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One possible issue may be that 3rd parties can initiate taxable and IRA a/c transfers, but 401k/403b transfers must be initiated at the source - that may be a 3-way call involving the source target, and the a/c holder. In @MikeM case in 2014, source would have been Price, and 3rd party Schwab.
Yogi, I think this is saying what I said. I "rolled" a 401k to an IRA. Funds were not transferable. A "transfer" would be moving an account of the same kind to a different brokerage, example, IRA to IRA. In that case funds are transferable.
Am I wrong?
This is from what you linked:\
What is the difference between a transfer and a rollover? A transfer refers to a movement of funds between two accounts of the same type. These transfers do not get reported to the IRS and, therefore, can occur as often as you would like. Learn about account consolidation.
On the other hand, a rollover is when you move funds from one eligible retirement plan to another account of a different type. An example of a rollover would be a former employer's 401(k) account into an IRA. These transfers may generate a 1099 tax form but are not taxable if both accounts are of the same tax status. For example, if you move a Traditional 401(k) into a Traditional IRA or a Roth 401(k) into a Roth IRA. Learn more about rollovers.
BRUFX pulls up a quote at Schwab, but it's not available for purchase. So, it exists on Schwab platform, and should be transferrable in-kind. WBALX is no-load/NTF at Schwab.
"So it exists on Schwab platform" is a leap. Some brokerages provide quotes for funds that they cannot or will not hold. Vanguard is especially good in saying what it will or won't hold. Here's the quote for BRUFX I pulled up at Vanguard:
This fund is not available for purchase or transfer
This fund is not available for purchase and cannot be transferred to your Vanguard Brokerage Services® account from another financial institution.
Only a call to Schwab can determine transferability of BRUFX. Its Availability field isn't blank. Schwab indicates specific items in this field such as for redemption only, not available for purchase, open, blank, etc. https://www.schwab.com/research/mutual-funds/quotes/fees/brufx
I've had similar things happen, and just reloaded and the page came right up. It may or may not for you. But things are never down for long there, in my experience.
Just a heads up @Crash. When I transferred my 401k from TRP to a Schwab IRA back in 2014, Schwab told me they didn't allow transfers in-kind. Meaning all the money went to cash and I had to buy funds again. That is actually the reason I kept a sizeable amount in my 401k. It held PRWCX which was then closed and I wasn't going to be able to buy again.
Things may have changed now or maybe I didn't push hard enough at the time, but that's what happen with my transfer.
Oh, boy! Am I glad I read your message, @MikeM. I have a 4:00 appt. TODAY. I will be sure to mention it before anything transpires.
@Crash, above from yogi. There is a link that might help. There seems to be a difference between a transfer and a roll-over. But they will explain more I'm sure.
+1. I've done a bit of touring around, after logging in, last night. The trading platform or tool looks pretty straightforward. The proof will be in the pudding. Too many times, the TRP trading tool simply MALFUNCTIONED. Then the phone agent could not even be understood, and when I finally was able to "put 2 and together," I saw that he was not even talking about the same thing with me. ORK!
Schwab has handy quotes and indices right there in front of you on the webpage, too. Nice. When I called back today to Schwab, the fellow on the phone was clear. No problems at least, with his English. I must remember to ask the right questions, is all.
Obviously (from the title) the IRS considers everything a rollover, whether from/to a qualified plan or an IRA. It describes three types of rollovers:
1. Trustee-to-trustee transfer 2. Direct rollover (a check is issued payable to the new trustee) 3. Indirect (60 day) rollover
#3 does generate a 1099. You are not limited in the number of 60 day rolllovers you can do in a year from a qualified plan. But the employer will be required to withhold 20% for taxes.
You are also not limited in the number of 60 day rollover conversions (trad -> Roth). But you are limited to one IRA-to-IRA 60 day rollover (regardless of whether it is trad to trad or Roth to Roth).
For the record. A few years back I did two direct rollovers. One 401 k going to Schwab & one to Vanguard. Oops one came as a check to me. Checked the amount of the check against 401-k account. No with holdings. I didn't sign the check , but wrote on the back for the benefit of >>>> into IRA account XXX. Sent it on it's way . So far so good !
Schwab today assured me my shares from brokerage will transfer in-kind to new Schwab brokerage. And both IRA rollovers will be a direct rollover from BRUFX into new Schwab IRA, and the other from TRP to Schwab. Proceeds from any sales will go to CASH, and I'll have to manually move the money to a MMF to get a better rate--- as mentioned to me here in MFO.
@Crash- just curious- at your branch do you really need an appointment to do ordinary stuff, or just to reserve a time slot with the manager or an account specialist?
@Crash- just curious- at your branch do you really need an appointment to do ordinary stuff, or just to reserve a time slot with the manager or an account specialist?
Thanks- OJ
Surely for more lengthy conversations, an appt. is called for, like my very first visit in there. There is a further, follow-up item: I must get a TRP statement printed, but I own no printer. So he just asked what time I'd like to come in, and I'll simply login at TRP while I'm sitting there with my guy at Schwab, and he can take a screen grab or print the pertinent info. He's telling me that in about 5 years, this can all be done more seamlessly, online. But not yet. And we did need my wife's signatures on the joint brokerage account and also her IRA, to get it under the Schwab umbrella, anyhow.
"And we did need my wife's signatures on the joint brokerage account and also her IRA, to get it under the Schwab umbrella, anyhow."
Now that you have your accounts set up at Schwab that sort of stuff can also be done completely on-line, with easy forms where you just use a checkbox for the electronic "signatures". Just did exactly that with our joint account from American Funds. The transfers took about two days to complete.
