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I am in the process of evaluating investing in one of these two funds. As I'm sure many of you know, both funds have excellent managers with long term outperformance of their benchmarks. Would value any thoughts that folks have on these 2 funds or other global funds to consider? Also, Charles would you be able to share any data on risk adjusted performance?
I am big fan of ARTKX/ARTGX mgrs. I have ARTKX from 2006, when I switched from OAKIX to it as it was more multicap compared to OAKIX. I did not buy ARTGX when they started it, which I regret in retrospect, and bought it last year.
In its short span, ARTGX has better risk adjusted returns and has better alpha and sharpe ratio. I compared it with OAKWX, OAKGX, and one of my other Global stock holding VHGEX (own it for lack of better options at Vangurd)
thanks very much for the feedback. this is very helpful. Might I ask what % of your portfolio ARTKX/ARTGX represent. I'm looking at a 10% commitment. thanks.
I have ARTKX close to 25% of my taxable portfolio, which consists of just 4 funds until recently but I sold OAKBX (after holding for 7 years), and AQRNX (like most of you), and hold only FPACX and ARTKX. My goal for this portfolio is short term, and converted to Mutual fund portfolio in 2006 when I sold all of my stocks.
ARTGX is 4% of my tax-deferred portfolio at this point of time but I would definitely consider adding to it on weakness.
I have PQIDX too in my tax-deferred account. I bought it It based on fund mgr's past record at Thornburg and endorsement of them by our fellow posters/friends on this board. FYI, PQIDX is Global/World allocation fund, not Global/World stock fund.
Thanks very much for sharing. Yes I also hold FPACX. My other mutual fund holdings in taxable accounts are HAINX, WGRNX, LLPFX and MSMLX. For tax deferred I'm 90% in the S&P 500 and 10%cash.
ARTGX is a rock-solid fund with a stellar risk/reward profile, and I would definitely prefer it over OAKWX. We are currently using the following global (equity, allocation) funds: MSFAX, DGSCX, PQIIX and TIBIX.
Charles -- thanks so much for providing this detailed breakdown. extremely helpful. I appreciate it. This will help a great deal with making a decision. I had a couple of questions that I sent you a message about. Kevin-- thanks very much for your thoughts on this
Reply to @MikeW: My pleasure. Your question about why did ARTGX receive a higher risk rating than MDISX is simply because of its higher volatility relative to market. Strictly based on numbers. Strictly based on past performance. No other subjective assessment made or implied.
The risk rank looks at ALL three volatility measures (standard...good and bad, downside...bad, and Ulcer...really bad...aka drawdown index). And, it looks at ALL evaluation periods.
So, bottom-line is Mutual and First Eagle tend to have lower volatility than Artisan. But Artisan beats in risk-adjusted performance more recently, as depicted in the performance rankings.
Please be sure to re-read David's profiles as well on ARTGX and ARTHX.
Honestly, the funds you are considering are among the best the industry has to offer in these categories. Light years ahead of say these hoots...
Thanks very much for the time you put into this Charles. You are tireless and a wonderful resource to us all! We're lucky to have you as part of the community.
Artisan has a number of global funds managed by different teams. So, far they all have been generally successful investors as global fund managers.
ARTHX is brought by the team behind ARTIX and ARTJX (closed) and it is a growth leaning fund. There was also another co-manager from MFS but he left at the beginning of the year but fund has done well under the team lead by Mark Yockey. Fund still has small asset base and Yockey has done very well when ARTIX asset base was small. ER = 1.50%
ARTRX is brought by the team behind ARTMX and ARTSX and it is also a growthy fund. The fund was initially started as a domestic fund and later switched mandate to global. This fund has more Emerging markets exposure than either ARTHX and ARTGX. Fund is not as small as ARTHX but still considered pretty small. Expense ratio is smaller than other Artisan global funds. ER = 1.34%
ARTGX is brought by the team behind ARTKX (closed) and is a value/blend leaning fund. This fund has the longest track record among all Artisan global funds and it currently has about the same asset base as ARTRX. ER = 1.50%
ARTWX is also brought by the team behind ARTIX and ARTJX and is just launched last month although it has been on the drawing board for some time. It is just too early to say much about this. You are basically rolling the dice on this based on the quality and experience of team and reputation of Artisan. ER = 1.50%
I own ARTHX and I like it more than ARTRX. I also own a token amount in ARTWX. Because I own ARTKX, I have not invested in ARTGX.
