Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
Three Jeep and two VW models are named as one of the 10 least reliable models for 2024. The following info seems counterintuitive since EVs lack internal combustion engines: “'On average, new electric vehicles (EVs) have 79% more problems than Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) vehicles,' CR reports."
For the past 20 years, it has been my belief that Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep (aren't they the same company?) along with Nissan have been at the bottom of every reliability poll, year after year after year. It's a bit of a surprise to see Dodge and Jeep sitting at least at the 'average' mark on this list.
But if you look at the actual number of reported problems, the actual difference doesn’t seem too large …
BMW (upper third) 190 per hundred vehicles
Chrysler (bottom) 310 per hundred vehicles
Well … about 50% greater I guess.
I’ve been looking at a new Audi. Talk me out of it if you can.
Note how far Honda seems to have fallen. Used to sit near the top. The local Honda dealer is loaded. On the other hand, Toyota can’t keep them on the lots.
Used to love driving Chrysler 300s when renting. Fine road car. And the Impala too. Wish they still made those. Personally don’t care for boxes on wheels - but all the rage.
@hank: Consumers Reports has never been high on Audi reliability, so it might be worth your time to check there. My PCP has been happy with two Audi A5 convertibles, however.
We own older Hondas now and I take note of the declining ratings. My 2019 Odyssey needed front struts at 52,000 miles, a disappointment to me because previous Odysseys needed no such service. An independent emissions testing company had that car for a week and I chatted with the guy who delivered my car back. He explained why my front rotors had had to be resurfaced at 30,000 miles (at no charge) because Honda is using lighter components in order to save weight. Quality not the first priority. My 2005 Odyssey went 123,000 miles with absolutely no brake work.
Toyota Camry 2005 270,000+ miles Sold for $500 in 2024. Never touched the brakes or muffler . Replaced water pump once , exhaust wielded once, battery twice, last time just before I sold it. Finally one sensor on catalytic converter. Also I had to staple headliner in place, as it was coming loose.
@hank: Consumers Reports has never been high on Audi reliability, so it might be worth your time to check there. My PCP has been happy with two Audi A5 convertibles, however.
We own older Hondas now and I take note of the declining ratings. My 2019 Odyssey needed front struts at 52,000 miles, a disappointment to me because previous Odysseys needed no such service. An independent emissions testing company had that car for a week and I chatted with the guy who delivered my car back. He explained why my front rotors had had to be resurfaced at 30,000 miles (at no charge) because Honda is using lighter components in order to save weight. Quality not the first priority. My 2005 Odyssey went 123,000 miles with absolutely no brake work.
Toyota Camry 2005 270,000+ miles Sold for $500 in 2024. Never touched the brakes or muffler . Replaced water pump once , exhaust wielded once, battery twice, last time just before I sold it. Finally one sensor on catalytic converter. Also I had to staple headliner in place, as it was coming loose.
My 2018 Honda Accord Hybrid’s fine. Did rear brakes once and it needs a new starter battery. 40,000 miles. I just got the bug to move on to something a little more upscale.. Lots of looking. No cigar. The Audi “A5-S series” I looked at today was a lot like my old 2013 Mustang. Big hood. Big price. Powerful engine (232 HP 4 cylinder turbo). Lots of leather. Very little useful space. Didn’t even bother to drive it. Am looking now at a newly arrived Audi A3 the dealer hasn’t yet prepped. I recently subscribed to Consumer Reports & agree with @BenWP Audi’s reliability ratings are suspect - but there are worse (like Mercedes).
Drove a redesigned 2025 Camry last week. Outstanding car. Beautiful ride and good handling. They’re all hybrids and get 40-50 mpg depending on model. They can’t keep them on the lots. If I was smart I’d buy one (around $40,000). Only thing - The interior looks like something Grandma might design. And the driver’s seat is more upright like a truck - probably to conserve space.
I looked at a BMW 2 Series coupe in TC recently. Really liked the size, comfort, layout but don’t want a red car. Only 2 sedans in the entire BMW dealership. Actually considering renting a room somewhere downstate to shop for a new car. Sedans are a rarity north of the Grand Rapids area. Folks up here want trucks, trucks, trucks. I have an old truck for hauling wood or landscaping supplies. Much prefer the handling qualities and economy of a sedan for everyday use. I’ve rented SUVs (when there was nothing else available) and personally don’t care for the driving / handling characteristics.
