Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
What I meant with my summary was fairly innocuous: while there can be a small benefit to doing some transactions in person (e.g. working through paperwork face to face as opposed to talking it through over the phone), that benefit is usually not so valuable as to make walking in necessary (essential).
There are some things you can do better in person and some not, since the personnel have no power and no greater access or make-it-happen than someone on the phone.
Fidelity is pretty clear about this both on the phone and in person.
One thing with BoA / ML where a friendly relationship w the local manager is sine qua non is large transfers of moneys and documentation thereof. I have helped both my kids recently with loans, oops, I mean gifts, large for our family (meaning tens of thou), and in all cases walking into the familiar branch to cut or deposit the check is waaaaay easier than doing it electronically, which indeed is sometimes impossible depending on amounts. Also and worse, one child's new mortgagor needed to see entire stupid paper trail in full detail from parent to child of a transfer gift, and the ONLY way to get that was to go to the BoA branch and have the manager print out their internal screenshots. It was simply wild. The child could get the good promised rate only if gift was clear and appeared clean, not, say, cash from her drug dealer, as they put it, and all of the normal BoA and ML docs and screenshots did not suffice. Fortunately this near-closing event was during the week, I was around, asst manager was on duty, and he understood and did everything promptly --- using, so far as I could tell, some kludge pre-windowing Unix-era system full of line commands and ascii form fields, sending it to a line printer they have for such older bank printouts. I took smartphone pix of the printed sheets while sitting in his c/s chair, and emailed them to the mortgagor and the girl in question, and all was well and happened in real time. Quite unbelievable in this day and age for it to have to be so. It is equally sketchy if you try to give or receive, say ,$40k from someone else.
Paper and a teller rule, still. Know your customer is banks' mantra nowdays, not that I have a problem with that in spirit.
What I meant with my summary was fairly innocuous: while there can be a small benefit to doing some transactions in person (e.g. working through paperwork face to face as opposed to talking it through over the phone), that benefit is usually not so valuable as to make walking in necessary (essential).
It's nice to know that BofA has the ability to print out screenshots.
It seems BofA lied to me about that when we applied for a credit card. BofA could only handle the application over the phone or in person, not online. Since I'd never get a copy (hard or soft) of an application submitted by phone, we tried in person.
BofA said that a banker would have to enter an application on the banker's computer. Further, we were told that it was unable to print out the application or screenshot of it, and the bank forbade me from taking my own picture of its proprietary screens. Glad you had a little more success with BofA.
Once we got the card, the bank failed to deposit the bonus points promised - just as Merrill Edge failed to deposit the promised cash bonus for transferring an account.
It's certainly true that sometimes paperwork is better handled in person. Though that should be a rare enough event with a brokerage that distance (within reason) need not be a major consideration.
Getting your printout as you described depended on a personal relationship. Isn't it possible to develop such relationships via phone? Especially when brokerages like Merrill seem to have a single rep at bank branches, so you can be sure to always talk with the same person? You can find Merrill reps' names and phone numbers here. (The link is to schedule personal meetings, but it's also good for simply finding names and numbers.)
"Know your customers" is a brokerage mantra (the thread is primarily about brokerages) because they're required to comply with FINRA Rule 2090, Know Your Customer, as of July 9, 2012. People may have noticed a flurry of "investor profile" forms being sent out a few years ago. Brokerages don't seem to care if you return them. So long as they can say they asked; it's pro forma.
As far as banks go, it's usually easier finding a nearby bank than brokerage. Ones that are truly involved with their neighborhoods and customers. I get great service from my community bank. They let us in before opening when we needed to get quick access to our safe deposit box. The notary there knows us, but it doesn't matter. Our bank provides this as a free service even if you don't bank with them.
Human interaction still matters. If you don't meet with your broker in person, you can't do the infamous Larry David eye stare to see if they're telling the truth:
Moreover, unless your broker is a psychopath or has a personality disorder, an unfortunately distinct possibility in the world of finance, he/she might feel more guilty and be less likely to rip you off if he/she has to look you in the eye instead of staring at a computer screen miles away. There is a famous study regarding Obedience to Authority and the potential for humans to behave like Nazis in this regard. Distance allows us to dehumanize one another in quite harmful ways:
Never used my BoA credit cards, not good enough. Is one not then dealing with a cc company, no longer BoA, really?
I have warm, useless relationships w/ a couple of ML people, dedicated handholding slightly intrusive but ultimately unproductive-for-me account exec (this for totally self-directed accounts) and a kid somewhere who project-managed the moving of lots (so to speak) of Fido moneys to ML for nontrivial 'rewards'.
But this not terribly interesting asst branch manager saga had nothing to do w ML, really, and the gift tracing / substantiation for child's mortgage efficiency and deadline-hitting could not and would not have taken place as it did without his savvy involvement based on our 'personal' relationship.
