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New Yahoo News/YouGov poll: Most Trump voters say they won't accept the 2020 results if Biden wins
“The Yahoo News survey was conducted by YouGov using a nationally representative sample of 1,506 U.S. adult residents interviewed online between July 28-30, 2020. This sample was weighted according to gender, age, race, and education, as well as 2016 presidential vote, registration status, geographic region and news interest. Respondents were selected from YouGov’s opt-in panel to be representative of all U.S residents. The margin of error is approximately 3.3 percent.”
I'd be willing to bet a substantial amount that these are the very same people who never "accepted" Barack Obama either. We can put Mitch McConnell right at the head of that list. So what's new?
IMHO Chris Wallace is one of the better political reporters / interviewers on air today. I try not to miss his Sunday broadcasts on Fox. I was surprised that the following exchange from Wallace’s near hour-long interview with President Trump on July 19 failed to generate any substantial attention in the national press.
“WALLACE: There is a tradition in this country -- in fact, one of the prides of this country -- is the peaceful transition of power and that no matter how hard-fought a campaign is, that at the end of the campaign that the loser concedes to the winner. Not saying that you're necessarily going to be the loser or the winner, but that the loser concedes to the winner and that the country comes together in part for the good of the country. Are you saying you're not prepared now to commit to that principle?
TRUMP: What I'm saying is that I will tell you at the time. I'll keep you in suspense. OK?“
As far as the crux of Louis’s linked story - If the candidate preaches daily the supposed invalidity of the coming election and people still rally behind him, than it stands to reason those people must agree with his position on such a cardinal issue. I’m tempted to say to Yahoo (or its pollsters): “Brilliant deduction!”
WaPo has reported that he is politicizing the MAIL. I just posted this on another thread: An expected item, postmarked on 24 July, just arrived today, 31 July. That's absurd. I guess the new Postmaster General, DeJoy, has not discovered airplanes yet. MOTHERLOVERS!
Dont worry Democrats- you ll get your mail in ballots, then you can further ruin the country with your Marxism- polls dont matter- voter suppression- keep dreaming- Lenin uber alles!!! I thought this was a discussion group about investing, not marxism 101
Dont worry Democrats- you ll get your mail in ballots, then you can further ruin the country with your Marxism- polls dont matter- voter suppression- keep dreaming- Lenin uber alles!!! I thought this was a discussion group about investing, not marxism 101
My, oh, my. Well, you're apt to find ANYTHING in an OFF-TOPIC thread, and we DO.
I’d love to hear BennyB’s views on the issue (vs name-calling). I try to ignore name-calling from both sides. It does nothing to enlighten or clarify the serious issues here and only heightens animal spirits. The Yahoo News poll cited by Louis and the Chris Wallace interview with the President I linked are not biased. Different persons can draw different opinions from each.
As I understand it the choices would seem to be:
1. Require in-person voting only come November, likely under pandemic conditions, even if it endangers the lives of many Americans - particularly those over 60.
2. Allow mail in voting subject to existing laws, court supervision, rigorous scrutiny and challenges from representatives of both major parties (pretty much the way walk-in voting is conducted now).
3. Postpone the election until the pandemic has ceased to be a serious threat to Americans’ safety.
4. Cancel the election and hope for better circumstances in 2024.
@BennieB - Any thoughts on those options - or others? You have a lot to offer to the discussion if you allow yourself to participate.
* Note: Louis posted this in the “Off-Topic” category. In terms of hierarchy, “off-topic” occupies the lowest step on the ladder. You and others may easily ignore the off-topic area if you frequent mfo only for investment news and discussion.
@hank: Don't get your hopes up for a logical and reasoned reply based upon verifiable facts. The infantile name-callers, from the top on down, aren't up for that sort of thing.
Oregon and Hawaii are all mail-in, now. My understanding is that in MA, the elderly have to give no reason at all for requesting an absentee ballot. The Orange Fool has put a donor-crony in charge of the P.O. with an agenda to sabotage its routine functioning. (WaPo.) I've already seen the mail slow down. It's being done deliberately, and that sucks. (Hawaii is the end of the line, after all.) In July, I received a routine bill with the due-date already past. Took 8 days for a 1st class item to get to me from western MA.
This is a REAL THING.
When we vote absentee through the mail, we must keep this in mind. Vote EARLY. Even unreasonably early. The Hawaii Primary is listed as Aug. 8, but a great many folks have surely sent their ballots already, like me. For the Primary, there are non-postal drop-boxes available in some different places. That might be the way to go!
Everyone in MA is allowed to vote by mail this year, no questions asked. We all received a postcard in the mail to send back to request a mail-in ballot. Although I love going to a polling place on election day, I will mail in my ballots (primary and general) to keep the poll workers safe.