Reply to @Heathbob: ARTHX has a smaller asset base. Portfolio is composed of stocks that are less expensive by valuation metrics. I also like the fact that 1/3 of the portfolio is in defensive consumer stocks with more predictable performance as opposed to Tech stocks that ARTRX likes to invest in. Also, ARTHX investing team is more experienced in international stocks than ARTRX.
Investor, Thanks very much for the detailed analysis of the different Artisan funds. I'm going to take a look at Mark Yockey's funds also and compare them to Global Value. It appears from your description that he's changed his investment style somewhat. He used to be a much more growth oriented investor and took on more risk. Do you know if this was in response to the Crash in 2008? Did he purposely dial down on the risk side?
Joe, Thanks for the heads up on Seafarer. I know there's alot of enthusiasm for the fund on this board. I'll check out the links and listen to the call. I know that Foster has suffered with the downturn in emerging markets over the past year. But, he has always struck me as a very thoughtful and focused investor. He sticks to his guns.
I also really like ARTGX as well - and have mentioned in the past that I was invested in it. When I started investing in it - it only had around $70M in assets. In fact, it was featured as one of David Snowball's "Stars in the Shadows" fund. It was actually a bit perplexing as to why the fund had so little assets.
If you are a value-conscious style investor - they do a good job on keeping a disciplined quality-value style which can be a good complementary form of value especially if you are holding other deep or contrarian value style funds.
Good discussion above in this thread including the one by Investor on the various Artisan Funds. Both ARTHX and ARTRX are growth-oriented funds with ARTRX more growthier.
ARTHX I would say is a deeper global fund - meaning it'll probably reach more global markets. Right now - it has 30% in Emerging Markets including Nigeria and Cambodia - Top 10 holdings include Dangote Cement PLC of Nigeria.
Whereas right now ARTRX has 10% in EM and has a heavier weighting (close to 60%) in the US. The team has done very well with US growth-oriented investing over the long-term whereby a lot of funds in this style have done horribly or mediocre. I think of ARTRX as a more US-leaning fund (as it was originally focused on just the US) but they have just changed the name and opened the borders so that it's not just limited to US companies. ARTHX on the other hand, is starting out of the gates with a more global reaching pedigree.
So both can be very good depending on your perspective and style you're looking for and whether you're looking for a more deeper global growth-oriented fund (ARTHX) or a more US-leaning heavy growth-oriented fund with capabilities to go beyond US borders for some global diversity (ARTRX).
ARTWX - Global Smallcap is a tricky one - it's very concentrated with only 32 names. So the jury is still out even though Yockey has long-term success with his International Smallcap fund. I'm still going to stick with Grandeur Peak Global (Smallcap) GPGOX for now.
Just wanted to thank everyone for the invaluable information and commentary contained in this thread. Excellent explanation and analysis of the Artisan funds along with the various managers styles, in addition to the very thorough research done by Charles.
Am currently going through the EXACT same situation, and ended up holding off on OAKWX and am adding more to ARTGX (same 4% allocation as mrc70). Planted a little seed in ARTWX and WISH ARTKX was open. For large cap international exposure, I went with TBGVX in a more conservative account and combo of OAKIX & FMIJX in another (supplemented with MAPIX & MACSX, respectively), FWIW.
Good recommendation of SFGIX, which I found out about thanks to this site.
Reply to @TonyGstring: You have a pretty strong international combo! ARTKX has shown it's international quality-value investing style with excellent 3, 5 and 10 year performances. Although it's closed to new investors - be glad you're in ARTGX as that's the same investment team and the 2 funds pretty much have the exact same investing style.
I also do like your FMIJX pick --- team managed and I think has one of the closest investing styles to ARTKX from a fund outside of Artisan. FMI has also done quite well with their US focused funds (FMIHX and FMIMX are closed to new investors though). http://www.fiduciarymgt.com/funds/fmijx/FMIJX_snapshot.pdf
As of 6/30/2013 --- FMIJX is holding 14% cash because...
The blind trust in central bankers, and the notion that easy money and deficit spending will be able to solve a long list of deep-rooted structural problems, is grossly misguided. These monetary and Keynesian policies are dangerous over the long run, and create a false sense of hope and security. In light of the circumstances, we will continue to remain cautious, allocating capital with a keen focus on downside risks. We continually strive to find superior business franchises with strong management teams and balance sheets that trade at a discount to the market and to our estimates of intrinsic value. We anticipate better opportunities as markets reflect a more realistic assessment of risks and growth. Typically the best investments arise in moments of great fear and uncertainty. We will be ready.