@hank You mention the drivers seat as being to upright. Isn't the seat powered ? Drove a '23 Camry & thought I was siting to low. A few days later it dawned on me that it could be raised up, but never went back to check it out. You mentioned Audi A3 that needed dealer prep. Isn't that the dealer saying come back & we'll have added a few K$ to the price?! Paint & seat treatment to resist stains , etc. Enjoy your Thanksgiving meal, Derf
1. Yes, the Camry seats are powered. So to an extent it is possible to recline. Suggest you test one out. Seats are complicated.
2. Not really. Before a car right off the delivery truck can be driven on highways it needs some prep from the service department. As a kid, I can remember when vehicles would hardly run at all at the dealership where I worked when they were delivered. Needed drastic mechanical attention. We always pulled the front wheels & repacked the bearings among other things. Today, I suspect it has more to do with checking fluid levels, tire pressure, functionality of brake lights, etc.
I would like to test drive one (A 3) for 15-30 minutes before considering purchasing one. There aren’t any others on the lots except the one I mentioned. I think the folks who bought NVDA and Bitcoin early are cleaning out the dealerships. New vehicles are selling fast - even in a typically slow season.
I don't give much thought to J.D. Powers notations, as it relies on owner input, which I suspect is infrequent and/or random. I prefer to 'ask' the mechanics.
At J.D. Power, we base our independent and unbiased ratings, reviews, and awards on detailed survey feedback from verified car owners each year to uncover and understand their experiences over the first three-months of ownership and, subsequently, their experiences over the first three-years of ownership.
@hank I agree with @Derf about the drivers seat position for the Camry. The center control at the drivers seat (may vary by year) is for the lumbar control that determines the upright/seatback vertical position.
Also, the most common experience with auto batteries is that their life span is 3 -5 years (according to average reports nationwide). My experience with factory batteries is closer to 5-7 years range. And of course, a new replacement battery should be of the highest quality.....spend the money. Note too that battery life is generally longer in Michigan, than in Arizona. Also that during extreme cold in Michigan, if a vehicle is parked outside, battery life may be reduced. All of this regards that there isn't any charging circuit problems with the vehicle.
Two important things one can do today, is a search via the internet and again a video/YouTube search for 'whatever'. This is more so important for a vehicle more than one year old. Based upon my readings, one problem that has become fairly common is the failure of turbos, regardless of the auto maker. We owned a 1985 vehicle with a turbo, when turbos were uncommon. This is also a period when I performed most of the maintenance of our cars. The turbo is intended to provide a power boost when needed and is generally associated today with 4 cylinder motors. A turbo lives in a 'world of hell' relative to some other under the hood parts. It is driven by hot exhaust gases. Quality oil and required oil changes are mandatory, or the turbine bearings will have a short life.
@hank, fwiw, a guy at work is looking at the Lexus ES 350 ultra luxury car. Beautiful car in the pics he showed. Lexus, of course, is the up-scale Toyota brand.
@catch22, I agree with asking for a mechanic's opinion on car reliability. My wife asked that question to the mechanic she likes to go to. First brands out of his mouth were Toyota, Subaru and Honda.
@hank: have you considered a Toyota Avalon? Real step up from a Camry, without the Lexus cachet. In American brands, a Buick, not a Caddy. Your “uncle’s” car, even if that’s considered a sexist comment.
* Writes from others a few years ago (not picking on GM)
GM has had issues with all of their small (< 1.8L) turbos. A lot of the issues have to do with oil coking in the lines that lead to oil starvation to the turbo. Oil coking happens when hot dirty oil sits in the oil feed line. It slowly bakes into the line.
This is however very avoidable with proper driving techniques and more frequent oil change intervals. GM doesn't tell you that because it's customers really don't want to hear it in the modern age.
I've owned 4 GM turbocharged vehicles. Two of those had small "Problem Child" turbocharger engines, the 1.4L LUV and the 1.2L LIH. I have never had turbocharger issues. That's because I make it a habit to change the oil every 3 months or 3,000 miles to keep the oil clean. It's normally 3 months For me. I also have made it a habit to let the engine run for 3 minutes after I start the engine AND for 3 minutes before I shut the engine off. This allows the turbocharger and the oil going through it to get to a sufficient temperature so coking doesn't happen.
