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I currently have RPHIX, but since it is not NTF/Schwab and a rather high ER, I am looking for another short-term bond fund that I can add to periodically without incurring a fee. Do you have any suggestions? I have been looking at WEFIX.
I believe RPHYX is no TF at Schwab, but that doesn't help you with the higher than normal ER (1.19%). I don't think to much about the ER since, even being on the high side, the risk reward is so good. FWIW, I've also held FLRN (SPDR Bloomberg Investment Grade Floating Rate) for years as a steady-eddy income fund, though this one has had a couple hiccups along the way.
@MikeM - exactly what I was going to say! Along with FLRN there's also FLOT. They're not quite indistinguishable, but pretty close.
The knock against IG floating rate funds is that they don't do as well in falling interest rate environments. Or so I've read. And until this month (Oct) WCPNX was slightly outperforming them YTD, though not now.
A question is what you are looking for. RPHYX/RPHIX may be unique in how it invests. This results in after-expense returns that are extremely steady and IMHO worth the cost. Funds like FLRN and FLOT invest more traditionally and have slightly higher volatility and slightly lower returns. They are still well within the ultra-short duration and volatility ranges.
WCPNX is a traditional short term bond fund. As such, it can get jostled by market disruptions (see, e.g. 2022 and March 2020). The floating rate funds also got hit in March 2020, a market "blip" that affected pretty much everything. They held up nicely in 2022. Also, Schwab imposes a fee if you sell WCPNX within 90 days of purchase.
So WCPNX is a good fund if you're anticipating holding it for awhile (at least a year), but perhaps there are better choices if you are looking very short term.
Be advised that WCPNX changed name and strategy at the end of 2016. It had been Weitz Short-Intermediate Income Fund.
I currently have RPHIX, but since it is not NTF/Schwab and a rather high ER, I am looking for another short-term bond fund that I can add to periodically without incurring a fee. Do you have any suggestions? I have been looking at WEFIX.
With a change like that, it seems you are also interested in going a little longer on duration and seeking much higher credit quality. Is that about right?
Many bond investors make decisions based on what happened before while missing what is in front of them. RPHIX,FLOT and FLRN make sense. If you use a chart and use all the funds for YTD, the others have a lot more volatility and not much to show for. The CLO good uptrend with low SD and short duration still makes sense. See the chart below for CLOZ and others.
If M* can be trusted: WCPNX. ER = 0.65% -duration is out to 5.5 years, now. That smells more like intermediate-term.
-risk, looking back 3 years: just 20 out of 100, on their proprietary scale. -LOW risk, HIGH returns. -zero in equities. 0.97% in cash. So, fully invested.
I own it, and am growing it. Since I got in several weeks ago, it's been dead. Maybe I should not be so patient, but the sadistics and ratings (not just at Morningstar) look attractive. It fits into the frame of what I've been wanting to initiate in my taxable.
Sometimes a picture paints a clearer picture @Crash. WCPNX has more volatility than others with less return to show for it. I'm sure it is a fine fund, Weitz is a good bond house. It's just that M*s glowing statistics compared to pictorial comparisons may not jive.
Hopefully this link works. It has examples of a couple low volatility funds the poster was looking for, and a few of multisector/intermediate funds with low volatility trends. My preference is the straightest trend lines available.
Agree @Old_Joe. I own them all, except WCPNX. I've been adding to bond funds since late 2023. CSOIX is a 5*, but maybe more meaningful it's a Great Owl, Steady trend lines are a big seller for me. THOPX is the newest addition. There's been a lot of positive press on the board about it. Hope I didn't jink it by adding it to the group.
Sometimes a picture paints a clearer picture. WCPNX has more volatility than others with less return to show for it. I'm sure it is a fine fund, Weitz is a good bond house. It's just that M*s glowing statistics compared to pictorial comparisons may not jive.