I’ve found that most people are actually pretty nice when you get to know them individually. And I’m optimistic that with honest reasoned dialogue we could change a lot of minds. Let truth and reason prevail.
Benny’s reference to Marxism is interesting. Haven’t heard that one tossed out in a long time. Gosh - I was an undergraduate history major and did some post-graduate work in the field as well - though I’ve forgotten a lot over the years. A discussion of Karl Marx and his teachings in context of Russia at the time would be fascinating (but perhaps only for the two of us). Marx was idealistic. Ex-KGB operative Putin is pragmatic and corrupt. I’m not sure one or the other was / is necessarily better or worse for Russia (and mankind) taken in the context of the period in which he lived.
My proposal to promote better civic education would be to abolish Farcebook and the Russian trolls that frequent it - at least for 6 months before any major election. I personally know perfectly intelligent and well meaning individuals who get virtually 100% of their news there - and it shows in their distorted political perceptions.
BTW / OJ - Nice graphic from The Economist. I’m afraid we live in such turbulent times (when “up” sometimes seems like “down“) that resorting to graphics like that one - or to the eloquent refrains of writers like Dickens, Shakespeare, William Golding (Lord of the Flies) is perhaps a better way to try and cling to some semblance of reality.
@hank- Thanks. I'm afraid that it's been my long-term experience that people who need to resort to name-calling rants are simply incapable of any sort of a fact-based reasoned response. Surely you've seen that replayed, even here on MFO, over and over again. You challenge a position, invite a response and you get... silence.
It seems to me reasonable to believe that a certain percentage of people of that type have always been here among us, but lacked a unified platform where they could gather and amplify their rather warped perspective on reality. Because of that limitation, they didn't really pose a significant threat to the community of people who deal in fact-based reality- they were mostly just background noise.
The magic of technology: Facebook, Twitter "AM radio" and similar platforms have allowed those people to gather together, feed off of each other, amplify their beliefs, and now, as a unified group, pose a significant threat to the well-being of the United States. For that group it isn't necessary to substantiate any particular belief with any factual evidence... whatever they think, regardless of the actual facts, is accepted as "reality", and they have zero tolerance for anyone who doesn't see things the same way. If you don't share their views, you're a Communist Marxist fool.
Vaccinations are a plot to make people autistic. Coronavirus is a hoax- just another phony attempt to hurt Trump. And even if it is real, God will protect his true believers from it.
The repressionist freedom-hating state has no business ordering anyone to do anything with respect to public health safety. Just another Communist plot. Let's take our guns and go show the governor who is really in charge here.
"Frontline", a PBS series, ran an hour's worth of background information on Alex Jones the other evening. The Sandy Hook massacre of 26 schoolchildren didn't happen. It was a just another hoax with paid actors, just another attempt to ban guns.
Factcheckers monitoring content on Facebook have put a “partly false” label on the latest video that it said was manipulated to make it appear as if the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, was drunk or drugged, but by Monday the social media giant had refused to remove the video from its platform.
The video had been circulating on Facebook since Thursday and by Sunday night had been viewed more than 2m times, CNN reported. Instead of removing the new video, Facebook has given it a warning label... that still allows people to view it on the platform.
The new video was shared on Facebook on Saturday, accompanied by a caption reading: “This is unbelievable, she is blowed out of her mind, I bet this gets took down!”
Lead Stories, a member of Facebook’s independent factchecking network [noted that the video had been] “digitally slowed down to make it appear as if Pelosi was intoxicated”. The original video revealed [Pelosi] was speaking and acting normally.
A Facebook spokesperson told the Hill that the video did not meet the grounds for removal, based on company policies.
“This is garbage Facebook,” Christine Pelosi, the daughter of the congresswoman, said in a tweet. “You @ChanZuckerberg and @sherylsandberg are profiting off fake and vile attacks – and you need to stop. Tell the truth: the video is completely false. Pull it down!”
Comment: Pretty well speaks for itself, doesn't it:
“This is unbelievable, she is blowed out of her mind, I bet this gets took down!”
As for name-calling and four letter words: guilty. But I'm no Russian bot or Right-wing idiot who swallows all tRump crap whole. Quoting uncle Lewis Black here: "I try to be kind to these people. But it's as if they are watching "The Flintstones" and considering it to be a DOCUMENTARY."
Comments
“WALLACE: There is a tradition in this country -- in fact, one of the prides of this country -- is the peaceful transition of power and that no matter how hard-fought a campaign is, that at the end of the campaign that the loser concedes to the winner. Not saying that you're necessarily going to be the loser or the winner, but that the loser concedes to the winner and that the country comes together in part for the good of the country. Are you saying you're not prepared now to commit to that principle?