{...}
We have articulated extensive turmoil in markets around the globe. When combined with high levels of debt in the system, it has caused us to be even more prudent and cautious in our investment process. Despite our concerns, we do expect that the FMI International Fund will hold up well in a difficult environment. Our goal is to achieve an above-average return while taking below-average risk. We believe the quality of our businesses is superior to that of the market, as we target durable franchises with defendable competitive advantages and barriers to entry. To support this claim, we note that the weighted average return on invested capital (ROIC) of the Fund’s investments is estimated to be approximately 22%11 higher than that of the iShares MSCI EAFE ETF through the trailing 12-month period ended June 30. Our companies’ balance sheets are robust, and they are led by strong, shareholder-friendly management teams. The portfolio trades at a sizeable valuation discount to the iShares MSCI EAFE ETF, at a weighted average P/E of 14.9 times (vs. 22.3 times, a discount of approximately 33%) and EV/EBITDA of 7.9 times (vs. 10.2 times, a discount of approximately 23%). Additionally, we are holding more cash than normal, as we have found it difficult to find replacements for some of the holdings that we have sold. A pullback in the market would create an attractive buying opportunity, and we will be prepared to seize the moment.
Reply to @TonyGstring: Hi Tony, ARTKX is great, but you're getting a lot of the specific stocks in ARTGX, not just the investment style alone. Last I checked on M* stock intersection a couple of months ago, the overlap was 22 stocks (of 45 in ARTKX and 44 in ARTGX). Happy investing ... AJ
This is a wonderful discussion everyone. Thanks so much for contributing your thoughts, inputs, and advice. This is exactly why I feel lucky to participate in Mutual Fund Observer. I couldn't get this good advice from my financial consultant. Kenster thanks so much for providing a further breakdown on Artisan -- very helpful. Also, that's a great piece of info from FMI -- I value their opinions alot -- good to know that they are holding onto cash right now.
Yes. High ER is impediment to outperformance. However if a fund consistently does that, people will pay.
Positive spin on "you get what you pay for". Of course, "reversion to the mean argument" implies you need to buy the closest index fund which over the long term could give you identical and more tax efficient returns.
Certain funds, you have to make a call on. Mostly, I have stopped buying traditional Large/Small/Mid/global funds. Except a few companies like Artisan, Oakmark...
I see here on this thread that some people say Artisan global select has better risk adjusted returns than Oakmark global select, but Oakmark has a much lower ER. I think in the long term this will be a big advantga for Oakmark.
Comments
I am big fan of ARTKX/ARTGX mgrs. I have ARTKX from 2006, when I switched from OAKIX to it as it was more multicap compared to OAKIX. I did not buy ARTGX when they started it, which I regret in retrospect, and bought it last year.
In its short span, ARTGX has better risk adjusted returns and has better alpha and sharpe ratio. I compared it with OAKWX, OAKGX, and one of my other Global stock holding VHGEX (own it for lack of better options at Vangurd)
ARTGX is 4% of my tax-deferred portfolio at this point of time but I would definitely consider adding to it on weakness.
I have PQIDX too in my tax-deferred account. I bought it It based on fund mgr's past record at Thornburg and endorsement of them by our fellow posters/friends on this board. FYI, PQIDX is Global/World allocation fund, not Global/World stock fund.
ARTGX is a rock-solid fund with a stellar risk/reward profile, and I would definitely prefer it over OAKWX. We are currently using the following global (equity, allocation) funds: MSFAX, DGSCX, PQIIX and TIBIX.
Kevin
Kevin-- thanks very much for your thoughts on this
The risk rank looks at ALL three volatility measures (standard...good and bad, downside...bad, and Ulcer...really bad...aka drawdown index). And, it looks at ALL evaluation periods.
So, bottom-line is Mutual and First Eagle tend to have lower volatility than Artisan. But Artisan beats in risk-adjusted performance more recently, as depicted in the performance rankings.
Please be sure to re-read David's profiles as well on ARTGX and ARTHX.
Honestly, the funds you are considering are among the best the industry has to offer in these categories. Light years ahead of say these hoots...
Hope that helps. Good luck Mike. Charles
Michael
Artisan has a number of global funds managed by different teams. So, far they all have been generally successful investors as global fund managers.
