Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
Support MFO
Donate through PayPal
Israeli military says strikes hit dozens of targets in Iran, including nuclear sites
The state of tension between Israel and Iran existed before Bibi and will continue after he leaves office unless Iran has a regime not dedicated to Israel’s destruction. Yup. Truth. It takes both sides to make peace.
The state of tension between Israel and Iran existed before Bibi and will continue after he leaves office unless Iran has a regime not dedicated to Israel’s destruction. Yup. Truth. It takes both sides to make peace.
Agreed. Both will need to learn how to play nice with others in the neighborhood. Fundamentalist Islam is dangerous, as dangerous as Christian fundamentalism and "Christian" Zionism, and an anti-human regime in Jerusalem/Tel Aviv.
As David Moran has suggested, given that the main stream of commentary in this thread has drifted from any relevance to economic issues, I'm moving it to the OT section.
I agree that the current Israeli government is genocidal but there has rarely been any effort by any government there to do anything to deal with the Palestinians except by force. They have occupied the West bank illegally for decades.
The current Iranian regime is largely our creation, because we believed the Shah was a legitimate ruler and supported him until the bitter end, forever alienating most Iranians, which allowed Khoemeni to take over.
We started messing with Iran in the 50's when the Prime minister Mosaddegh tried to nationalize the Anglo-Persian Oil company. The CIA, lead by Kermit Roosevelt staged a coup and dragged the Shah ( whose father was a military office and not hereditary shah but elected) out of his Parisian party house and installed him in power.
IF the US had stayed out and let the failing British empire collapse , there might have been a popular government in the 1950s with a democracy. But we were too worried about the "Red Menace"
At Crash. If Israel disbanded the I.D. F tomorrow do you think Iran would disband its forces, quit exporting terrorism and everyone would live in peace and harmony?
Israel had a credible plan to kill Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei in recent days. The White House made clear that Trump was opposed to the plan fearing it would further destabilize the region. Trump also issued a stark warning to Iran: “If we are attacked in any way, shape or form by Iran, the full strength and might of the U.S. Armed Forces will come down on you at levels never seen before.” Hours later he predicted “Iran and Israel should make a deal, and will make a deal.”
Iran has signaled via Arab intermediaries that it would like to end hostilities and resume talks about its nuclear program as long as the U.S. doesn't engage in attacks. There was no indication that Iran is ready to end uranium enrichment which is a red line for Israel. Saudi Arabia, Oman, and Qatar have lobbied the U.S. to pressure Israel for a ceasefire. They warned about potentially significant consequences for nearby energy assets and oil markets.
At Crash. If Israel disbanded the I.D. F tomorrow do you think Iran would disband its forces, quit exporting terrorism and everyone would live in peace and harmony?
Sarcasm. Offer me a discuss-able question, if you like.
Look, I know embarrassing little about Iran or its people other than they've lived under a brutal dictatorship for 45+years. I thought it might help to know a little more about them. Found this:
p.s. I attended grad school with a number of middle eastern students and should have put more effort into learning more. We should know better than to judge a land or country by its leader(?).
Thanks @Mark. His programs are decent. My favorite person for helping and teaching us about places through 'food' is/was Anthony Bourdain. Full of insights that mix historical with what he sees and the people he speaks with.
NOTE: the link will go to Facebook. 'X' the sign in page and you will be taken to a CNN page which will start to play (intro to the show'. CLICK the UNMUTE (lower right). No CC is available. Lastly, his videos for this series are difficult to find, as they are subscriber based. ADD: the series is reportedly FREE to those using ROKU with their tv.
Look, I know embarrassing little about Iran or its people other than they've lived under a brutal dictatorship for 45+years. I thought it might help to know a little more about them. Found this:
p.s. I attended grad school with a number of middle eastern students and should have put more effort into learning more. We should know better than to judge a land or country by its leader(?).
I agree with this. A sizable chunk of the populace is not as gung-ho for an authoritarian regime as other, more militant/radical ME nations have had a history of embracing.
I would not rule out a regime change, should the right opportunity present itself. But, as we continually learn from our mis-adventures in the ME, new leadership must come from within, in a more organic fashion. The West choosing leadership is always a failure, as the "chosen" leader then has an air of illegitimacy.
Good link, @Mark. The Rick Steves Iran program is so good; every once in a while, it comes up on the PBS Create channel, so at least the PBS audience has a chance to see it.
Rick should be the official global ambassador for the decent streak in the U.S. population. He pretty much already is, unofficially.
Comments
The current Iranian regime is largely our creation, because we believed the Shah was a legitimate ruler and supported him until the bitter end, forever alienating most Iranians, which allowed Khoemeni to take over.
We started messing with Iran in the 50's when the Prime minister Mosaddegh tried to nationalize the Anglo-Persian Oil company. The CIA, lead by Kermit Roosevelt staged a coup and dragged the Shah ( whose father was a military office and not hereditary shah but elected) out of his Parisian party house and installed him in power.
IF the US had stayed out and let the failing British empire collapse , there might have been a popular government in the 1950s with a democracy. But we were too worried about the "Red Menace"
The White House made clear that Trump was opposed to the plan fearing it would further destabilize the region.
Trump also issued a stark warning to Iran: “If we are attacked in any way, shape or form by Iran,
the full strength and might of the U.S. Armed Forces will come down on you at levels never seen before.”
Hours later he predicted “Iran and Israel should make a deal, and will make a deal.”
https://apnews.com/article/trump-iran-israel-attack-43e3b1ce47d12477ae4533c941386b75
Does anyone believe him anymore, it's the same old line over and over again. No wonder he's known as TACO.
about its nuclear program as long as the U.S. doesn't engage in attacks.
There was no indication that Iran is ready to end uranium enrichment which is a red line for Israel.
Saudi Arabia, Oman, and Qatar have lobbied the U.S. to pressure Israel for a ceasefire.
They warned about potentially significant consequences for nearby energy assets and oil markets.
Rick Steves' Iran
p.s. I attended grad school with a number of middle eastern students and should have put more effort into learning more. We should know better than to judge a land or country by its leader(?).
My favorite person for helping and teaching us about places through 'food' is/was Anthony Bourdain. Full of insights that mix historical with what he sees and the people he speaks with.
NOTE: the link will go to Facebook. 'X' the sign in page and you will be taken to a CNN page which will start to play (intro to the show'. CLICK the UNMUTE (lower right). No CC is available. Lastly, his videos for this series are difficult to find, as they are subscriber based.
ADD: the series is reportedly FREE to those using ROKU with their tv.
VIDEO, 44 minutes,NOV 2014
I would not rule out a regime change, should the right opportunity present itself. But, as we continually learn from our mis-adventures in the ME, new leadership must come from within, in a more organic fashion. The West choosing leadership is always a failure, as the "chosen" leader then has an air of illegitimacy.
Rick should be the official global ambassador for the decent streak in the U.S. population. He pretty much already is, unofficially.