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Wall St. Protestors Target Homes of Top Executives
Anybody else find this troubling? Am pretty liberal as past posts indicate. Agree with lot of the greviences. Especially taking the monkey off the back of the lower & middle class with this tax system we got. Protest? You bet. But, at what point does it cross the line?
I feel it's over the top, but when you've been laid off because your job was shipped overseas, the market meltdowns melted-down your net worth, no one will even consider hiring you now because you've been unemployed for over a year, you've lost your home to foreclosure . . . I'm sure you see where this is headed. Folks can get real crazy over stuff like this and while I don't condone all of their actions, I can certainly understand why this is happening.
Oh, and I really see this as just the beginning. Alas. It's too bad that it will probably come to spilled blood and rioting in the streets before anyone in Washington even takes notice . . . and then they'll want to send in the troops.
Give them 'bread and circuses'. Ooops, forget the bread. What they've be better off doing is to legalize all the recreational drugs and tax the living hell out of them. Otherwise, the innercities are going to explode.
Well said Rono. Always appreciate your thoughts. CNBC reports Dimon, Koch, and Murdoch among the names of those being visited. Have to confess, made me grin a bit.
Hi there Hank- Am I correct in guessing that your headline/title should actually say "Wall St. Protestors rather than "Protectors"? Hard to imagine a whole lot of people who would want to "protect" Wall Street right now! I take Rono's point, but I also had to grin a bit... maybe a bit of tree-rattling IS well overdue. Hard to feel a lot of empathy for Dimon and Murdoch, for sure.
I understand your concern and I hope the crowd doesn't contain any bad apples or people with their own bad agenda. But I do understand why they have shifted (I think). The response from a lot the Wall Street and associated tycoons has been reported to be demeaning and mocking. Since they are looking for empathy, this is a rather stupid way to respond to them. Empathy is cheap and can always have a respectfully delivered "However,". I think it is typical, even if misguided, to personalize a grievance when people want their concerns addressed and they perceive that their concerns are being treated somewhat lightly, if not unimportant. In other words, they feel it IS personal.
JPM's Dimon buys some "stock" in the NYC Police Dept...
"JPMorgan Chase recently donated an unprecedented $4.6 million to the New York City Police Foundation. The gift was the largest in the history of the foundation and will enable the New York City Police Department to strengthen security in the Big Apple. The money will pay for 1,000 new patrol car laptops, as well as security monitoring software in the NYPD’s main data center.
New York City Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly sent CEO and Chairman Jamie Dimon a note expressing “profound gratitude” for the company’s donation.
“These officers put their lives on the line every day to keep us safe,” Dimon said. “We’re incredibly proud to help them build this program and let them know how much we value their hard work.”
Well, this link was sent to me a month before the Sept 17 start of this.........protest. I did note to the original sender that the story implied current union organization(s) and/or leaders. I found that the irony of this implication is that the "Wall St." that was/is to be the target is also involved with the investments within the union pension funds and perhaps some of those protesting; in my reply to the sender.
I suspect after having read the very first stories of the very small Sept. 17 turnout and for the following several days; before the big media started to pay attention, that this "movement" has/is and will continue to evolve into whatever areas those choose to protest against; dependent upon those locally involved and their particular issues.
You may use your own judgement to the "long" story of the link. I have listened for a very short period of time in the past few days to a few on the tube attempting to understand, explain and/or discover who is or was behind this movement.
For those here who are younger than age 60, have not studied the history of the 1960's or for the many I know who lived very close to some of those noted in the story and/or the cities named; but were involved with making a living and forming familes and were not aware of what was taking place around them. These are not ignorant people; but not unlike so many from any generation, the experiences each will have may be varied to a very large degree.
There are two things that I am quite sure about related to the baby boomer generation, of which I am a segment: All of us are grouped together with a mathmatical range of birthdates established with a begin date and an end date relative to the parents after the end of WWII. The other area I am quite sure about is that there are at least 10 subsets of of culture within the baby boomers age range. A most wide range of events and conditions that shaped or did not shape a most radical change period in the U.S.; depending upon where you lived, whether or not the Vietnam War affected you, your family or those you knew. There is no pure lumping together those of the baby boom era. A most well done reference that involves many aspects of this period are related in the movie; American Grafitti. One will find the wide variety of people of the generation; and likely similar to other generations, too.
