Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
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New NASA studies show how the world is running out of water
More & more irrigation systems showing up in Southern WI.. DNR (?) is trying to get a handle on the situation as some country folks are finding their wells to be running dry . I wonder what the pay back time is ?
Good question. One show I saw not too long ago had farmers growing apple trees and some other fruit. The system was very simple, a plastic hose with a dropper attached at every tree the hose ran along the tree rows under leaf mulch. That would be relatively inexpensive I would guess. In another case, a greenhouse strawberry farmer had a computerized system that feed precise amounts of water to the plants. This system was solar powered to boot. This was a very large operation and the system must have cost a bundle.
I would guess that the answer depends on the crop being grown and the size and how complicated one wants to have the system.
Casually suggesting that large-scale import of "flood water", which is intermittently available at best, over the Rocky Mountain and the Sierra mountain ranges, from halfway across the United States, unfortunately fails to appreciate the scale and expense of the construction that would be required, or what the cost of that water would be if based upon the delivery expenses.
You missed this part: "A system of reservoir from the flood areas e.g. Miss. river to California would not be too difficult to envision.:
Additionally, if it gets to the point where we have to discuss as a nation that we have to start figuring out a way to send water by rail to California... geez.
@Scott, really like your investment idea on water.
I think getting water to US is more economical by pipelines given the sheer volume of daily usage. Today majority of water feeding southern California comes from series of acquiducts from the North. The old movie "Chinatown" captures the essence of water rights (money) in LA area. Don't think the drought situation will resolve quickly when water conservation is not utilized as much as it could.
Another point to think about, farmers in California are getting hit with restrictions now. That should cause food prices to go up if things get worse. Not a good scenario what with an economy on shaky legs.
I see more and more agriculture investing in low water usage irrigation systems. Similar to the drip lines already available. Australia, which deals with drought all the time is using these systems quite a bit these days in large greenhouse operations. The lack of water may push the U.S. in a similar direction.
I don't own either, but Valmont (VMI) and Lindsay (LNN) are plays on irrigation.
Additionally, if it gets to the point where we have to discuss as a nation that we have to start figuring out a way to send water by rail to California... geez.
@Scott, really like your investment idea on water.
I think getting water to US is more economical by pipelines given the sheer volume of daily usage. Today majority of water feeding southern California comes from series of acquiducts from the North. The old movie "Chinatown" captures the essence of water rights (money) in LA area. Don't think the drought situation will resolve quickly when water conservation is not utilized as much as it could.
Thanks!
I think the view with Ecolab and Danaher is that they have significant exposure to water, but also - especially ECL - a number of other relevant themes. Bill Gates remains one of the largest (if not the largest) shareholder of ECL. I don't think there's a company quite like Ecolab and it remains a buy and forget for me. While it's not recession proof, companies will continue to need hygiene/sanitation in various forms.
As for water rights, I've thought about that on a number of occasions and have explored investment options, such as JG Boswell (BWEL.PK), which sits on a considerable amount of water. Limoneira (LMNR) is another one, but both are in California. Maybe it's irritational, but I suppose I'm concerned about the idea that if the situation gets bad enough, water rights go out the window thanks to some sort of emergency order.
"Any one have thoughts on Veolia, VEOEF, in the water space? @Scott?"
I haven't really explored the company, but I know they were not in good shape a few years back and have engineered a considerable turnaround. They're in a fairly boring business, I'm not sure where it went wrong (apparently bad management) but it's done well lately. They did have an NYSE listing but delisted last year to cut costs. Not something I'm really interested in at first glance (no dividend - I believe they used to have a considerable dividend and may have dropped it recently) and just would personally rather the "water + other" plays I have (Ecolab/Danaher), both of which have pretty consistent track records over long periods.
I much like JohnChisum, use a rain water collection system.
