Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
My ticket, HNL-SEA-GEG: $642.80. Hawaiian-Alaska itinerary. Living in Paradise, so they know they can screw you no matter where you want to go. Factoid: there is no city in the world comparable in size to Honolulu which is more geographically isolated.
My friend's? PIT-MSP-GEG $384, Delta. Scream, holler and howl at the moon.
My tool tells me HNL = 980 miles further from destination. Of course, that doesn't include the stops. I'd have never guessed that the distance was so much further for me. ORK. I am paying attention. Credit is due, @Mark.
Thanks @Mark for the perspective. I always fly first-class (unless international). That’s 50% or more expensive than lesser seats and service. But I love flying. Hard to put a price on soaring above the clouds. The more comfortable the better.
In one sense air travel is a bargain:
A new 737 or A 320 (the most commonly used aircraft for longer domestic flights) costs between $50 and $110 million. Larger aircraft (more likely found on international routes) cost between $200 and $400 million. source
Then there’s the pilots who work incredibly tough flying schedules and undergo extensive training, cabin attendants, ramp workers, TSA security personnel, terminal maintenance employees, food & beverage caterers, baggage handlers, gate agents, aircraft maintenance employees, huge amounts of fuel + fuel delivery equipment and personnel and air traffic controllers (where a severe shortage exists). All of these people eat. They all need to be compensated for the time on job - plus in many cases extensive / expensive training. I haven’t even gotten into gate fees, insurance costs, legal fees, administrative and scheduling expenses.
As Yogi Berra might say, ”comparing air travel prices is tricky”. There are legitimate supply / demand issues. I expect to pay more flying in and out of more popular tourist destinations like EYW or HHH than CLT or ORD. If you’re running a business in a highly competitive environment (10 different sellers nearby) wouldn’t you lower your price? OTOH, if people were lining up for your service you’d likely raise your price. And I wonder how expensive it is to transport aviation fuel to Hawaii compared to mainland airports? Any petro pipelines under the Pacific? Fuel is the single biggest expense for a flight. Flying out of warmer destinations could diminish passenger & cargo capacity and increase operating expenses as air temperature affects legal load limits (the higher the temperature the lower the takeoff weight allowed).
The single largest determinant of airfare price I’ve found is schedule. I can save $300 departing Michigan at 6 or 7 AM over a later 11 AM or 2 PM departure. But they can “stuff” those early morning departures where the sun don’t shine. Same on the return. Everybody wants to leave for home at 2 or 3 PM. I usually save money departing at 5 or 6 PM. Simple supply and demand. And if a flight is nearly full when you book, you’ll pay more than if there are lots of empty seats needing to be filled.
Re: ”PIT-MSP-GEG” - Both routes are easily served by regional airlines which operate under the banner of a larger carrier like Delta and might be a little less expensive. Usually less comfortable with more restrictive overhead space. I can’t say for sure, but very likely one of them if not both is on a regional. These planes sometimes carry up to 100 passengers. The average flyer may not notice any difference. The crews are usually younger with many fewer flying hours than on the mainstream carriers. They do not enjoy anything close to the pay and benefits of the major airlines. If there’s a “money grab” anywhere, it’s in the big carriers using these smaller regional airlines. Oh sure. They’re safe enough. But statistically a bit less safe.
Comments
2,885 miles hnl to geg
My tool tells me HNL = 980 miles further from destination.
Of course, that doesn't include the stops.
I'd have never guessed that the distance was so much further for me. ORK.
I am paying attention. Credit is due, @Mark.
In one sense air travel is a bargain:
A new 737 or A 320 (the most commonly used aircraft for longer domestic flights) costs between $50 and $110 million. Larger aircraft (more likely found on international routes) cost between $200 and $400 million. source
Then there’s the pilots who work incredibly tough flying schedules and undergo extensive training, cabin attendants, ramp workers, TSA security personnel, terminal maintenance employees, food & beverage caterers, baggage handlers, gate agents, aircraft maintenance employees, huge amounts of fuel + fuel delivery equipment and personnel and air traffic controllers (where a severe shortage exists). All of these people eat. They all need to be compensated for the time on job - plus in many cases extensive / expensive training. I haven’t even gotten into gate fees, insurance costs, legal fees, administrative and scheduling expenses.
As Yogi Berra might say, ”comparing air travel prices is tricky”. There are legitimate supply / demand issues. I expect to pay more flying in and out of more popular tourist destinations like EYW or HHH than CLT or ORD. If you’re running a business in a highly competitive environment (10 different sellers nearby) wouldn’t you lower your price? OTOH, if people were lining up for your service you’d likely raise your price. And I wonder how expensive it is to transport aviation fuel to Hawaii compared to mainland airports? Any petro pipelines under the Pacific? Fuel is the single biggest expense for a flight. Flying out of warmer destinations could diminish passenger & cargo capacity and increase operating expenses as air temperature affects legal load limits (the higher the temperature the lower the takeoff weight allowed).
The single largest determinant of airfare price I’ve found is schedule. I can save $300 departing Michigan at 6 or 7 AM over a later 11 AM or 2 PM departure. But they can “stuff” those early morning departures where the sun don’t shine. Same on the return. Everybody wants to leave for home at 2 or 3 PM. I usually save money departing at 5 or 6 PM. Simple supply and demand. And if a flight is nearly full when you book, you’ll pay more than if there are lots of empty seats needing to be filled.
Re: ”PIT-MSP-GEG” - Both routes are easily served by regional airlines which operate under the banner of a larger carrier like Delta and might be a little less expensive. Usually less comfortable with more restrictive overhead space. I can’t say for sure, but very likely one of them if not both is on a regional. These planes sometimes carry up to 100 passengers. The average flyer may not notice any difference. The crews are usually younger with many fewer flying hours than on the mainstream carriers. They do not enjoy anything close to the pay and benefits of the major airlines. If there’s a “money grab” anywhere, it’s in the big carriers using these smaller regional airlines. Oh sure. They’re safe enough. But statistically a bit less safe.