If you choose to read the linked story; whether a boomer or not, you will learn a few tidbits about some aspects of the more radical movements of the period.
Reply to @Maurice: I find it a bit scary too, especially power of the Internet. Not interested in conspiracy theories on the origins of protest. But am very curious how you would deal with this if in charge Maurice, seeing it is quite widespread around the nation. Would you arrest all and lock em up? Disperse with water cannons? Call in the National Guard? Pay for cleanup? Assumes they have money to pay with. (-:
Well, all, I DO remember more than a few discussions back on FA in which a fair number of you were in general agreement that the "powers that be" were systematically engaged in the deliberate destruction of the middle class in this country, and you were also generally of the opinion that we have been largely disenfranchised by the fact that Big Business/Wall Street owns Congress, for all practical purposes.
And when I wondered why, since the prescribed legislative processes have now excluded us from any effective political input, there were not groups of us marching in the streets, more than a few of you folks thought that really wasn't such a bad idea.
Now I have no more idea than anyone else exactly "who is behind" the current protest, but why exactly is it all of a sudden such a "bad thing"?
So I also have a question for Maurice: If there is no effective way for certain classes of citizens to be heard via the normal political process, what exactly would you recommend?
Reply to @Maurice: Us, Maurice, us. Those that are doing or have done their fair share to support the "system", only to see that system respond by shipping our jobs offshore to the lowest bidder, and to steadily chip away at everything from health care to retirement. To reduce the American working middle class to the very lowest world-wide denominator. Or haven't you noticed?
Reply to @Maurice: The fact we are discussing them is testimony they are being heard. The reason I asked how you would handle this is it appeared you were blaming the government in office -especially the executive branch- for the situation. Perhaps I misunderstood your intent. Not sure there is a good way to stop the peaceful protests. Acts of violence have to be prosecuted of course. Since as stated at the onset I share many of their greviences, I'd take affirmative action to address those. Like approving the administration's jobs bill, getting rid or tax loop holes and provisions that allow GE to pay no taxes and Buffett's secretary and house keeper to pay a higher % of their income in taxes than he does. Make sure lenders obey the law and don't take unfair advantage of mortgage borrowers with robo signing and the like. Cut the rhetoric about the "job creators" and focus more on the problems of the "job doers." Stop the insane arms race and spend the money on roads, schools and universities and scholarships for the needy and deserving. And Oh, forgot one. Stop bashing the Fed. They have a dual mandate and every time they try to stimulate this comatose economy and maybe cause some jobs to be created certain elements cry "wolf". Getting late in our part of country. Really gotta go. Take care.
HEY!!, this is the Off Topic board and therefore we're able to talk about things that are not strictly related to mutual fund investing. Folks starting to protest against Wall Street I feel is very related to investing.
First off, this is not a democratic, nor republican protest. Hell, the dems in washington are just as bad as the republicans. feh. Obama is no damn different than Junior, other than the color of his skin and Hillary is reminding me more and more of Cheney.
That said, I really fear that this is the beginning of some very nasty times. Wall St. doesn't care about americans and washington only cares about wall street.
As for the protesters, they're completely unorganized and thereby fairly disfunctional. For a social movement to succeed, you need a layered organization with a centralized leadership. With only the former, you gain acceptance while the latter allows you to accomplish your goals.
Comments
I feel it's over the top, but when you've been laid off because your job was shipped overseas, the market meltdowns melted-down your net worth, no one will even consider hiring you now because you've been unemployed for over a year, you've lost your home to foreclosure . . . I'm sure you see where this is headed. Folks can get real crazy over stuff like this and while I don't condone all of their actions, I can certainly understand why this is happening.
Oh, and I really see this as just the beginning. Alas. It's too bad that it will probably come to spilled blood and rioting in the streets before anyone in Washington even takes notice . . . and then they'll want to send in the troops.
Give them 'bread and circuses'. Ooops, forget the bread. What they've be better off doing is to legalize all the recreational drugs and tax the living hell out of them. Otherwise, the innercities are going to explode.
peace,
rono
I understand your concern and I hope the crowd doesn't contain any bad apples or people with their own bad agenda. But I do understand why they have shifted (I think). The response from a lot the Wall Street and associated tycoons has been reported to be demeaning and mocking. Since they are looking for empathy, this is a rather stupid way to respond to them. Empathy is cheap and can always have a respectfully delivered "However,". I think it is typical, even if misguided, to personalize a grievance when people want their concerns addressed and they perceive that their concerns are being treated somewhat lightly, if not unimportant. In other words, they feel it IS personal.