I have four 100 gallon rain barrels that collect rain from my roof and then a 1,000 gallon under ground storage tank with pumping system that I use to water my front lawn and yard plantings. Usually, this will get me through when water restrictions prevail from our municipal government without having to draw off the city's water system. However, the last restriction limited "all" watering regardless of water source to rotating days and with time restrictions for each watering district. They just could not pump enough of it to meet demand and wanted to maintain water pressure in case of fire department needs that pull form the hydrants even though they have pumping equipment on their trucks to raise water pressure.
With this, I had a well pump and tank system installed about twenty five years ago that maintains water pressure within my home during high peak water demands.
Currently, I have just about pumped the rain barrel system dry as we have had very little rain since the last part of April. A good evening thunder storm that usually develops and moves through during the summer months would be welcome and would get my rain barrel system going again. In addition, my air conditioning system discharges its water to the rain barrel system. This produces about ten to twenty gallons per day during the air conditioning season. The sump pump in my basement discharges into the rain barrel system.
Should power blackouts develop from the heat creating high electricity demands, I have a stand by power generation system that runs off natural gas that I can fall back on.
With this, I am looking for rain and lower stock market valuations as we move through this, thus far, hot dry summer. And, don't count out power brownouts I feel they are in the cards too.
We are very busy remodeling/refurbishing our SF home, and just yesterday installed a diverter valve on the kitchen sink drain to store the waste water for irrigation.
I call Charlotte, NC home with a second residence in Murrells Inlet, SC.
In Mecklenburg County, I pay three charges that are water related. They are as follows: Water usage (about 35% of my bill), Sewer usage (about 55% of my bill), and a Storm Water fee (about 10% of my bill).
By utilizing my rain water system, I am saving thru reducing water & sewer usage billings from City of Charlotte & Mecklenburg County. In fact, the city has changed out my water meter form time-to-time due to my low volume useage as compared to other homes in my heighborhood. They wonder, why my grass is green and my neighbors mostly brown with my metered water useage well below my neighbors? They have even sent inspectors looking for a possible by-pass line that would by-pass my water meter; and, that I have a tap that is not metered that I use for irrigation. Hey, this simple rain water management system does work but has its limitations.
In Murrells Inlet, I pay fixed base charges (about 75% of bill) plus charges for water and sewer volume usage (about 20% of bill) along with service line maintenance (about 5% of bill). No storm water charge, yet.
With respect to preservation of the environment, the one meaningful action each person could take is to give up hamburger. Much water goes into beef production to say nothing of other resources used or abused in raising meat. I endorse Scott's picks of ECL and DHL for companies that will do good and do well.
@Old_Skeet, my hat off to you! My parents have done similar thing when we were growing up and we maintained a lush veggie garden water largely from rain water.
@Old_Joe Did CA cut off the water to the California Cuties? This time of year, they are normally large-bodied and plentiful. For the past 2 months, I didn't see them in any stores in Reno or Carson City, until last week when one store had a small display and they were tiny and half-green. It was as if the producers received a cut-off notice and said, "oh hell with it; pick 'em as they are, get what we can for them, and say our good-byes."
Comments
I wonder what the pay back time is ?
Derf
"I wonder what the pay back time is ?"
Good question. One show I saw not too long ago had farmers growing apple trees and some other fruit. The system was very simple, a plastic hose with a dropper attached at every tree the hose ran along the tree rows under leaf mulch. That would be relatively inexpensive I would guess. In another case, a greenhouse strawberry farmer had a computerized system that feed precise amounts of water to the plants. This system was solar powered to boot. This was a very large operation and the system must have cost a bundle.
I would guess that the answer depends on the crop being grown and the size and how complicated one wants to have the system.
"A system of reservoir from the flood areas e.g. Miss. river to California would not be too difficult to envision.:
If oil can get to CA, why not water?
http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Oil-Pipelines-Criss-Cross-the-United-States-Why-the-Fuss-Over-Keystone-XL.html
Allow private industry build it, just as for oil.