" less likely to rip you off if he/she has to look you in the eye"
Now there's a sad commentary. Not wrong, but sad. That there's a great enough chance of getting ripped off that it's worth the time and effort of meeting in person just to reduce that likelihood.
Not that face to face always helps. I opened my CC account in person, and I still didn't get the points promised. I even asked at the bank three times, literally, that I would get bonus points on the account.
I opened up my brokerage account in person and I still didn't get the transfer fee covered. Even though I specifically asked for and was promised reimbursement.
The CC points were credited once I complained by phone. I expect the transfer issues to be resolved satisfactorily as well, sooner or later.
This is why I try to get things in writing. Face to face may make these problems less likely, but when push gets to shove, it's best to have everything on paper.
"Never used my BoA credit cards, not good enough. Is one not then dealing with a cc company, no longer BoA, really?"
Many financial institutions outsource their branded credit cards to other banks. As is pretty well known here, "Elan Financial Services is the creditor and issuer of the Fidelity® Rewards Visa Signature® Card program". (Elan is a division of US Bank.) https://www.fidelity.com/cash-management/faqs-rewards-credit-cards
If you've got $100K in ME + BofA, the BofA travel card will get you 2.625% back on all purchases. (That has to be used against travel expenses, but the points don't expire, and a couple of airline tickets can make use of more points than most people would accumulate in a year.)
If you never spend money on travel, there's he vanilla cash rewards BofA card. It can give you 5.25% on gas, 3.5% on groceries and Costco (again with that $100K account balance). 1.75% on anything else, if one mistakenly uses the card for other expenses.
With careful use, these beat Fidelity's 2%, and should always beat "What's in Your Wallet?" Capital One's 1.5%. Good enough for me, at least.
I had a TDA account but closed it due to customer service issues. TDA has a six-month holding period for mutual funds which is the longest of any of the brokerages I dealt with, and they charge $49.95 for transaction-fee mutual funds. They also were recently charging a load on Pimco A shares. IIRC Fidelity and Schwab charge $4.95 for online trades.
You shouldn't sell a fund within 6 months anyways....
Cool summary, tnx; am using Fido, Amex Blue, and Costco Visa, depending on what's being bought, but am now gonna dive into studying details above. We don't travel much (old dog) but will eventually, and sure do spend a lot at Costco.
What is the mutual fund holding period to avoid early redemption fee at Fidelity and Schwab? I've been at TDA only for a short time, the main problem I had was when I called to inquire about commissions re certain mutual funds/ETFs, the rep was not knowledgeable, gave me wrong answers, before either transferring the call to a more knowledgeable person or correct the answer after double checking at my insistence. I'm also not happy about the long 6 month mutual fund holding.
How about a fund like RPHYX? What if something unexpected comes up and you need a little more cash than you were planning to spend in the next six months.
While I agree that generally funds shouldn't be sold quickly, why put yourself in a straightjacket? For anyone with discipline, it's better to have more flexibility, just in case.
@msf I agree about the flexibility issue, and if Fidelity, Schwab and E-Trade all have shorter holding periods than TDA, then why let TDA limit your flexibility.
How are the trading platforms at Fidelity and Schwab, comparing to Thinkorswim.?
I also have trouble understanding the cash/money market redemption transactions. While I did nothing, they still show some transactions like redemptions, which I guess was the brokerage using my money.
Comments
BTW, the closest Fidelity office to Oro Valley is, you guessed it, "open by appt. only."
Fidelity is pretty clear about this both on the phone and in person.
One thing with BoA / ML where a friendly relationship w the local manager is sine qua non is large transfers of moneys and documentation thereof. I have helped both my kids recently with loans, oops, I mean gifts, large for our family (meaning tens of thou), and in all cases walking into the familiar branch to cut or deposit the check is waaaaay easier than doing it electronically, which indeed is sometimes impossible depending on amounts.
Also and worse, one child's new mortgagor needed to see entire stupid paper trail in full detail from parent to child of a transfer gift, and the ONLY way to get that was to go to the BoA branch and have the manager print out their internal screenshots. It was simply wild. The child could get the good promised rate only if gift was clear and appeared clean, not, say, cash from her drug dealer, as they put it, and all of the normal BoA and ML docs and screenshots did not suffice.
Fortunately this near-closing event was during the week, I was around, asst manager was on duty, and he understood and did everything promptly --- using, so far as I could tell, some kludge pre-windowing Unix-era system full of line commands and ascii form fields, sending it to a line printer they have for such older bank printouts.
I took smartphone pix of the printed sheets while sitting in his c/s chair, and emailed them to the mortgagor and the girl in question, and all was well and happened in real time.
Quite unbelievable in this day and age for it to have to be so.
It is equally sketchy if you try to give or receive, say ,$40k from someone else.
Paper and a teller rule, still. Know your customer is banks' mantra nowdays, not that I have a problem with that in spirit.