*My write
--- Engine displacement = What determines the cubic inches of an engine? Basically, it's the size of the engine. The amount of space between the lowest and highest points of the piston's travel multiplied by the number of cylinders yields the displacement, which is expressed in cubic inches, or liters these days. The larger the engine, the more power it has, all other things being equal.
--- Today for reference, a 1.4 liter engine = 90 c.i., while a 5.7 liter engine = 350 c.i.
Being that vehicle weights have not decreased over the years, one will find that a common weight is about 4,000 lbs with a plus/minus for fuel, number of passengers and cargo. My opinion is that a 1.4 L engine has to work very hard to move this amount of weight, with the exception being on a flat open highway at speed. 'Course, the requirement of the turbo assist; is that this is needed to increase the horsepower and torque of the engine to move the weight. A turbo pressurizes the air flow into the engine. All things being equal, this causes a lot of high pressure within the combustion chamber(s) that need to have gasket components and related parts to be able to withstand these pressures. One must rely upon the engineers to set a standard; BUT also that the bean counters don't choose to reduce a cost with quality shortcuts.
My smart arse side suggests that a turbo for an engine is not unlike a human needing/wanting a boost for a little extra air when running a race. So, imagine a leaf blower with a hose connection to the runners mouth, 'on/off switch included'.
AND from an online comment I read a few years ago........"I don't want a car any newer than when a cigarette lighter was still offered." NOTE: Chrysler was the first auto company to remove the lighter as standard equipment in 1996. Generally, no lighters were offered by the companies beyond 2000.
Lastly, for now. I'm not a trained automotive engineer. I'm not sure that many current production vehicles are built to last properly for more than 5 years or 100,000 miles. Then, hey; by or lease another one, eh? Two cars I've owned could behave and perform without problems. A new, 1966 SS Chevy Chevelle, 4-speed manual transmission, fully designed and purchased with performance as the main reason. The engine was way beyond everyday needs. Yet, driving on a flat interstate at 60 mph, would yield 25 mpg. Most engines/vehicles have a 'sweet spot' for high mileage ranges. This engine did not have to 'work' hard to move the car. The second was a 2000 Buick LeSabre Limited. A very comfortable care, with many well thought design features, relative to the mechanicals. The 3.8 L (231 cubic inches), V-6 engine is one of the better modern engines ever built by GM. This engine was coupled with a 4 speed auto transmission. All day long driving north on the interstate towards the UP of Michigan at 75 mph would find 30 mpg. The one screw up from GM with this excellent engine was that some engines were manufactured with an inferior cylinder head gasket made for GM by a Brazilian vendor (to the best of my recall). This product failure became a 'recall' issue for GM. Our current Chrysler 300 (2012) is as quiet as any car I've known moving along at interstate speeds. This particular car has an Audi 8 transmission, as the company had not yet build there own 8 speeds. The V-6/8 speed allows for 33 mpg at 80 mph on flat terrain interstate driving. At 60 mph, 40 mpg. All of these numbers are 'without' cruise control.
While the many safety features that have taken place over the years for vehicles is wonderful, is that being cute with features from the marketing department has gone to the crazy side, IMHO. More stuff that can fail. This is reflected with insurance premiums being very expensive, too. We have a 40 year old waffle iron. Works great. 'Course, we could buy a new one with ninja/turbo advertising features when using the 'wifi' connection, OR go to a yard sale or Goodwill and buy a replacement for $1. I hope our current older vehicles outlast me. But, too many folks don't give a glance to the operation manual for anything, SO they're already in trouble for maintenance and failure(s).
My car mechanic of the past 15 years recommends only two name brands for their reliability and repair record: Toyota and Honda. He has seen them all as he stated, the good, the bad and the ugly. If you want luxury, get a Lexus; next is Acura. European cars used to be good but way too expensive to maintain. My brother owned a BMI had one for a year and had many mechanical problems. He has been driving Toyota ever since.
According to our mechanic, the 4 and 6 cylinder Toyota and Honda engines have been refined (not redesigned as in American cars) for the past 30 years to near perfection. Multi-port fuel injectors and variable cylinders have further improve their performance and fuel efficiency. Our youngest Odyssey is 13 years old while the Prius is 10 years old. Our next new vehicles will likely NOT be full electrical; hybrids would be more suitable as sold state battery technology continues to improve.
I am skeptical of JD Power report since we prefer the equivalent of the same from Consumer Reports. In it it breakdown which part of the model tends to require more maintenance. Also not all the drivetrain are the same within each car manufacturer, thus it should not be treated in one broad stroke.
