Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
I believe American history will show Asian immigrants, most notably Chinese, have been blatantly discriminated against forever. Heck, it was widely publicized in the 1800's that Chinese were, well, sub-human. Ever hear of the Chinese Exclusion Act. Lasted well into the 1900's. What did we do to Japanese decedents during WW2 (and of course not German immigrants)? You kind of get the picture of American history towards Asians. So, Harvard... just carrying on an American tradition I guess.
Any selective college can fill its freshman class --- and see almost no difference in makeup or achievement or much else --- with the second rejected batch of nn kids and many of them with the third rejected batch. This has been made clear on campus admissions talks for two decades and more. All of them have to make truly subjective decisions, hoping not to border on caprice. All want a good mix. It's a necessarily imperfect system. It serves no one to have a class that is half (other than gender) or 2/3 anything. It's a difficult and worthy debate what to aim for and how to achieve it. Many of the Crimson comments make you wonder about the sophistication of kids' thinking, though. Maurice, you can probably pick up material there.
Colleges like to admit more Asians because they pay more bucks when from out of state. Helps equal out the free tuition to instate illegals. Here in California anyway. It really is all about money. What is so hard to understand?
At Cal Berkeley in 2017, the freshmen class was approximately 9,715 in state students. Out of state increased 28% to 4,490. Somewhere around 32%.
Non residents pay a 28k supplemental premium. Why would you think out of state enrollment jumped 28%? I think to get around the caps being imposed next year.
Asian Americans are the largest group admitted to Cal Berkeley at 42.3% Just kind of mixing things together.
Smart, with money. Thats the way it works. I have no qualms with the numbers.
Where is the blatant racism? Lots of competing interests, social, educational, and other. Whose interest is served by filling an open school 100% with 'worthy' Jewish kids? Or Asian kids? Or indeed Catholic kids?
@davidrmoran. Haven't you heard about reverse racism? Harvard found out and is trying to combat it. It's quite blatant you see. So Harvard also has to be quite blatant about it. So now we have no issue. Just like if there was no racism, then there would not be any reason to counter it with reverse racism.
It all makes a lot of sense now.
The original problem started because so many Asians were being admitted to Harvard. SO MANY! One many, two many, SOOOOOO MANY! Hat's off to Harvard, really.
I think imho if there were no racisms nor guidelines, the committee just select candidates based on GPA mcat scores gre sat scores backgroundd... Harvard yale or many medical schools/most health care programs/post grad programs will be filled w many more Asian/Caucasian /Indians .... There will very little Hispanics/ African americans.
I was born “WASP” (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant). I’ve had every advantage imaginable due to that circumstance over my 70+ years. Being born WASP in this country is like starting the “Indy 500” 5-10 laps out ahead of everyone else. Sometimes I feel embarrassed to think how my birth color & parentage (which I had absolutely no control over) have advantaged me. I can’t imagine the challenges being a person of color or of Asian decent would have presented.
Discrimination is most often very subtle and hard to detect. Employers don’t “decline” your application for a job by stating they don’t like your skin color. Cops don’t pull you over late at night and say it’s because your race made them suspicious. Of course, it’s the broken taillight - or you appeared “confused” to them. The real estate agent doesn’t come out and blatantly declare that he or she thinks you’ll “fit in” better in this neighborhood or that. And we all know that the “Separate but Equal” schools that existed for many decades in this country were “separate” - but they sure weren’t “equal”.
I really think that if you’re born into a minority in this country you have to work harder and run faster just to stay even. I have nothing but respect for those folks. Reverse discrimination? ... I don’t think @Maurice would willingly trade places with those minority’s members - even were it possible. But if he could, he’d realize that the grass isn’t always greener on the other side - thought it may appear so through his cloudy lenses.
Harvard? If you’ve got the gumption and the smarts, you’ll succeed in life either with or without a degree from Harvard. Not having been selected for admission there shouldn’t keep you from achieving to your full potential. Only you can do that.
I think imho if there were no racisms nor guidelines, the committee just select candidates based on GPA mcat scores gre sat scores backgroundd... Harvard yale or many medical schools/most health care programs/post grad programs will be filled w many more Asian/Caucasian /Indians .... There will very little Hispanics/ African americans
Think racisms exist everyday in my views I was discriminated against many yrs during my college yr and not getting promoted nor the good work hrs/shifts even you know in ur heart you do better jobs than others. Others still favor their 'own' race. W my previous few jobs the managers go out of their way to hire certain groups despite the fact that there are more qualified people candidates that have different skin colors than their own. very sad but these situations may happen every day.
I was very lucky because I do have great work ethics, I work very hard and do good job many managers in later jobs enjoyed working w.me ...
I met one Hispanic rich persons 20 +yrs ago (was very wealthy) and he told me 'only money discriminate against people' ... I think his personal biased is very truth because once you have large capital enough money you have much more leverage to do more things /have better opportunity than persons that have less and less fortunate than you... Just my opinions
Troublesome precedent Harvard had in the past on Jewish applicants.
