Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

In this Discussion

Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.

    Support MFO

  • Donate through PayPal

giroux m* update


usual accolades, but prompted me to scan his holdings.

unsure which\how many bank loans are still in from his great reward:risk call a few years back.
artisan had a good update on this niche:
https://www.artisancanvas.com/en.entry.html/2025/09/02/not_your_parentsloanmarketstructuralshiftsc-tqGI.html

also noticed holding called 'filtration'.
could this be a holding in private european 'filtration group'? looks like an appealing subsector, and also unusual as a non-american holding.

Comments

  • latest portfolio info for PRWCX: Dinky linky.

    I haven't read your link yet, but I will. I always like to read about why it's different this time.
  • From the previously linked report::
    The loan market has grown substantially over the past 20 years to $1.6 trillion in size, now exceeding the high yield bond market in total par outstanding. Concurrent with the growth of the market has been a gradual shift lower in credit quality, when measured using rating agencies as a proxy. Since 2005, the median issuer net leverage in the loan market has increased more than in the high yield bond market. As a result, while the high yield market has “high-graded” in recent years, the average quality in the loan market has shifted from previously a BB oriented market to a segment that is more single-B focused.
    A little while back I posted a commentary from OSTIX noting the same phenomena. At the time they weren't feeling the need to get into bank loans.

    Since bank loans are still around 27% of the income sleeve at PRWCX, I hope they are as judicious as the folks at Artisan Partners claim to be.

  • thx for link.
    yes, i feel giroux's team has earned trust not only on dynamic allocation, but on selection within an asset class. (latter being artisan's point)

    wish fees were a bit lower, but i need to pay for talent in largecap GARP, as i could never select\hold myself.
    am trying to get some experience playing with such in downcap owner/operator space, where there is no overlap here and w/primecap.
    its fun, but queasy-going for core value investor aware of base rates on growth forecasts.
  • +
    prwcx ~10% bank loans
    prcfx unlisted !
  • edited September 24
    Every now and then I get the urge to downsize my PRWCX position for one reason or other but have yet to pull the trigger. However I may finally start that in Dec as I keep repositioning that portfolio to have more international and income tiltings.

    A little voice in my head (which can be wrong) keeps thinking that Giroux will retire from the fund sometime soon. I mean he's been on it for nearly 20 years now....
  • Why would anyone invest with TROW nowadays? This company is not what it used to be in prior decades. Their lineup of funds have lagged. And, PRWCX will not be what it has been in the past. It is hard for the firm to attract top talent. Just buy a super low fee S&P500 index and some BRK.B. Keep your costs low.
  • Look at the last five years performance for PRWCX. It has underperformed both VWELX and VBINX. High fees and TROW’s inability to attract and retain talent in their research analysts division has led to underperforming funds. This trend will continue worsening.
  • It has underperformed both VWELX and VBINX
    ???

    PRWCX 5 year performance (through 9/26/25): 11.65% (annualized)
    VWELX 5 year performance (through 9/26/25): 10.52%
    VBINX 5 year performance (through 9/26/25): 9.25%

    Portfolio Visualizer gives similar results when looking at returns from Sept 2020 - Aug 2025.
  • msf said:

    It has underperformed both VWELX and VBINX
    ???

    PRWCX 5 year performance (through 9/26/25): 11.65% (annualized)
    VWELX 5 year performance (through 9/26/25): 10.52%
    VBINX 5 year performance (through 9/26/25): 9.25%

    Portfolio Visualizer gives similar results when looking at returns from Sept 2020 - Aug 2025.

    That’s interesting. Appreciate your comment. I used Chart Fund on M*; Growth including Dividends; 5 year period. For some reason it provided me with different results and I’m not sure why. Definitely wasn’t knowingly providing false information.

  • The nice thing about financial information sources is that there are so many different results to choose from.:)
  • Old_Joe said:

    The nice thing about financial information sources is that there are so many different results to choose from.:)

    And if not, ChatGPT can always make some up....!

  • where do you think AI learned expounding nonsense with supreme false confidence?
    from us organics!
  • Definitely wasn’t knowingly providing false information.