ARTHX is brought by the team behind ARTIX and ARTJX (closed) and it is a growth leaning fund. There was also another co-manager from MFS but he left at the beginning of the year but fund has done well under the team lead by Mark Yockey. Fund still has small asset base and Yockey has done very well when ARTIX asset base was small. ER = 1.50%
ARTRX is brought by the team behind ARTMX and ARTSX and it is also a growthy fund. The fund was initially started as a domestic fund and later switched mandate to global. This fund has more Emerging markets exposure than either ARTHX and ARTGX. Fund is not as small as ARTHX but still considered pretty small. Expense ratio is smaller than other Artisan global funds. ER = 1.34%
ARTGX is brought by the team behind ARTKX (closed) and is a value/blend leaning fund. This fund has the longest track record among all Artisan global funds and it currently has about the same asset base as ARTRX. ER = 1.50%
ARTWX is also brought by the team behind ARTIX and ARTJX and is just launched last month although it has been on the drawing board for some time. It is just too early to say much about this. You are basically rolling the dice on this based on the quality and experience of team and reputation of Artisan. ER = 1.50%
I own ARTHX and I like it more than ARTRX. I also own a token amount in ARTWX. Because I own ARTKX, I have not invested in ARTGX.
Thanks. That is a nice detailed summary of the Artisan funds.
Kevin
Thanks very much for the detailed analysis of the different Artisan funds. I'm going to take a look at Mark Yockey's funds also and compare them to Global Value. It appears from your description that he's changed his investment style somewhat. He used to be a much more growth oriented investor and took on more risk. Do you know if this was in response to the Crash in 2008? Did he purposely dial down on the risk side?
Joe,
Thanks for the heads up on Seafarer. I know there's alot of enthusiasm for the fund on this board. I'll check out the links and listen to the call. I know that Foster has suffered with the downturn in emerging markets over the past year. But, he has always struck me as a very thoughtful and focused investor. He sticks to his guns.
If you are a value-conscious style investor - they do a good job on keeping a disciplined quality-value style which can be a good complementary form of value especially if you are holding other deep or contrarian value style funds.
ARTHX I would say is a deeper global fund - meaning it'll probably reach more global markets. Right now - it has 30% in Emerging Markets including Nigeria and Cambodia - Top 10 holdings include Dangote Cement PLC of Nigeria.
Whereas right now ARTRX has 10% in EM and has a heavier weighting (close to 60%) in the US. The team has done very well with US growth-oriented investing over the long-term whereby a lot of funds in this style have done horribly or mediocre. I think of ARTRX as a more US-leaning fund (as it was originally focused on just the US) but they have just changed the name and opened the borders so that it's not just limited to US companies. ARTHX on the other hand, is starting out of the gates with a more global reaching pedigree.
So both can be very good depending on your perspective and style you're looking for and whether you're looking for a more deeper global growth-oriented fund (ARTHX) or a more US-leaning heavy growth-oriented fund with capabilities to go beyond US borders for some global diversity (ARTRX).
ARTWX - Global Smallcap is a tricky one - it's very concentrated with only 32 names. So the jury is still out even though Yockey has long-term success with his International Smallcap fund. I'm still going to stick with Grandeur Peak Global (Smallcap) GPGOX for now.
Am currently going through the EXACT same situation, and ended up holding off on OAKWX and am adding more to ARTGX (same 4% allocation as mrc70). Planted a little seed in ARTWX and WISH ARTKX was open. For large cap international exposure, I went with TBGVX in a more conservative account and combo of OAKIX & FMIJX in another (supplemented with MAPIX & MACSX, respectively), FWIW.
Good recommendation of SFGIX, which I found out about thanks to this site.
I also do like your FMIJX pick --- team managed and I think has one of the closest investing styles to ARTKX from a fund outside of Artisan. FMI has also done quite well with their US focused funds (FMIHX and FMIMX are closed to new investors though).
http://www.fiduciarymgt.com/funds/fmijx/FMIJX_snapshot.pdf
As of 6/30/2013 --- FMIJX is holding 14% cash because...
@AndyJ: Thanks, that's good to know and does make me feel better
You guys rock.
Positive spin on "you get what you pay for". Of course, "reversion to the mean argument" implies you need to buy the closest index fund which over the long term could give you identical and more tax efficient returns.
Certain funds, you have to make a call on. Mostly, I have stopped buying traditional Large/Small/Mid/global funds. Except a few companies like Artisan, Oakmark...