How many drivers let their turbo warm up & cool down for 3 minutes ? I'll take a wild guess, 5%. How many drivers change turbo oil, lube, every 3000 miles? Another guess 3%.
I know very little about turbos , but a bit of human nature.
@hank, fwiw, a guy at work is looking at the Lexus ES 350 ultra luxury car. Beautiful car in the pics he showed. Lexus, of course, is the up-scale Toyota brand.
Thanks Mike
Like BMW, the nearest Lexus dealer is a 3 hour drive to Grand Rapids (mid-Michigan) under good conditions Another couple hours puts you in the metro-Detroit area where I counted 3 or 4 BMW dealers all within 10 miles of each other (how sweet). I did drive down & back to GR once this spring to check out new vehicles. But found that to do the round trip in one day and spend time looking at vehicles is challenging. Yep - Would love a Lexus.
@hank: have you considered a Toyota Avalon? Real step up from a Camry, without the Lexus cachet. In American brands, a Buick, not a Caddy. Your “uncle’s” car, even if that’s considered a sexist comment.
. Toyota has discontinued the Avalon. The replacement is the Toyota Crown, long a staple in Japan, but introduced to the U.S. just 2 years ago. Test drove one last spring. Just “so-so”. I told the salesman it was a good car to sell to the “hard-of-hearing” because there was some slight but annoying wind noise from the driver’s side A pillar. We even retracted the side view mirrors briefly to try and cancel the unwanted noise. Didn’t help. (But he enjoyed the joke).
@catch22 said, ”A turbo lives in a 'world of hell' relative to some other under the hood parts. It is driven by hot exhaust gases. Quality oil and required oil changes are mandatory, or the turbine bearings will have a short life.”
Thanks for the reminder. I’ve never owned one. But with the limited miles I put on a car (around 7,000 per year), I’d think a turbo would work for me. Yes, agree it would be more expensive to maintain. Most turbos I’ve seen require premium grade fuel which is a lot more expensive. Cheat by using regular and you can inflict long term engine damage.
“Buy vs. lease” ? Interesting question. I’ve always bought. The 2018 Accord Hybrid cost around $26,000 in ‘18. KBB puts the trade value above $19,000 now - 6.5 years later. Not bad. But inflation ran a bit high over those years. I pay cash of course. Financing would throw a new wrinkle into the equation. I like to carry a high collision deducible (currently $2500) to save on insurance. If financing (especially through a dealer) be careful there. Most, if not all, require 100% collision coverage. I’d expect (but don’t know) that leasing would also require 100% coverage.
Ques: Have you or anyone you know purchased a new car online?
@hank The link is set for Troy, MI zip code (48085). This is a very decent site to use in finding vehicles. With the zip code as set, the first page with the below link will allow you to choose MAKE and MODEL, then SEARCH. The next page will display all the NEW vehicles. BUT, at this second page along the left side you can define the search. The 'distance' from the zip code is default at 50 miles. You may change this. For year, you may change this range. Example: 2022 and 2022 to find only that year. There are other areas that may be defined below this. Above LOCATION, you may change to another MAKE of vehicle. The photos that arrive from the search may be selected, which will provide more info about that choice...scroll down. The LEFT SIDE of the page contains a lot of filters to narrow a search. I do believe the search will contain private sellers, as well as the dealerships.
Look around the site, and you'll discover what you need to do.
As to your most recent post......I don't know anyone who has used 'online', as in CARVANA. Our current vehicles had been 2 year company leased by others. So, we purchased these with 20,000 miles, and remaining company warranty periods still remaining. The pricing was very good for a basically very new car that had been maintained via the lease agreement. It appears all lease vehicle today are for 3 years.
FWIW - I’ve checked around at various dealers across the state. There seems to be a genuine shortage of anything foreign branded - sedans anyway. If you want much choice in colors or features good luck! I’m thinking that many are rushing to beat the Trump tariffs. By contrast, some Ford dealers are heavily stocked in Ford trucks, both 2024 and 2025 models, and discounting heavily.
@hank: your post elsewhere about the snow arriving Up North reminds me of a colleague whose father was a Chivvy dealer in Marquette. She said he referred to the cars on the lot in Winter as his “frozen assets.” I have not bought a new car since a 1977 Toyota and I have yet to be disappointed in a low-mileage Honda or Toyota.