    I appreciate that and wasn't suggesting otherwise. Just that the numbers looked weird. Thanks for the response.
  • “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.”
    ― Mark Twain
  • edited September 30
    Just watching PRWCX from a distance, Giroux seems to be in defensive mode. Expecting better buying opportunities ahead. +10.20% over the past year ain’t nothing to sneeze at. Not leading the pack either. His 3-5 year time horizon is probably a lot shorter than for many funds. I appreciate that @msf is so proficient at catching / correcting errors. Tremendous asset to MFO. He’ll probably correct something I said here.
  • He’ll probably correct something I said here.

    Is that a challenge?:-)

    I suppose sometimes I nitpick, but I usually just respond to things that, as I wrote, seem "weird".
  • edited September 30
    :) My generic “ … not leading the pack” isn’t substantiated. Not sure what I’d compare PRWCX to. I’m running slightly ahead of PRWCX’s 10.28% YTD, which highly unusual. I generally lag. And in The Observer’s September issue @David_Snowball reports: ”My Indolent Portfolio, at just 50% stocks, has returned a lovely 11.25% so far this year, which strikes me as entirely excellent for a low-drama, low ulcer strategy.”

    Re “From a distance” - I track PRWCX daily. Recently it fell more in a day than any of the 12-15 other assorted funds I track. I guessed then that he had some rate sensitive bonds, because rates had spiked that day. Knowing the history and philosophy of PRWCX I doubt the fund has much, if anything, in gold and the p/c miners. That would lower its performance compared to the crowd. But I might be wrong.
  • beebee
    edited September 30
    hank said:

    :) strikes me as entirely excellent for a low-drama, low ulcer strategy.”

    I saved this chart at some point and revisited it today. Struck me as something @David_Snowball had shared:
    Link to image:
    https://app.screencast.com/OaRqGlzwseQcb?conversation=qNo8KtYT1R4jNcS9JH9QhR

    Found the link:
    https://mutualfundobserver.com/2023/05/investing-without-an-ulcer/


  • PRWCX last 52W is at 10.01% vs. VWELX at 13.03%. As per barchart.com
  • masterd said:

    msf said:

    It has underperformed both VWELX and VBINX
    ???

    PRWCX 5 year performance (through 9/26/25): 11.65% (annualized)
    VWELX 5 year performance (through 9/26/25): 10.52%
    VBINX 5 year performance (through 9/26/25): 9.25%

    Portfolio Visualizer gives similar results when looking at returns from Sept 2020 - Aug 2025.

    That’s interesting. Appreciate your comment. I used Chart Fund on M*; Growth including Dividends; 5 year period. For some reason it provided me with different results and I’m not sure why. Definitely wasn’t knowingly providing false information.

    Looks like you did something wrong. As has been noted, M*$10k growth chart shows PRWCX +74% and the other two almost 10 and 20 points behind. (Assuming I am doing it right.)
  • edited September 30
    Thank you @bee for the link to David’s “Investing Without An Ulcer” piece. (Your 2nd link) Nice.

    Omeprazole is a common ulcer medication. Not on that. But am currently using 2% injections of SPDN, DOG, TAIL and SJB. (Hurts just a little.) Hold them until the market nonsense abates - probably a long while. Maybe not in our lifetimes.
  • edited September 30
    PRWCX is underperforming VWELX for various time periods 3 months to 3 years. 5 and above it has outperformed VWELX

    I hold a small position in TRAIX with the hope of scaling up if this fund starts firing again. Giroux has a great long term track record.

    https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/fund-performance?s=y&sl=4VSTgvOMP3SRfjVH0g4UM5

  • edited October 1

    “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.”
    ― Mark Twain

    Here’s what I know for sure….I would never pay a fee to have someone else manage my money. So all actively managed funds would be out for me. Since before PRWCX inception, we’ve owned Berkshire Hathaway stock and a S&P500 index fund. Have continued buying more of those securities for over four decades. That’s worked out pretty well. No fees to any fund manager. David Giroux has never owned Berkshire Hathaway because he thinks the stock is overpriced.
Sign In or Register to comment.