It seems BofA lied to me about that when we applied for a credit card. BofA could only handle the application over the phone or in person, not online. Since I'd never get a copy (hard or soft) of an application submitted by phone, we tried in person.
BofA said that a banker would have to enter an application on the banker's computer. Further, we were told that it was unable to print out the application or screenshot of it, and the bank forbade me from taking my own picture of its proprietary screens. Glad you had a little more success with BofA.
Once we got the card, the bank failed to deposit the bonus points promised - just as Merrill Edge failed to deposit the promised cash bonus for transferring an account.
It's certainly true that sometimes paperwork is better handled in person. Though that should be a rare enough event with a brokerage that distance (within reason) need not be a major consideration.
Getting your printout as you described depended on a personal relationship. Isn't it possible to develop such relationships via phone? Especially when brokerages like Merrill seem to have a single rep at bank branches, so you can be sure to always talk with the same person? You can find Merrill reps' names and phone numbers here. (The link is to schedule personal meetings, but it's also good for simply finding names and numbers.)
"Know your customers" is a brokerage mantra (the thread is primarily about brokerages) because they're required to comply with FINRA Rule 2090, Know Your Customer, as of July 9, 2012. People may have noticed a flurry of "investor profile" forms being sent out a few years ago. Brokerages don't seem to care if you return them. So long as they can say they asked; it's pro forma.
As far as banks go, it's usually easier finding a nearby bank than brokerage. Ones that are truly involved with their neighborhoods and customers. I get great service from my community bank. They let us in before opening when we needed to get quick access to our safe deposit box. The notary there knows us, but it doesn't matter. Our bank provides this as a free service even if you don't bank with them.
Moreover, unless your broker is a psychopath or has a personality disorder, an unfortunately distinct possibility in the world of finance, he/she might feel more guilty and be less likely to rip you off if he/she has to look you in the eye instead of staring at a computer screen miles away. There is a famous study regarding Obedience to Authority and the potential for humans to behave like Nazis in this regard. Distance allows us to dehumanize one another in quite harmful ways:
I have warm, useless relationships w/ a couple of ML people, dedicated handholding slightly intrusive but ultimately unproductive-for-me account exec (this for totally self-directed accounts) and a kid somewhere who project-managed the moving of lots (so to speak) of Fido moneys to ML for nontrivial 'rewards'.
But this not terribly interesting asst branch manager saga had nothing to do w ML, really, and the gift tracing / substantiation for child's mortgage efficiency and deadline-hitting could not and would not have taken place as it did without his savvy involvement based on our 'personal' relationship.
Now there's a sad commentary. Not wrong, but sad. That there's a great enough chance of getting ripped off that it's worth the time and effort of meeting in person just to reduce that likelihood.
Not that face to face always helps. I opened my CC account in person, and I still didn't get the points promised. I even asked at the bank three times, literally, that I would get bonus points on the account.
I opened up my brokerage account in person and I still didn't get the transfer fee covered. Even though I specifically asked for and was promised reimbursement.
The CC points were credited once I complained by phone. I expect the transfer issues to be resolved satisfactorily as well, sooner or later.
This is why I try to get things in writing. Face to face may make these problems less likely, but when push gets to shove, it's best to have everything on paper.
Many financial institutions outsource their branded credit cards to other banks. As is pretty well known here, "Elan Financial Services is the creditor and issuer of the Fidelity® Rewards Visa Signature® Card program". (Elan is a division of US Bank.)
https://www.fidelity.com/cash-management/faqs-rewards-credit-cards
Previously, when Fidelity offered its 2% Amex card, that was through "Bank of America’s FIA Card Services."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-fidelity-banks-creditcards/fidelity-drops-credit-card-partners-american-express-bank-of-america-idUSKBN0UI0BW20160104
The TBTF banks process their own cards. BofA, Citibank, Chase, etc. So if you've got a BofA card, you're dealing with BankAmerica.
https://wallethub.com/edu/credit-card-companies/20409/
If you've got $100K in ME + BofA, the BofA travel card will get you 2.625% back on all purchases. (That has to be used against travel expenses, but the points don't expire, and a couple of airline tickets can make use of more points than most people would accumulate in a year.)
If you never spend money on travel, there's he vanilla cash rewards BofA card. It can give you 5.25% on gas, 3.5% on groceries and Costco (again with that $100K account balance). 1.75% on anything else, if one mistakenly uses the card for other expenses.
With careful use, these beat Fidelity's 2%, and should always beat "What's in Your Wallet?" Capital One's 1.5%. Good enough for me, at least.
While I agree that generally funds shouldn't be sold quickly, why put yourself in a straightjacket? For anyone with discipline, it's better to have more flexibility, just in case.
I also have trouble understanding the cash/money market redemption transactions. While I did nothing, they still show some transactions like redemptions, which I guess was the brokerage using my money.