J.D. Power 2024 U.S. Vehicle Dependability Study is based on 3 years. That's a short term life of a vehicle, which is why I never paid attention to it. Consumer Reports is the only unbiased report.
Since I arrived in the USA in 1991, the chances I would buy a European is slim, overpriced, and less reliable. After 3 years of American, I started reading CR and never bought one. Toyota was the best, Honda not bad. The last 2 we bought in the last 2 years were Kia and Hyundai; we will see after 10 years. I always bought new Toyota and Honda because they keep their prices too high, great for resale. I rather buy new and know what I get.
FD confirms everything I could dig up. But if you want an expensive show-boat BMW seems to stand out for quality among the Europeans. VW’s got issues. The JD Powers list I posted was a “one-off” uncovered during extensive research. Interesting, but not the final word. I did subscribe to CR and agree with FD’s high opinion. Also paid $45 to CarMax to run a full history on a 2024 CPO Audi 5S I looked at. I ended up bringing home a 2025 Toyota Camry XSE. Need to get some winter tires on it fast before doing much driving. The factory installed 19” “performance” tires may land me in a ditch in the snow here - although they drive like a dream.
One interesting facet of the auto market I uncovered was the practice of punching. Helped explain how a CPO with only 3500 miles on it ended up in the same dealer’s used car lot just 3 months after being sold new. The purchaser was an VW affiliated Illinois based leasing company. But the company leased it back to that same Michigan dealer as a “loaner car” for less than 3 months before selling it back to the dealer who then discounted it heavily as a CPO. But it appears the car never really left the dealership.
I've never heard about car punching before. Congratulations for the new Camry. This vehicle has a long-standing reputation for reliabilty. Performance and styling have been improved for the new, ninth generation Camry.
@hank: recommend Michelin CrossClimate2 for your Camry. We have them on our Accord and Odyssey. We have a very steep driveway but these tires grip well enough in most conditions, with FWD. I suspect the tires you got enhance mileage and are probably quieter than the Michelins. I discovered that it’s very expensive to use winter tires and then change them in the Spring; Belle Tire will store a second set of wheels and tires for you, but the purchase of 4 new wheels and the storage/remounting fees really run up a tab.
I purchased Michelin CrossClimate2 tires for my Golf earlier this year. These tires received excellent performance ratings from Consumer Reports and Tire Rack. I've been pleased with the CrossClimate2 tires but haven't had an opportunity to use them in the snow.
Thanks for the suggestions folks. I’ve always had separate winter & summer rims + wheels and generally changed them out myself with a floor jack. But these 19” look like more then I want to deal with. Try lifting a 40-50 lb rim + tire combo into position while sitting on your a** on a garage floor. Looked at rims+ TPS sensors on TR and they cost a small fortune for my vehicle. For now, I’ll have them mounted on the same rims. The car is AWD - first ever. But when braking on ice AWD probably doesn’t help much. If you’re from a warmer climate you may not know that winter tires are formulated from a softer compound, giving them much better traction on ice. But not suitable for warm weather driving.
Purchased at an area Toyota dealership. There are 4 trim levels of the new Camry. I have the XSE which they consider a “sport” upgrade. Stiffer suspension. Explains why it came with special performance tires rather than the more typical all-season type. A bit disappointing, as all-season tires would probably have been adequate for the first winter.
Thanks for all the comments … You may now return to your favorite “Trump” thread.
@hank : 2 questions. Did you try to have the dealer switch out your tires, performance for all-season, to make the sale ? Does the seat have up & down movement ? I'm not asking about tilt.
Comments
The following info seems counterintuitive since EVs lack internal combustion engines:
“'On average, new electric vehicles (EVs) have 79% more problems
than Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) vehicles,' CR reports."
BMW (upper third) 190 per hundred vehicles
Chrysler (bottom) 310 per hundred vehicles
Well … about 50% greater I guess.
I’ve been looking at a new Audi. Talk me out of it if you can.
Note how far Honda seems to have fallen. Used to sit near the top. The local Honda dealer is loaded. On the other hand, Toyota can’t keep them on the lots.
Used to love driving Chrysler 300s when renting. Fine road car. And the Impala too. Wish they still made those. Personally don’t care for boxes on wheels - but all the rage.