TRUMP: What I'm saying is that I will tell you at the time. I'll keep you in suspense. OK?“
LINK TO FULL TRANSCRIPT OF CHRIS WALLACE INTERVIEW WITH DONALD TRUMP, Fox News, July 19, 2020
As far as the crux of Louis’s linked story - If the candidate preaches daily the supposed invalidity of the coming election and people still rally behind him, than it stands to reason those people must agree with his position on such a cardinal issue. I’m tempted to say to Yahoo (or its pollsters): “Brilliant deduction!”
As I understand it the choices would seem to be:
1. Require in-person voting only come November, likely under pandemic conditions, even if it endangers the lives of many Americans - particularly those over 60.
2. Allow mail in voting subject to existing laws, court supervision, rigorous scrutiny and challenges from representatives of both major parties (pretty much the way walk-in voting is conducted now).
3. Postpone the election until the pandemic has ceased to be a serious threat to Americans’ safety.
4. Cancel the election and hope for better circumstances in 2024.
@BennieB - Any thoughts on those options - or others? You have a lot to offer to the discussion if you allow yourself to participate.
* Note: Louis posted this in the “Off-Topic” category. In terms of hierarchy, “off-topic” occupies the lowest step on the ladder. You and others may easily ignore the off-topic area if you frequent mfo only for investment news and discussion.
Graphic with thanks to The Economist
This is a REAL THING.
When we vote absentee through the mail, we must keep this in mind. Vote EARLY. Even unreasonably early. The Hawaii Primary is listed as Aug. 8, but a great many folks have surely sent their ballots already, like me. For the Primary, there are non-postal drop-boxes available in some different places. That might be the way to go!
Politicizing the mail. Utterly shameless.
I’ve found that most people are actually pretty nice when you get to know them individually. And I’m optimistic that with honest reasoned dialogue we could change a lot of minds. Let truth and reason prevail.
Benny’s reference to Marxism is interesting. Haven’t heard that one tossed out in a long time. Gosh - I was an undergraduate history major and did some post-graduate work in the field as well - though I’ve forgotten a lot over the years. A discussion of Karl Marx and his teachings in context of Russia at the time would be fascinating (but perhaps only for the two of us). Marx was idealistic. Ex-KGB operative Putin is pragmatic and corrupt. I’m not sure one or the other was / is necessarily better or worse for Russia (and mankind) taken in the context of the period in which he lived.
My proposal to promote better civic education would be to abolish Farcebook and the Russian trolls that frequent it - at least for 6 months before any major election. I personally know perfectly intelligent and well meaning individuals who get virtually 100% of their news there - and it shows in their distorted political perceptions.
BTW / OJ - Nice graphic from The Economist. I’m afraid we live in such turbulent times (when “up” sometimes seems like “down“) that resorting to graphics like that one - or to the eloquent refrains of writers like Dickens, Shakespeare, William Golding (Lord of the Flies) is perhaps a better way to try and cling to some semblance of reality.
Regards
It seems to me reasonable to believe that a certain percentage of people of that type have always been here among us, but lacked a unified platform where they could gather and amplify their rather warped perspective on reality. Because of that limitation, they didn't really pose a significant threat to the community of people who deal in fact-based reality- they were mostly just background noise.
The magic of technology: Facebook, Twitter "AM radio" and similar platforms have allowed those people to gather together, feed off of each other, amplify their beliefs, and now, as a unified group, pose a significant threat to the well-being of the United States. For that group it isn't necessary to substantiate any particular belief with any factual evidence... whatever they think, regardless of the actual facts, is accepted as "reality", and they have zero tolerance for anyone who doesn't see things the same way. If you don't share their views, you're a Communist Marxist fool.
Vaccinations are a plot to make people autistic. Coronavirus is a hoax- just another phony attempt to hurt Trump. And even if it is real, God will protect his true believers from it.
The repressionist freedom-hating state has no business ordering anyone to do anything with respect to public health safety. Just another Communist plot. Let's take our guns and go show the governor who is really in charge here.
"Frontline", a PBS series, ran an hour's worth of background information on Alex Jones the other evening. The Sandy Hook massacre of 26 schoolchildren didn't happen. It was a just another hoax with paid actors, just another attempt to ban guns.
It gets old, hank. Really old.
Don't wait up for Mr. BennyB.
Regards- OJ
These extracts are from a current article in The Guardian. They have been edited for brevity.
Comment: Pretty well speaks for itself, doesn't it:
Surely they wouldn't mislead us about that...