Harvard today engages in the same kind of discrimination and stereotyping that it used to justify quotas on Jewish applicants in the 1920s and 1930s.
Discrimination against race, sex, age and sexual orientation still persists today in hiring and promoting. Take a look at the demographic of top management of S&P500 companies. I know my company definitely follows that trend.
"Ivy League schools such as Harvard are not just trying to select the best academic performers but also the students who will go on to have the greatest success after graduation — and those aren’t necessarily the ones who got the highest test scores."
"There is, moreover, value in a diverse student body. You learn more about life if you go to class with people who are different from you — who have different abilities, different geographic origins, different social classes, different sexualities, different religions, different political views, and, yes, different ethnicities. You don’t necessarily want a student body made up entirely of bookworms"
"You can’t achieve a diverse class simply by taking the top test scores. Harvard found in a 2013 review that if it selected solely based on academic achievement, the number of Asian Americans would rise from what was then 19 percent to 43 percent — compared with a U.S. population that is just 5.7 percent Asian. The Supreme Court ruled in 2016 that schools could take race into account as long as it is one factor among many, and Harvard appears to be doing just that."
Comments
Oh wait...after Mexico, now we have a Chinese invasion...
Do see if you can find subtler coverage than some NYPost brief rehash.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/harvard-cant-have-it-all/2018/06/18/ec9f6522-730c-11e8-805c-4b67019fcfe4_story.html
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/6/15/admissions-internal-report/
Any selective college can fill its freshman class --- and see almost no difference in makeup or achievement or much else --- with the second rejected batch of nn kids and many of them with the third rejected batch. This has been made clear on campus admissions talks for two decades and more. All of them have to make truly subjective decisions, hoping not to border on caprice. All want a good mix. It's a necessarily imperfect system. It serves no one to have a class that is half (other than gender) or 2/3 anything. It's a difficult and worthy debate what to aim for and how to achieve it. Many of the Crimson comments make you wonder about the sophistication of kids' thinking, though. Maurice, you can probably pick up material there.
Care to back that up with a few facts? (That would be real facts, not the alternate type that you prefer.)
Non residents pay a 28k supplemental premium. Why would you think out of state enrollment jumped 28%? I think to get around the caps being imposed next year.
Asian Americans are the largest group admitted to Cal Berkeley at 42.3% Just kind of mixing things together.
Smart, with money. Thats the way it works. I have no qualms with the numbers.
For Real!
https://smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/einsteins-travel-diaries-reveal-his-deeply-troubling-views-race-180969387/
It all makes a lot of sense now.
The original problem started because so many Asians were being admitted to Harvard. SO MANY! One many, two many, SOOOOOO MANY! Hat's off to Harvard, really.
Discrimination is most often very subtle and hard to detect. Employers don’t “decline” your application for a job by stating they don’t like your skin color. Cops don’t pull you over late at night and say it’s because your race made them suspicious. Of course, it’s the broken taillight - or you appeared “confused” to them. The real estate agent doesn’t come out and blatantly declare that he or she thinks you’ll “fit in” better in this neighborhood or that. And we all know that the “Separate but Equal” schools that existed for many decades in this country were “separate” - but they sure weren’t “equal”.
I really think that if you’re born into a minority in this country you have to work harder and run faster just to stay even. I have nothing but respect for those folks. Reverse discrimination? ... I don’t think @Maurice would willingly trade places with those minority’s members - even were it possible. But if he could, he’d realize that the grass isn’t always greener on the other side - thought it may appear so through his cloudy lenses.
Harvard? If you’ve got the gumption and the smarts, you’ll succeed in life either with or without a degree from Harvard. Not having been selected for admission there shouldn’t keep you from achieving to your full potential. Only you can do that.
Make that 20 laps. WASPM (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Male)
I was very lucky because I do have great work ethics, I work very hard and do good job many managers in later jobs enjoyed working w.me ...
I met one Hispanic rich persons 20 +yrs ago (was very wealthy) and he told me 'only money discriminate against people' ... I think his personal biased is very truth because once you have large capital enough money you have much more leverage to do more things /have better opportunity than persons that have less and less fortunate than you... Just my opinions
"Ivy League schools such as Harvard are not just trying to select the best academic performers but also the students who will go on to have the greatest success after graduation — and those aren’t necessarily the ones who got the highest test scores."
"There is, moreover, value in a diverse student body. You learn more about life if you go to class with people who are different from you — who have different abilities, different geographic origins, different social classes, different sexualities, different religions, different political views, and, yes, different ethnicities. You don’t necessarily want a student body made up entirely of bookworms"
"You can’t achieve a diverse class simply by taking the top test scores. Harvard found in a 2013 review that if it selected solely based on academic achievement, the number of Asian Americans would rise from what was then 19 percent to 43 percent — compared with a U.S. population that is just 5.7 percent Asian. The Supreme Court ruled in 2016 that schools could take race into account as long as it is one factor among many, and Harvard appears to be doing just that."