We own older Hondas now and I take note of the declining ratings. My 2019 Odyssey needed front struts at 52,000 miles, a disappointment to me because previous Odysseys needed no such service. An independent emissions testing company had that car for a week and I chatted with the guy who delivered my car back. He explained why my front rotors had had to be resurfaced at 30,000 miles (at no charge) because Honda is using lighter components in order to save weight. Quality not the first priority. My 2005 Odyssey went 123,000 miles with absolutely no brake work.
Drove a redesigned 2025 Camry last week. Outstanding car. Beautiful ride and good handling. They’re all hybrids and get 40-50 mpg depending on model. They can’t keep them on the lots. If I was smart I’d buy one (around $40,000). Only thing - The interior looks like something Grandma might design. And the driver’s seat is more upright like a truck - probably to conserve space.
I looked at a BMW 2 Series coupe in TC recently. Really liked the size, comfort, layout but don’t want a red car. Only 2 sedans in the entire BMW dealership. Actually considering renting a room somewhere downstate to shop for a new car. Sedans are a rarity north of the Grand Rapids area. Folks up here want trucks, trucks, trucks. I have an old truck for hauling wood or landscaping supplies. Much prefer the handling qualities and economy of a sedan for everyday use. I’ve rented SUVs (when there was nothing else available) and personally don’t care for the driving / handling characteristics.
You mentioned Audi A3 that needed dealer prep. Isn't that the dealer saying come back & we'll have added a few K$ to the price?! Paint & seat treatment to resist stains , etc.
Enjoy your Thanksgiving meal, Derf
2. Not really. Before a car right off the delivery truck can be driven on highways it needs some prep from the service department. As a kid, I can remember when vehicles would hardly run at all at the dealership where I worked when they were delivered. Needed drastic mechanical attention. We always pulled the front wheels & repacked the bearings among other things. Today, I suspect it has more to do with checking fluid levels, tire pressure, functionality of brake lights, etc.
I would like to test drive one (A 3) for 15-30 minutes before considering purchasing one. There aren’t any others on the lots except the one I mentioned. I think the folks who bought NVDA and Bitcoin early are cleaning out the dealerships. New vehicles are selling fast - even in a typically slow season.
Also, the most common experience with auto batteries is that their life span is 3 -5 years (according to average reports nationwide). My experience with factory batteries is closer to 5-7 years range. And of course, a new replacement battery should be of the highest quality.....spend the money. Note too that battery life is generally longer in Michigan, than in Arizona. Also that during extreme cold in Michigan, if a vehicle is parked outside, battery life may be reduced. All of this regards that there isn't any charging circuit problems with the vehicle.
Two important things one can do today, is a search via the internet and again a video/YouTube search for 'whatever'. This is more so important for a vehicle more than one year old. Based upon my readings, one problem that has become fairly common is the failure of turbos, regardless of the auto maker. We owned a 1985 vehicle with a turbo, when turbos were uncommon. This is also a period when I performed most of the maintenance of our cars. The turbo is intended to provide a power boost when needed and is generally associated today with 4 cylinder motors. A turbo lives in a 'world of hell' relative to some other under the hood parts. It is driven by hot exhaust gases. Quality oil and required oil changes are mandatory, or the turbine bearings will have a short life.
Have a good day, Derf
@catch22, I agree with asking for a mechanic's opinion on car reliability. My wife asked that question to the mechanic she likes to go to. First brands out of his mouth were Toyota, Subaru and Honda.
GM has had issues with all of their small (< 1.8L) turbos. A lot of the issues have to do with oil coking in the lines that lead to oil starvation to the turbo. Oil coking happens when hot dirty oil sits in the oil feed line. It slowly bakes into the line.
This is however very avoidable with proper driving techniques and more frequent oil change intervals. GM doesn't tell you that because it's customers really don't want to hear it in the modern age.
I've owned 4 GM turbocharged vehicles. Two of those had small "Problem Child" turbocharger engines, the 1.4L LUV and the 1.2L LIH. I have never had turbocharger issues. That's because I make it a habit to change the oil every 3 months or 3,000 miles to keep the oil clean. It's normally 3 months For me. I also have made it a habit to let the engine run for 3 minutes after I start the engine AND for 3 minutes before I shut the engine off. This allows the turbocharger and the oil going through it to get to a sufficient temperature so coking doesn't happen.
*My write
--- Engine displacement = What determines the cubic inches of an engine?