My error (repeatedly). I meant to refer to the original proposed fund, WEFIX, but my mind locked on WCPNX. My original comments apply to WEFIX, not to WCPNX. WEFIX is a traditional short term bond fund with the interest rate risk exposure that implies. In contrast, FLRN, FLOT, RPHIX have little interest risk exposure.
Regarding WCPNX: it has held up relatively well for its category, intermediate core plus. This can be attributed in part to its shorter than average duration (for its category). It is not something I would suggest as an alternative for RPHIX and I apologize for the confusion.
Maybe look into MYFRX. This is the institutional share class, and it has no transaction fee. I regard it as steady and comparable to RPHIX in returns (and better than RPHIX over the last 6 month, 1 year, and 2 year trailing returns). Alternatively, maybe consider the ETF MINT?
I currently have RPHIX, but since it is not NTF/Schwab and a rather high ER, I am looking for another short-term bond fund that I can add to periodically without incurring a fee. Do you have any suggestions? I have been looking at WEFIX.
You may want to check out DHEAX, a short term bond fund with with an excellent risk/reward profile (SD=2.39%). It's NTF at Fidelity, don't know about Schwab. Good luck.
When I search Schwab for CSOIX I get no result, so I searched for "Credit Suisse Strategic Income" by name, and Schwab turns up "Credit Suisse Strategic Income A, CSOAX".
That looks like the same fund, but shows a Max. Front Load of 4.75% with a note that says "* This fund is available without load at Schwab." Further info: No Transaction Fee; $49.95 Short-Term (90 days) Redemption Fee.
Are we talking about the same animal here? Thanks...
It is the same fund @Old_Joe. I own CSOAX through Schwab. I used the institutional version CSOIX in my trend chart because, for some reason, Stockcharts doesn't recognize CSOAX.
Is selecting THOPX performance chasing and I am going against my original criteria-low risk?
Probably both. It is not in the same low risk category as RPHIX, but it appears to be a decent short term bond fund over the long haul. Not meeting the low risk of RPHIX may be true of most of the funds mentioned here, other than maybe FLRN, FLOT or MINT.
Risk ! If memory serves me, RPHIX started out with a NAV of $10.00 or at least the brother version RPHYX $ amount to start the first buy was at $10.00. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Is selecting THOPX performance chasing and I am going against my original criteria-low risk?
I sold THOPX earlier in the month as the volatility began eating into my gains. At around the same time I sold WSHNX and WCPNX. But they were nice funds when rates were dropping. Pretty much depends on where you think rates are heading from here.
If you're interested in the David Sherman touch, I'ld look at his Crossing Bridge funds before RPHIX. I ended up buying CBLDX, and it has been touch and go. I Still have some cash that might go into CBUDX. Everything else went into VRIG, PULS, and USFR for the time being.
For my short-term bond fund watch list at M* I've added calendar years 2020 and 2022. These days I am ideally looking for positive returns for both years. I'm a nervous bond fund owner.
Comparing RPHYX vs. CBUDX, these 2 funds have very similar returns and SD. The Riverpark fund offers the (RPHIX) institutional class that is ideal for longer-term investors - just pony up the TF.
At 9-30-2024, Fido shows that RPHIX has a 30-day yield of only 4.3%. Seemed kind of low. Weighted ave coupon was 6.3%.
Nice find. It looks like you hit the sweet (or target) spot - high risk relative to ultra short bond funds (of which it is one based on duration), but low risk relative to short term bond funds.
A fund that's somewhat similar in performance and risk to WEFIX is FPNRX. FPA New Income focuses on preservation and then beating cash. I was happy to see it go no-load several years ago. More recently, it added this investor class so that it could be sold NTF. Unlike many NTF funds, New Income retail class adds only 10 basis points of expenses to its institutional class FPNIX. That may make it worth the cost if you buy frequently and/or in small amounts.
You'll find several funds with short durations and higher yields that invest primarily in ABSs. These look good on paper but come with risks that don't manifest too often. But sometimes they do. Check March 2020.