I think getting water to US is more economical by pipelines given the sheer volume of daily usage. Today majority of water feeding southern California comes from series of acquiducts from the North. The old movie "Chinatown" captures the essence of water rights (money) in LA area. Don't think the drought situation will resolve quickly when water conservation is not utilized as much as it could.
Thanks!
I think the view with Ecolab and Danaher is that they have significant exposure to water, but also - especially ECL - a number of other relevant themes. Bill Gates remains one of the largest (if not the largest) shareholder of ECL. I don't think there's a company quite like Ecolab and it remains a buy and forget for me. While it's not recession proof, companies will continue to need hygiene/sanitation in various forms.
As for water rights, I've thought about that on a number of occasions and have explored investment options, such as JG Boswell (BWEL.PK), which sits on a considerable amount of water. Limoneira (LMNR) is another one, but both are in California. Maybe it's irritational, but I suppose I'm concerned about the idea that if the situation gets bad enough, water rights go out the window thanks to some sort of emergency order.
"Any one have thoughts on Veolia, VEOEF, in the water space? @Scott?"
I haven't really explored the company, but I know they were not in good shape a few years back and have engineered a considerable turnaround. They're in a fairly boring business, I'm not sure where it went wrong (apparently bad management) but it's done well lately. They did have an NYSE listing but delisted last year to cut costs. Not something I'm really interested in at first glance (no dividend - I believe they used to have a considerable dividend and may have dropped it recently) and just would personally rather the "water + other" plays I have (Ecolab/Danaher), both of which have pretty consistent track records over long periods.
I have four 100 gallon rain barrels that collect rain from my roof and then a 1,000 gallon under ground storage tank with pumping system that I use to water my front lawn and yard plantings. Usually, this will get me through when water restrictions prevail from our municipal government without having to draw off the city's water system. However, the last restriction limited "all" watering regardless of water source to rotating days and with time restrictions for each watering district. They just could not pump enough of it to meet demand and wanted to maintain water pressure in case of fire department needs that pull form the hydrants even though they have pumping equipment on their trucks to raise water pressure.
With this, I had a well pump and tank system installed about twenty five years ago that maintains water pressure within my home during high peak water demands.
Currently, I have just about pumped the rain barrel system dry as we have had very little rain since the last part of April. A good evening thunder storm that usually develops and moves through during the summer months would be welcome and would get my rain barrel system going again. In addition, my air conditioning system discharges its water to the rain barrel system. This produces about ten to twenty gallons per day during the air conditioning season. The sump pump in my basement discharges into the rain barrel system.
Should power blackouts develop from the heat creating high electricity demands, I have a stand by power generation system that runs off natural gas that I can fall back on.
With this, I am looking for rain and lower stock market valuations as we move through this, thus far, hot dry summer. And, don't count out power brownouts I feel they are in the cards too.
Old_Skeet
I call Charlotte, NC home with a second residence in Murrells Inlet, SC.
In Mecklenburg County, I pay three charges that are water related. They are as follows: Water usage (about 35% of my bill), Sewer usage (about 55% of my bill), and a Storm Water fee (about 10% of my bill).
By utilizing my rain water system, I am saving thru reducing water & sewer usage billings from City of Charlotte & Mecklenburg County. In fact, the city has changed out my water meter form time-to-time due to my low volume useage as compared to other homes in my heighborhood. They wonder, why my grass is green and my neighbors mostly brown with my metered water useage well below my neighbors? They have even sent inspectors looking for a possible by-pass line that would by-pass my water meter; and, that I have a tap that is not metered that I use for irrigation. Hey, this simple rain water management system does work but has its limitations.
In Murrells Inlet, I pay fixed base charges (about 75% of bill) plus charges for water and sewer volume usage (about 20% of bill) along with service line maintenance (about 5% of bill). No storm water charge, yet.
Old_Skeet
This Is How Much Water It Takes To Make Your Favorite Foods
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/10/how-much-water-food-production-waste