JPM's Dimon buys some "stock" in the NYC Police Dept...
"JPMorgan Chase recently donated an unprecedented $4.6 million to the New York City Police Foundation. The gift was the largest in the history of the foundation and will enable the New York City Police Department to strengthen security in the Big Apple. The money will pay for 1,000 new patrol car laptops, as well as security monitoring software in the NYPD’s main data center.
New York City Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly sent CEO and Chairman Jamie Dimon a note expressing “profound gratitude” for the company’s donation.
“These officers put their lives on the line every day to keep us safe,” Dimon said. “We’re incredibly proud to help them build this program and let them know how much we value their hard work.”
link:
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/is-jp-morgan-getting-a-good-return-on-4-6-million-gift-to-nyc-police-like-special-protection-from-occupywallstreet.html
Well, this link was sent to me a month before the Sept 17 start of this.........protest.
I did note to the original sender that the story implied current union organization(s) and/or leaders. I found that the irony of this implication is that the "Wall St." that was/is to be the target is also involved with the investments within the union pension funds and perhaps some of those protesting; in my reply to the sender.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/guest-post-tracing-the-origins-of-the-days-of-rage-protest/
I suspect after having read the very first stories of the very small Sept. 17 turnout and for the following several days; before the big media started to pay attention, that this "movement" has/is and will continue to evolve into whatever areas those choose to protest against; dependent upon those locally involved and their particular issues.
You may use your own judgement to the "long" story of the link. I have listened for a very short period of time in the past few days to a few on the tube attempting to understand, explain and/or discover who is or was behind this movement.
For those here who are younger than age 60, have not studied the history of the 1960's or for the many I know who lived very close to some of those noted in the story and/or the cities named; but were involved with making a living and forming familes and were not aware of what was taking place around them. These are not ignorant people; but not unlike so many from any generation, the experiences each will have may be varied to a very large degree.
There are two things that I am quite sure about related to the baby boomer generation, of which I am a segment: All of us are grouped together with a mathmatical range of birthdates established with a begin date and an end date relative to the parents after the end of WWII. The other area I am quite sure about is that there are at least 10 subsets of of culture within the baby boomers age range. A most wide range of events and conditions that shaped or did not shape a most radical change period in the U.S.; depending upon where you lived, whether or not the Vietnam War affected you, your family or those you knew. There is no pure lumping together those of the baby boom era. A most well done reference that involves many aspects of this period are related in the movie; American Grafitti. One will find the wide variety of people of the generation; and likely similar to other generations, too.
If you choose to read the linked story; whether a boomer or not, you will learn a few tidbits about some aspects of the more radical movements of the period.
Regards,
Catch
Wouldn't most of the Nat. Guard have to be recalled from foreign soil?
Take care.....and enjoy the weather while it lasts, eh?
Catch
And when I wondered why, since the prescribed legislative processes have now excluded us from any effective political input, there were not groups of us marching in the streets, more than a few of you folks thought that really wasn't such a bad idea.
Now I have no more idea than anyone else exactly "who is behind" the current protest, but why exactly is it all of a sudden such a "bad thing"?
So I also have a question for Maurice: If there is no effective way for certain classes of citizens to be heard via the normal political process, what exactly would you recommend?
HEY!!, this is the Off Topic board and therefore we're able to talk about things that are not strictly related to mutual fund investing. Folks starting to protest against Wall Street I feel is very related to investing.
First off, this is not a democratic, nor republican protest. Hell, the dems in washington are just as bad as the republicans. feh. Obama is no damn different than Junior, other than the color of his skin and Hillary is reminding me more and more of Cheney.
That said, I really fear that this is the beginning of some very nasty times. Wall St. doesn't care about americans and washington only cares about wall street.
As for the protesters, they're completely unorganized and thereby fairly disfunctional. For a social movement to succeed, you need a layered organization with a centralized leadership. With only the former, you gain acceptance while the latter allows you to accomplish your goals.
Is it time to bring back the guillotine?
peace,
rono
I think they will all go home when winter comes.