Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
Old_Joe, I agree with a lot of what you and a few others have said. Things do get out of hand sometimes, they get personal and that's really the problem more than politics per se. A great example is how you seem to sarcastically and personally attack MJG almost every time he suggests Monte Carlo simulations, which as you like to point out is pretty often. It's therefore a bit ironic that you and a couple others have pointed out Ted's lack of consistency ad infinitum and then you're a great advocate of free speech unless it involves Monte Carlo simulations. You and the same others can help to solve the problem just as much as you're all so eloquent at identifying it.
1. I respect David's inclination (hard to get the right word here) that the off-topic area in general be utilized for investment/financial topics which may relate to one's fund investments or which serve to benefit their overall financial knowledge and well being (financial journalism). I'll strive to adhere to that standard.
2. @LewisBraham: Regarding the image, @Maurice would be "grandfathered" in, as the image belonged to him before any "Trump ban" would take effect. In addition, Maurice's recent comments re this subject made eminently good sense (as @Old_Joe noted) and while I may disagree with him, I've never known Maurice to be mean or petty in expressing his differences. He did however set the off-topic bar a bit low with this June 2012 "test" post: http://www.mutualfundobserver.com/discuss/discussion/comment/2678/#Comment_2678
3. To everyone: I've always thought the board mainly very civil, even when I've disagreed sharply with others. The brusque rebuff or sharp "elbow" occasionally evident (both given and received) seem pretty mild compared to the manner of discourse prevalent in our society at present. Heck, I have close relatives I can't even mention politics to - so divergent are our beliefs. That prevailing climate of openness and tolerance at MFO is a tribute to the membership and to David's leadership.
4. Moderate ruthlessly if you will. But I wouldn't wish that job on anyone.
From @bee, January 2013:"This site reminds me of an irish pub...people of all ages getting together to spin a story, share a laugh, banter an opinion, celebrate a success, pour over a loss, throw around some hot tongue...collectively bubbling up between the music and song of hopeful good fortune or at least blind optimism. MFO is a place you miss when you're away and a place that doesn't seem the same when you're not there ... ". http://www.mutualfundobserver.com/discuss/discussion/comment/18203/#Comment_18203
Before I sorta disappear, the best thing to do seems to be a self-ignore on those that call one out. Certain people will never agree on these subjects. It takes away the opportunity to have discourse but that is a personal prerogative.
Hello. Longtime reader of MFO and grateful to so many of you for your online debates and conversations about many things relating to investing, the economy, and yes -- politics. It's all connected.
The thing I'm not understanding about this particular thread is simply why is there an issue? No one is forcing anyone to read or comment. If I'm turned off by a thread/conversation that feels/reads like something I don't wish to follow, I simply don't.
The conversations are worthwhile to the people having them -- until they're not. And when that happens, withdraw. Debate passionately -- but know that you probably won't change minds. The debate is still potentially useful to someone. Accept that no one "wins" these kinds of debates. I view it more as an indication of how good people can deeply disagree. Thankfully we live in a place where that's possible.
To wrap up my two cents: please don't shut down the off-topics thread.
Thank you again to all of you who have posted through the years.
@VirtueRunsDeep - Occam's razor comes to mind, maybe your solution is too easy or still too difficult for some to comprehend. Others just like to bitch and/or can't handle not getting their way.
Anna here. The only posts I don't enjoy are the posts about what other people should be allowed to post. This is, by in large, a superior intelligence crowd. Children still, perhaps, but capable of self wiping. Sharing your opinion and not your stink would be the best rule for off topic.
Overall, the quality of self-control from posters here has always been at very high levels; versus what I have seen over the years at other investment discussion sites, of which, I no longer visit.
Yes, conversations drift to the "dark side". I stay away (may read/no post) and expect a short life span for these threads.
"Off topic" here, as its own category, has a place for discussions about an action that may affect an investment area or sector. I've asked questions in the OT area about an action (interest rates,etc.) that may affect an investment area; but the question does not directly or necessarily relate to a particular fund, but is indeed investment related.
I have asked questions (via OT) that have nothing to do with investing, because I have high regard for the knowledge of members here. Examples include: cell phone replacement choices, anti-virus software recommendations, etc. This aspect of the discussion board continues to provide a sense of community here IMHO; as if we were sitting at the "MFO diner" chatting about "whatever".
I suspect most folks here are fully serious about and have great passion for the growth of their hard earned monies; to have this money to continue to work and perform as they have in their lives of earning the money, for the benefit of whomever into the future. One would and probably should expect some of this passion and energy to show its face in other forms upon occasion. But, personal attacks and belittlement have no place in discussions here.
In much too short a time, too many of the familiar avatar names here will be gone. I for one, hope that some little trinket of a thought or words I have expressed in writing will prove to be of benefit to someone.
When one provides a contribution to a discussion, IMHO; you should always view this with the potential that you are indeed being a positive mentor.