Basically, it's the size of the engine. The amount of space between the lowest and highest points of the piston's travel multiplied by the number of cylinders yields the displacement, which is expressed in cubic inches, or liters these days. The larger the engine, the more power it has, all other things being equal.
--- Today for reference, a 1.4 liter engine = 90 c.i., while a 5.7 liter engine = 350 c.i.
Being that vehicle weights have not decreased over the years, one will find that a common weight is about 4,000 lbs with a plus/minus for fuel, number of passengers and cargo.
My opinion is that a 1.4 L engine has to work very hard to move this amount of weight, with the exception being on a flat open highway at speed.
'Course, the requirement of the turbo assist; is that this is needed to increase the horsepower and torque of the engine to move the weight.
A turbo pressurizes the air flow into the engine. All things being equal, this causes a lot of high pressure within the combustion chamber(s) that need to have gasket components and related parts to be able to withstand these pressures.
One must rely upon the engineers to set a standard; BUT also that the bean counters don't choose to reduce a cost with quality shortcuts.
My smart arse side suggests that a turbo for an engine is not unlike a human needing/wanting a boost for a little extra air when running a race. So, imagine a leaf blower with a hose connection to the runners mouth, 'on/off switch included'.
AND from an online comment I read a few years ago........"I don't want a car any newer than when a cigarette lighter was still offered." NOTE: Chrysler was the first auto company to remove the lighter as standard equipment in 1996. Generally, no lighters were offered by the companies beyond 2000.
Lastly, for now. I'm not a trained automotive engineer. I'm not sure that many current production vehicles are built to last properly for more than 5 years or 100,000 miles. Then, hey; by or lease another one, eh?
Two cars I've owned could behave and perform without problems. A new, 1966 SS Chevy Chevelle, 4-speed manual transmission, fully designed and purchased with performance as the main reason. The engine was way beyond everyday needs. Yet, driving on a flat interstate at 60 mph, would yield 25 mpg. Most engines/vehicles have a 'sweet spot' for high mileage ranges. This engine did not have to 'work' hard to move the car. The second was a 2000 Buick LeSabre Limited. A very comfortable care, with many well thought design features, relative to the mechanicals. The 3.8 L (231 cubic inches), V-6 engine is one of the better modern engines ever built by GM. This engine was coupled with a 4 speed auto transmission. All day long driving north on the interstate towards the UP of Michigan at 75 mph would find 30 mpg. The one screw up from GM with this excellent engine was that some engines were manufactured with an inferior cylinder head gasket made for GM by a Brazilian vendor (to the best of my recall). This product failure became a 'recall' issue for GM. Our current Chrysler 300 (2012) is as quiet as any car I've known moving along at interstate speeds. This particular car has an Audi 8 transmission, as the company had not yet build there own 8 speeds. The V-6/8 speed allows for 33 mpg at 80 mph on flat terrain interstate driving. At 60 mph, 40 mpg. All of these numbers are 'without' cruise control.
While the many safety features that have taken place over the years for vehicles is wonderful, is that being cute with features from the marketing department has gone to the crazy side, IMHO. More stuff that can fail. This is reflected with insurance premiums being very expensive, too.
We have a 40 year old waffle iron. Works great. 'Course, we could buy a new one with ninja/turbo advertising features when using the 'wifi' connection, OR go to a yard sale or Goodwill and buy a replacement for $1.
I hope our current older vehicles outlast me.
But, too many folks don't give a glance to the operation manual for anything, SO they're already in trouble for maintenance and failure(s).
According to our mechanic, the 4 and 6 cylinder Toyota and Honda engines have been refined (not redesigned as in American cars) for the past 30 years to near perfection. Multi-port fuel injectors and variable cylinders have further improve their performance and fuel efficiency. Our youngest Odyssey is 13 years old while the Prius is 10 years old. Our next new vehicles will likely NOT be full electrical; hybrids would be more suitable as sold state battery technology continues to improve.
I am skeptical of JD Power report since we prefer the equivalent of the same from Consumer Reports. In it it breakdown which part of the model tends to require more maintenance. Also not all the drivetrain are the same within each car manufacturer, thus it should not be treated in one broad stroke.
How many drivers change turbo oil, lube, every 3000 miles? Another guess 3%.
I know very little about turbos , but a bit of human nature.