I also transferred both of our IRA accounts the same way, and set up my wife's IRA so that I am authorized to but & sell. All of those accounts now appear on one consolidated page on-line. First time that I did anything like that at Schwab, and I got great help from the on-line "Chat" reps- I can't hear well enough to use the phone, so the "Chat" setup works great for me.
Good stuff, OJ. I just took care of some odds and ends details: empty-out PRTXX Treas. MMF. And canceled the automatic monthly w/d from checking, to buy shares in PRTXX at TRP. Glad the chat is useful. Every chat box i've ever tried to use before is nothing but a bot with canned answers.
No way- the first two sessions were out of Texas, the last one from Minneapolis, to my surprise. Definitely not robots... very nice and helpful women, all three times.
One thing I have noticed is when selling a stock at Schwab the proceeds are immediately available for trade. Not so at Fidelity, make take 2-3 days for settlement.
One thing I have noticed is when selling a stock at Schwab the proceeds are immediately available for trade. Not so at Fidelity, make take 2-3 days for settlement.
I have gotten burned on it at Schwab. What is shown as available on the Schwab Positions screen as available means just that - available with or without margin implications.
So, if you sell an ETF, look at $s available on Schwab Positions page, and buy a mutual fund with it, you WILL BE docked with 1-day margin interest (if there isn't any other cash in the account). This is due to the mismatch in T+2 (for ETFs) and T+1 (for mutual funds) settlements. BTW, this distinction will soon disappear as much of the stock/ETF/CEF trading will also be moving to T+1.
But if you then go to Schwab Balance screen, you will see a higher "Available to Trade" and a lower "Available to Withdraw". Watch the latter to avoid getting into this trap.
At Fido, things are more clear on the Balance screen as there is "Available Without Margin Implications". Also, in the Position screen, it is shown things as pending until the settlement date.
Comments
One possible issue may be that 3rd parties can initiate taxable and IRA a/c transfers, but 401k/403b transfers must be initiated at the source - that may be a 3-way call involving the source target, and the a/c holder. In @MikeM case in 2014, source would have been Price, and 3rd party Schwab.
Am I wrong?
This is from what you linked:\
What is the difference between a transfer and a rollover?
A transfer refers to a movement of funds between two accounts of the same type. These transfers do not get reported to the IRS and, therefore, can occur as often as you would like. Learn about account consolidation.
On the other hand, a rollover is when you move funds from one eligible retirement plan to another account of a different type. An example of a rollover would be a former employer's 401(k) account into an IRA. These transfers may generate a 1099 tax form but are not taxable if both accounts are of the same tax status. For example, if you move a Traditional 401(k) into a Traditional IRA or a Roth 401(k) into a Roth IRA. Learn more about rollovers.
https://investor.vanguard.com/investment-products/mutual-funds/profile/brufx
https://www.schwab.com/research/mutual-funds/quotes/fees/brufx
I have a 4:00 appt. TODAY. I will be sure to mention it before anything transpires.
I've done a bit of touring around, after logging in, last night. The trading platform or tool looks pretty straightforward. The proof will be in the pudding. Too many times, the TRP trading tool simply MALFUNCTIONED. Then the phone agent could not even be understood, and when I finally was able to "put 2 and together," I saw that he was not even talking about the same thing with me. ORK!
Schwab has handy quotes and indices right there in front of you on the webpage, too. Nice. When I called back today to Schwab, the fellow on the phone was clear. No problems at least, with his English. I must remember to ask the right questions, is all.
https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/plan-participant-employee/rollovers-of-retirement-plan-and-ira-distributions
Obviously (from the title) the IRS considers everything a rollover, whether from/to a qualified plan or an IRA. It describes three types of rollovers:
1. Trustee-to-trustee transfer
2. Direct rollover (a check is issued payable to the new trustee)
3. Indirect (60 day) rollover
#3 does generate a 1099. You are not limited in the number of 60 day rolllovers you can do in a year from a qualified plan. But the employer will be required to withhold 20% for taxes.
You are also not limited in the number of 60 day rollover conversions (trad -> Roth). But you are limited to one IRA-to-IRA 60 day rollover (regardless of whether it is trad to trad or Roth to Roth).
Proceeds from any sales will go to CASH, and I'll have to manually move the money to a MMF to get a better rate--- as mentioned to me here in MFO.
Thanks- OJ
Now that you have your accounts set up at Schwab that sort of stuff can also be done completely on-line, with easy forms where you just use a checkbox for the electronic "signatures". Just did exactly that with our joint account from American Funds. The transfers took about two days to complete.
I also transferred both of our IRA accounts the same way, and set up my wife's IRA so that I am authorized to but & sell. All of those accounts now appear on one consolidated page on-line. First time that I did anything like that at Schwab, and I got great help from the on-line "Chat" reps- I can't hear well enough to use the phone, so the "Chat" setup works great for me.
Good stuff, OJ. I just took care of some odds and ends details: empty-out PRTXX Treas. MMF. And canceled the automatic monthly w/d from checking, to buy shares in PRTXX at TRP. Glad the chat is useful. Every chat box i've ever tried to use before is nothing but a bot with canned answers.
So, if you sell an ETF, look at $s available on Schwab Positions page, and buy a mutual fund with it, you WILL BE docked with 1-day margin interest (if there isn't any other cash in the account). This is due to the mismatch in T+2 (for ETFs) and T+1 (for mutual funds) settlements. BTW, this distinction will soon disappear as much of the stock/ETF/CEF trading will also be moving to T+1.
But if you then go to Schwab Balance screen, you will see a higher "Available to Trade" and a lower "Available to Withdraw". Watch the latter to avoid getting into this trap.
At Fido, things are more clear on the Balance screen as there is "Available Without Margin Implications". Also, in the Position screen, it is shown things as pending until the settlement date.