Small summary: ---the OT category has value ---there will remain here, those without courtesy or grace ---readers here, longtime or new; I suspect would tend to discard investment viewpoints from those they perceive as attackers and drum beaters involved in non-investment discussions ---lack of courtesy, grace and outright attacks by individuals here, have caused several knowledgeable folks to no longer participate here ---direct participation is key to the survival of this forum; as readers and lurkers only, provide for no viable future existence
I STILL RECOMMEND THIS SITE to the very few I know who want to educate themselves regarding investments, with the reminder of some threads that crash off the tracks.
Too much jabber from me, about this. I've wasted enough of your and my time.
I've been on vacation for the last week, so maybe I've missed why this "severe moderation" is needed, particularly for off topic posts. Did I miss something exciting?
@LLJB- Yeah, you're right. I shouldn't be so hard on ol' mjg. It'll be a struggle, but I'll try to be nice. Pedantry isn't a capital offense, I suppose, even though maybe it should be.
Comments
1. I respect David's inclination (hard to get the right word here) that the off-topic area in general be utilized for investment/financial topics which may relate to one's fund investments or which serve to benefit their overall financial knowledge and well being (financial journalism). I'll strive to adhere to that standard.
2. @LewisBraham: Regarding the image, @Maurice would be "grandfathered" in, as the image belonged to him before any "Trump ban" would take effect. In addition, Maurice's recent comments re this subject made eminently good sense (as @Old_Joe noted) and while I may disagree with him, I've never known Maurice to be mean or petty in expressing his differences. He did however set the off-topic bar a bit low with this June 2012 "test" post: http://www.mutualfundobserver.com/discuss/discussion/comment/2678/#Comment_2678
3. To everyone: I've always thought the board mainly very civil, even when I've disagreed sharply with others. The brusque rebuff or sharp "elbow" occasionally evident (both given and received) seem pretty mild compared to the manner of discourse prevalent in our society at present. Heck, I have close relatives I can't even mention politics to - so divergent are our beliefs. That prevailing climate of openness and tolerance at MFO is a tribute to the membership and to David's leadership.
4. Moderate ruthlessly if you will. But I wouldn't wish that job on anyone.
From @bee, January 2013:"This site reminds me of an irish pub...people of all ages getting together to spin a story, share a laugh, banter an opinion, celebrate a success, pour over a loss, throw around some hot tongue...collectively bubbling up between the music and song of hopeful good fortune or at least blind optimism.
MFO is a place you miss when you're away and a place that doesn't seem the same when you're not there ... ". http://www.mutualfundobserver.com/discuss/discussion/comment/18203/#Comment_18203
◼
Most people here at MFO have lived long enough to be entitled to an opinion yet are still young enough to hopefully be full of sh*t.
We are all a work in progress.
The thing I'm not understanding about this particular thread is simply why is there an issue? No one is forcing anyone to read or comment. If I'm turned off by a thread/conversation that feels/reads like something I don't wish to follow, I simply don't.
The conversations are worthwhile to the people having them -- until they're not. And when that happens, withdraw. Debate passionately -- but know that you probably won't change minds. The debate is still potentially useful to someone. Accept that no one "wins" these kinds of debates. I view it more as an indication of how good people can deeply disagree. Thankfully we live in a place where that's possible.
To wrap up my two cents: please don't shut down the off-topics thread.
Thank you again to all of you who have posted through the years.
Yes, conversations drift to the "dark side". I stay away (may read/no post) and expect a short life span for these threads.
"Off topic" here, as its own category, has a place for discussions about an action that may affect an investment area or sector. I've asked questions in the OT area about an action (interest rates,etc.) that may affect an investment area; but the question does not directly or necessarily relate to a particular fund, but is indeed investment related.
I have asked questions (via OT) that have nothing to do with investing, because I have high regard for the knowledge of members here. Examples include: cell phone replacement choices, anti-virus software recommendations, etc. This aspect of the discussion board continues to provide a sense of community here IMHO; as if we were sitting at the "MFO diner" chatting about "whatever".
I suspect most folks here are fully serious about and have great passion for the growth of their hard earned monies; to have this money to continue to work and perform as they have in their lives of earning the money, for the benefit of whomever into the future. One would and probably should expect some of this passion and energy to show its face in other forms upon occasion. But, personal attacks and belittlement have no place in discussions here.
In much too short a time, too many of the familiar avatar names here will be gone. I for one, hope that some little trinket of a thought or words I have expressed in writing will prove to be of benefit to someone.
When one provides a contribution to a discussion, IMHO; you should always view this with the potential that you are indeed being a positive mentor.
Small summary:
---the OT category has value
---there will remain here, those without courtesy or grace
---readers here, longtime or new; I suspect would tend to discard investment viewpoints from those they perceive as attackers and drum beaters involved in non-investment discussions
---lack of courtesy, grace and outright attacks by individuals here, have caused several knowledgeable folks to no longer participate here
---direct participation is key to the survival of this forum; as readers and lurkers only, provide for no viable future existence
I STILL RECOMMEND THIS SITE to the very few I know who want to educate themselves regarding investments, with the reminder of some threads that crash off the tracks.
Too much jabber from me, about this. I've wasted enough of your and my time.
Respectfully,
Catch