through some brokerages. For example, American Funds Class F (now F-1) shares. Most fund families have since clamped down on this. Now when I ask brokerages if I can transfer these shares to them (not even asking to buy more), I get answers like "no", or "yes, whoops no - only if you're working through an advisor". So I believe the message I get from Fidelity's system for the "Y" class shares.
The "A" shares I asked about are a bit different - they're supposed to be available at the retail level. The question is about a load waiver. If you look at load fund prospectuses, they'll usually say that they'll waive loads for shares purchased through wrap accounts (not quite phrased that way, but that's the effect). So when TIAA-CREF's system rejects a direct NTF buy of "A" shares, the underlying reason could be that this is allowed only for wrap accounts. Like Schwab listing a fund on OneSource, but when you look closely, you find they'll only sell it to institutional investors.
FWIW, Fidelity's system will sell you the "A" shares but with the load as one might expect. Also, my example of WASYX is just that, a conceptual example. I couldn't remember what fund(s) I had actually been interested in, so I picked one at random to test.
Comments
BW, stet.
I have never had at at any firm any retirement fund that was not free for life, or that charged for adding to / reinvesting in it. Indeed, that plus what funds are available is how I choose firms in the first place. No other criteria, certainly not website design.
The article says that due to competitive pressure, Vanguard, Price, and Scudder (remember them? - first noload fund) were waiving their IRA custodial fees. It goes on to say that Benham (now part of American Century) hadn't charged a fee in a decade (meaning that it charged a fee in the 80s). It says that Schwab charged a fee unless you had a balance of over $10K (hardly a "no fee" policy).
Here's another early 90s article with the same point (that families were beginning to waive custodial fees but with certain conditions like min balances), but different families:
Chicago Tribune, 3/15/1994, In Search Of Ira [sic] Investors
- Dreyfus charged a custodial fee except for two of its funds
- Vanguard and T. Rowe Price required a $5K min to waive fees (IRA contribution limit was $2K)
- Twentieth Century (now American Century) required a combined balance of $10K across IRA funds to get a fee waiver
- Fidelity Funds required $5K for a fee waiver
- Fidelity brokerage waived fees for that same $5K balance
M* says that Schwab also sells it NTF (OneSource), but that's only available to institutional customers. Similarly, M* says that E*Trade sells it "No Load, Fee", but E*Trade charges the load. The only way to get correct, precise information is to go to the brokerage sites.
As you wrote, TIAA-CREF is opaque. Lots of interesting stuff listed in M*, but no way to tell if any of it is real.
Or something like what Fidelity does. Fidelity says that I can buy WASYX (a no load share of the same fund) with a $2500 min, but when I enter a test order, it is rejected with the message:
"The mutual fund you requested to trade is an Advisor Fund and is not available for retail trading."
It used to be fairly easy to purchase "advisor" shares, or other shares designed for advisors through some brokerages. For example, American Funds Class F (now F-1) shares. Most fund families have since clamped down on this. Now when I ask brokerages if I can transfer these shares to them (not even asking to buy more), I get answers like "no", or "yes, whoops no - only if you're working through an advisor". So I believe the message I get from Fidelity's system for the "Y" class shares.
The "A" shares I asked about are a bit different - they're supposed to be available at the retail level. The question is about a load waiver. If you look at load fund prospectuses, they'll usually say that they'll waive loads for shares purchased through wrap accounts (not quite phrased that way, but that's the effect). So when TIAA-CREF's system rejects a direct NTF buy of "A" shares, the underlying reason could be that this is allowed only for wrap accounts. Like Schwab listing a fund on OneSource, but when you look closely, you find they'll only sell it to institutional investors.
FWIW, Fidelity's system will sell you the "A" shares but with the load as one might expect. Also, my example of WASYX is just that, a conceptual example. I couldn't remember what fund(s) I had actually been interested in, so I picked one at random to test.