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Rule of Law

edited March 19 in Off-Topic
"Several federal judges have claimed the administration of U.S. President Donald Trump has failed to comply with court orders regarding foreign aid, federal spending and the firing of government workers, which the administration disputes. Below is a look at what could happen if a court rules the administration is ignoring or not complying with a court order, which some experts describe as a constitutional crisis."

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/what-happens-if-trump-administration-doesnt-comply-with-court-order-2025-03-18/

Comments

  • edited March 19
    Summary from Bloomberg this evening:

    ”In the day or so since US Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts appeared to scold Trump for his attacks on the judiciary, a flurry of lower court decisions were less subtle in taking the 78-year-old president to task for firing thousands of government employees, effectively shuttering federal agencies and limiting the rights of minorities. All of those actions—according to federal judges—were likely in violation of the US Constitution and federal statute. But as the number of lawsuits, court defeats (and more than a few wins) accumulate for Trump, so too are cases in which his lawyers are flouting judicial authority. The question of a constitutional crisis may at this point be a moot one, as some scholars say it’s already arrived. The real question is what happens next. “
  • "The real question is what happens next."

    Yes. If Trump blatantly challenges the courts I can't begin to imagine what consequences might flow from that. And, given the man's obvious contempt for any base of power other than his own, I'd bet that's exactly where we're headed.
  • But exactly how do the courts punish the king if he simply ignores them? He believes his status to be "above the law".
  • edited March 19
    The Trump administration is already thumbing its nose at some court rulings against it.
    Without due process, the administration accused hundreds (thousands?) of individuals as being gang members.
    US District Judge James Boasberg ordered halting all deportations of these "gang members" to El Salvador.
    Several deportation flights in progress were completed against the judge's orders.
    Trump later attacked Judge Boasberg on Truth Social saying he should be impeached.
    Chief Justice Roberts issued a rare public statement in response:
    For more than two centuries, it has been established that impeachment is not
    an appropriate response to disagreement concerning a judicial decision.
    The normal appellate review process exists for that purpose.”

    I think the Trump administration's judicial issues will come to a head in the coming weeks.
  • edited March 19
    JD_co said:

    But exactly how do the courts punish the king if he simply ignores them?
    He believes his status to be "above the law".

    What Courts Can Do If the Trump Administration Defies Court Orders
    https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/what-courts-can-do-if-trump-administration-defies-court-orders
  • Old_Joe said:

    "The real question is what happens next."

    Yes. If Trump blatantly challenges the courts I can't begin to imagine what consequences might flow from that. And, given the man's obvious contempt for any base of power other than his own, I'd bet that's exactly where we're headed.

    Yep. I began writing something along that line, but it got so depressing I deleted it and just let the Bloomberg piece stand alone.

  • JD_co said:

    But exactly how do the courts punish the king if he simply ignores them?
    He believes his status to be "above the law".

    What Courts Can Do If the Trump Administration Defies Court Orders
    https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/what-courts-can-do-if-trump-administration-defies-court-orders
    Thanks, Observant1.

    Ugh. This does not instill confidence that he would be forced to comply. He will just string it out.

  • Is anyone surprised? The voters elected a convicted felon.
  • edited March 20
    From Heather Cox Richardson's Letters from an American:

    "On the Fox News Channel’s The Five yesterday, the panel of Fox personalities expressed outrage
    that federal judge James Boasberg had ordered the Trump administration to stop its deportation
    of migrants based on the 1798 Alien Enemies Act. That act permits the president to arrest
    and deport citizens of other countries that are at war with the U.S. or invading it.
    If Trump’s claim that Venezuelan gang members are acting in concert with the Venezuelan government
    to invade the U.S. stands, it gives the president extraordinary scope to take power over immigration
    away from Congress by declaring any foreign country is invading the United States
    and thus making its citizens subject to deportation without going through the normal legal process."


    "The United States has laws in place to prosecute criminals whether or not they are citizens and,
    if they are convicted, to imprison them and then, if they are not citizens, to deport them.
    This system was in operation long before Donald Trump became president."


    "The call to erase the rule of law and institute a dictatorship is more than just an attack on individuals’ rights.
    It is fundamentally an attack on the supreme power of the American people.
    'We the People of the United States,' our constitution reads,
    'do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.'
    That constitution, which establishes the legislative branch in Article I as the first among equals,
    sets out a process by which American citizens elect lawmakers who write, debate,
    and pass the laws under which we live.
    Under this system, our laws represent the will of the American people."
  • "The Alien Enemies Act has been invoked three times, each time during a major conflict: the War of 1812, World War I, and World War II. In World Wars I and II, the law was a key authority behind detentions, expulsions, and restrictions targeting German, Austro-Hungarian, Japanese, and Italian immigrants based solely on their ancestry. The law is best known for its role in Japanese internment, a shameful part of U.S. history for which Congress, presidents, and the courts have apologized."

    "Today, entire sections of the immigration, criminal, and intelligence codes are dedicated to preventing and rooting out espionage, sabotage, and other malign activities — irrespective of the citizenship or ethnicity of the perpetrator. Hundreds of thousands of federal employees work in agencies dedicated to protecting the homeland and national security. These agencies have surveillance and other specialized tools for identifying when individuals may be conspiring with a foreign power against the United States."

    "In the modern era, there is no plausible argument that relying on overbroad, identity-based measures like internment or expulsion under the Alien Enemies Act is necessary, even in wartime."

    https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/alien-enemies-act-explained
  • edited March 20
    Here ya go …

    "Bollocks to the rules! We’re strong – we hunt! If there’s a beast, we’ll hunt it down! We’ll close in and beat and beat and beat!"

    Quotation from William Goulding’s fictional Lord of the Flies (1954)

    And from Oscar Wilde - ”Life imitates art far more than art imitates life.” (1889)
  • edited March 20
    Also:
    Canadian woman with a work visa to be here legally has been deported. A French academic was detained upon arrival for a scientific symposium; accused of negative remarks re: Trump, possible treason. But he's a foreigner. How could it be treason? He was deported, summarily, though charges were dropped... What charges??? For holding an opinion? Shit.

    What is going on already is Hitler-esque. How long will it take the people wearing badges, and the military to REFUSE to do the bidding of the Monumentally Orange Disgusting Slime-hole? How long before Orange's Reichstag stands up to his immoral, illegal abuse of power? Repugnant "Party" = odorous mountain of chickenshit.

    ...And what's this junk about Canadians who are here longer than 30 days needing to register with the gov't? Is he just bludgeoning them into giving in, to become the 51st State? What an utterly complete Orange wet hole. Never happen. Canadians are smarter than we are: they saw how stoopid it was to elect the Orange Fool ONCE. But to elect him TWICE? And now, all the trouble and craziness? No one north of the border is the least bit surprised. And there is no more trust they have left to extend to the USA.
  • "How long will it take the people wearing badges, and the military to REFUSE to do the bidding..."

    Don't count on that, I'm afraid. History suggests that those entities almost never rise to the occasion in situations like ours. The glorious leader installs overseers to make sure that sort of thing doesn't happen. We're well on that path already.
  • @Old_Joe. Don’t count on that… you got the right. Firing the JAGs goes a long way to insuring the military will not do the right thing… When the resistance grows and the regime feels threatened the army will be called out to do horrible things. And when officers ask the JAG if shooting protesters is a legal order what do you think the trump appointee will say? FIRE WHEN READY!
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