Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

In this Discussion

Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.

    Support MFO

  • Donate through PayPal

Wednesday was no dead cat bounce says…….

edited April 11 in Fund Discussions
Don’t shoot the messenger and disregarding politics here, my favorite momentum indicator is Zweig’s up volume vs down volume on the NYSE. I have referenced this several times over the years. Most great traders are terrible analysts and most great analysts are terrible traders. That said, one great amateur analyst I know (meaning he does not work for some Wall Street firm) is as bullish as ever based on Wednesday’s action. That day saw a 65 to 1 up volume over down volume on the NYSE - the highest ever. That was greater than the infamous 42 to 1 that launched the greatest bull market of all time on August 18, 1982. With the recent volatility we have seen recently it won’t take long to see if Wednesday was indeed THE day.



Comments

  • edited April 11
    Hey @Junkster! Thanks for that.

    It was after all, one of the bigger short squeezes of all-time!

    From a definition perspective, it's pretty easy to argue at this point it was a DCB, as it was NOT based on fundamentals (rather the deep fear that a deep recession was being risked) and the price direction immediately reversed that night/the next day. But to fully define a DCB:

    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/deadcatbounce.asp

    Bottom Line: We won't know until sometime later.

    That said, from a T/A perspective, they really had to fight on Wednesday to get thru the Fibo 50% retracement level.

    The 61.8% level, not far above it, is expected to be stiff resistance and many believe we will not get through it on the first attempt. And the buffon put (er blink) line is expected by many to be re-tested.

    On the positive-looking side, I'll stack the Zweig data that you presented with comments Lawrence O'Donnell made on Wed night, pretty much saying we now know the insanely calculated tariffs will never happen:

    https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/lawrence-trump-backs-down-on-tariffs-after-a-day-of-fearing-elon-musk-might-call-him-a-moron-236996677787

    Bottom Line: IMO, this one is different from past, similar drops, in that it is self-induced and a mad man has the keys to the car. So round and round we go, where we stop, nobody knows, until we see what he ultimately does with the keys.
  • edited April 11
    Wow...the highest ever! Thanks for putting Wednesday's NYSE up vs. down volume ratio into historical context.

    The stock and bond markets are now weighing whether the Trump "reciprocal tariff" team and it's leader (Trump) will be able to arrive at minimally disruptive agreements with the 57 countries currently scheduled to face steeply increased tariffs after 90 days. The markets are also continuing to weigh the impact of the new across the board 10% tariff, the recently increased tariffs on Canada and Mexico and the recently increased tariffs on steel, aluminum, and autos (with prescription drugs tariffs coming soon). And, of course, the markets are waiting to see if Trump and Xi Jinping are able to get past the first move and resolve their differences in a market friendly way.

    The Zweig indicator's long history of success provides reason to hope as does Trump's desire to retain congressional majorities after the mid-term elections. But, Trump thrives on chaos and has been letting his intuition guide his actions since his return to the White House. Hopefully Trump will figure out a way declare victory and move on. We probably know before very long if Zweig's indicator is up to the challenge Trump is presenting it with.
  • If I may don my sorcerer's hat for a moment, I'd like to point out some curious symmetry which might augur well for the stock market.

    $INDU peaked at 45054.36 on 1/31/25, fell to 40661.77 on 3/13/25, and then rallied to 42821.83 on 3/26/25. The difference between 45054.36 and 40661.77 is 4392.59, which when subtracted from 40661.77 is 36269.18, which is rather close to the low of 36611.78 on 4/7/25.

    In a similar vein, $SPX peaked at 6147.43 on 2/19/25, fell to 5504.65 on 3/13/25, and then rallied to 5786.95 on 3/25/25. The difference between 6147.43 and 5504.65 is 642.78, which when subtracted from 5504.65 is 4861.87, which is rather close to the low of 4835.04 on 4/7/25.
  • edited April 11
    Nice 35 year graph of NYSE UpVol / DownVol.
    https://ibb.co/S1BPJMn
  • IIRC, the PE ratio back in 1982 was in the single digits. That's what I call real capitulation. It's Just my WAG that current valuations are twice that after all the recent activity. I don't think that's where great bull markets typically start.

    I don't believe in charts, so take my comments accordingly.

  • edited April 11
    WABAC said:

    IIRC, the PE ratio back in 1982 was in the single digits. That's what I call real capitulation. It's Just my WAG that current valuations are twice that after all the recent activity. I don't think that's where great bull markets typically start.

    I don't believe in charts, so take my comments accordingly.

    Great point. The 82 bull also came after the going nowhere years of 66-82. Back then it seemed all of a sudden the baby boomers then in their early thirties woke up one day and began thinking about their retirement and so began the rush into equities. The 80s were the best of times - music, movies, TV series, etc. I don’t believe in charts either. Never met a rich chartist.
  • Anytime I'm alive feels good to me. I can listen to the Ramones on golden oldies shows. :)

    IIRC the low value of the S&P was due to inflation. By August of 1982 the inflation rate had dropped from around 8.4 in January to 5.9 in August. So the bond market was off to the start of its own bull market.

  • edited April 11
    Inflation tends to drag many assets “higher” in nominal terms. I expect a lot of it down the road (next 3-5 years). The U of M sentiment survey released today shows consumers have raised their inflation expectations -
    ”Respondents also said they were bracing for prices to surge 6.7% in the year ahead.” (WSJ)

    WABC is right that valuations are high. As investors we need to be selective. FWIW, here’s 20 low P/E stocks. That said, anything can happen over the next several months - so there may be / probably will be better times to buy.

    Also - Lewis Braham authored a Barron’s article earlier this week highlighting funds that might do well under current “chaotic” conditions. Worth a look.


    Re: ”Never met a rich chartist.” Good one!
  • edited April 11
    Here's a link to Lewis Braham's "The Chaos-Resistant Fund Portfolio" article referenced by Hank.
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/savingandinvesting/the-chaos-resistant-fund-portfolio/ar-AA1Ch1BR
  • Thanks for the link @Observant1
  • edited April 11
    @Observant1, thank you.

    Nice to learn the unique aspects of these funds mentioned here. AQR funds are interesting, but they often have expense ratio over 2%.
  • edited April 12
    @Sven,

    Yes, the AQR funds mentioned do look interesting.
    I'd need to do analyze them more thoroughly before investing.
    But those expense ratios!
  • These are quat funds and their strategies deployed are way over my heads. I noted low correlation to equities is attractive as alternatives. But they often have high ER…
  • edited April 12
    IIRC from last week, one was a long-short fund and one was a fund of funds (AQR alt funds).
    I've been dismissive of alt funds in the past but I might consider purchasing one in the future.
  • @Observant. Thanks, good article by Lewis Braham.
Sign In or Register to comment.