Like BMW, the nearest Lexus dealer is a 3 hour drive to Grand Rapids (mid-Michigan) under good conditions Another couple hours puts you in the metro-Detroit area where I counted 3 or 4 BMW dealers all within 10 miles of each other (how sweet). I did drive down & back to GR once this spring to check out new vehicles. But found that to do the round trip in one day and spend time looking at vehicles is challenging. Yep - Would love a Lexus. . Toyota has discontinued the Avalon. The replacement is the Toyota Crown, long a staple in Japan, but introduced to the U.S. just 2 years ago. Test drove one last spring. Just “so-so”. I told the salesman it was a good car to sell to the “hard-of-hearing” because there was some slight but annoying wind noise from the driver’s side A pillar. We even retracted the side view mirrors briefly to try and cancel the unwanted noise. Didn’t help. (But he enjoyed the joke).
@catch22 said, ”A turbo lives in a 'world of hell' relative to some other under the hood parts. It is driven by hot exhaust gases. Quality oil and required oil changes are mandatory, or the turbine bearings will have a short life.”
Thanks for the reminder. I’ve never owned one. But with the limited miles I put on a car (around 7,000 per year), I’d think a turbo would work for me. Yes, agree it would be more expensive to maintain. Most turbos I’ve seen require premium grade fuel which is a lot more expensive. Cheat by using regular and you can inflict long term engine damage.
“Buy vs. lease” ? Interesting question. I’ve always bought. The 2018 Accord Hybrid cost around $26,000 in ‘18. KBB puts the trade value above $19,000 now - 6.5 years later. Not bad. But inflation ran a bit high over those years. I pay cash of course. Financing would throw a new wrinkle into the equation. I like to carry a high collision deducible (currently $2500) to save on insurance. If financing (especially through a dealer) be careful there. Most, if not all, require 100% collision coverage. I’d expect (but don’t know) that leasing would also require 100% coverage.
Ques: Have you or anyone you know purchased a new car online?
The 'distance' from the zip code is default at 50 miles. You may change this.
For year, you may change this range. Example: 2022 and 2022 to find only that year.
There are other areas that may be defined below this.
Above LOCATION, you may change to another MAKE of vehicle.
The photos that arrive from the search may be selected, which will provide more info about that choice...scroll down.
The LEFT SIDE of the page contains a lot of filters to narrow a search.
I do believe the search will contain private sellers, as well as the dealerships.
Look around the site, and you'll discover what you need to do.
AutoTrader online
As to your most recent post......I don't know anyone who has used 'online', as in CARVANA. Our current vehicles had been 2 year company leased by others. So, we purchased these with 20,000 miles, and remaining company warranty periods still remaining. The pricing was very good for a basically very new car that had been maintained via the lease agreement. It appears all lease vehicle today are for 3 years.
Consumer Reports is the only unbiased report.
Since I arrived in the USA in 1991, the chances I would buy a European is slim, overpriced, and less reliable. After 3 years of American, I started reading CR and never bought one.
Toyota was the best, Honda not bad. The last 2 we bought in the last 2 years were Kia and Hyundai; we will see after 10 years.
I always bought new Toyota and Honda because they keep their prices too high, great for resale. I rather buy new and know what I get.
One interesting facet of the auto market I uncovered was the practice of punching. Helped explain how a CPO with only 3500 miles on it ended up in the same dealer’s used car lot just 3 months after being sold new. The purchaser was an VW affiliated Illinois based leasing company. But the company leased it back to that same Michigan dealer as a “loaner car” for less than 3 months before selling it back to the dealer who then discounted it heavily as a CPO. But it appears the car never really left the dealership.
Congratulations for the new Camry.
This vehicle has a long-standing reputation for reliabilty.
Performance and styling have been improved for the new, ninth generation Camry.
I purchased Michelin CrossClimate2 tires for my Golf earlier this year.
These tires received excellent performance ratings from Consumer Reports and Tire Rack.
I've been pleased with the CrossClimate2 tires but haven't had an opportunity to use them in the snow.
Purchased at an area Toyota dealership. There are 4 trim levels of the new Camry. I have the XSE which they consider a “sport” upgrade. Stiffer suspension. Explains why it came with special performance tires rather than the more typical all-season type. A bit disappointing, as all-season tires would probably have been adequate for the first winter.
Thanks for all the comments … You may now return to your favorite “Trump” thread.
Does the seat have up & down movement ? I'm not asking about tilt.
Enjoy your new ride, Derf