Almost everyone lost money then, but ABS funds tended to lose more. DHEAX is such a fund. Great three year volatility. Less great five year figure. Max drawdown (March-April 2020) was 9.74%. BBBMX was 4.07%, FPNRX was 4.24%, RPHIX was 1.09%. (All from M*)
It depends on what types of risks you're concerned with and how long you're willing to wait for recoveries.
"It depends on what types of risks you're concerned with and how long you're willing to wait for recoveries."
+1
Just an observation -
Is it possible that DHEAX has more unrated stuff that can act weird in a quick flight to safety situation? Not suggesting it is otherwise the same risky as the other two. I would not be surprised if DHEAX overall credit rating is lower.
DHEAX has marginally more securitized stuff than FPNIX now.
I did not know about BBBMX and it looks very good (A+ per M*). I personally am inclined not to buy AA or above stuff (FPNIX) because I do not want to over insure. If I am skipping single A, then I tend to go straight to Treasuries or Agencies. MM are a general exception.
Looking at the chart from DHEAX inception also gets my vote for BBBMX.
Shall I be the contrarian? Seems to me that ultra-low duration only serves to churn the portfolio. BBBMX shows less than a year, effective duration; and for your trouble, you get a 4.74% yield. My considerable holdings in junk offer, on a weighted average basis, a bit more than 7% yield; effective duration in the two OEFs is 2.68 years and 2.49 years. That's still not far at all along the curve. And my chosen funds have been ultra-low in terms of volatility. A nice item to tuck into your pocket.
@Crash - you don't name your two funds here. But the only taxable bond fund with a 2.49 year effective duration (per M* screener) is TUHYX. The only bond funds with a 2.68 effective duration are PRCPX, RNOTX, and MHCAX.
@Crash, I know you are a big proponent on yield. Myself, it's all about total return. And, I'm a graphic trend person. Here is some total return data for 5 of the funds mentioned here. I'll give total accumulative return starting from 2021, 22, 23 and ytd 24.
from 2021 to present: DHEAX +14.9% WCPNX +1.7 RPHIX +16.5% CSOAX 21.2% BBBMX 12.8
I'm certainly not a bond expert, nor do I understand categories and duration very well, but I do understand total return as viewed by graphics. I guess my only point here is a fund's total return is more important that a funds yield. You will also see in the picture in the link below which funds had more volatility getting to the end results.
Comments
The knock against IG floating rate funds is that they don't do as well in falling interest rate environments. Or so I've read. And until this month (Oct) WCPNX was slightly outperforming them YTD, though not now.
A question is what you are looking for. RPHYX/RPHIX may be unique in how it invests. This results in after-expense returns that are extremely steady and IMHO worth the cost. Funds like FLRN and FLOT invest more traditionally and have slightly higher volatility and slightly lower returns. They are still well within the ultra-short duration and volatility ranges.
WCPNX is a traditional short term bond fund. As such, it can get jostled by market disruptions (see, e.g. 2022 and March 2020). The floating rate funds also got hit in March 2020, a market "blip" that affected pretty much everything. They held up nicely in 2022. Also, Schwab imposes a fee if you sell WCPNX within 90 days of purchase.
So WCPNX is a good fund if you're anticipating holding it for awhile (at least a year), but perhaps there are better choices if you are looking very short term.
Be advised that WCPNX changed name and strategy at the end of 2016. It had been Weitz Short-Intermediate Income Fund.
Portfolio Visualizer comparison - RPHIX (benchmark), WEFIX, FLRN, FLOT
RPHIX,FLOT and FLRN make sense.
If you use a chart and use all the funds for YTD, the others have a lot more volatility and not much to show for.
The CLO good uptrend with low SD and short duration still makes sense. See the chart below for CLOZ and others.
https://schrts.co/GpipxmDW
WCPNX. ER = 0.65%
-duration is out to 5.5 years, now. That smells more like intermediate-term.
-risk, looking back 3 years: just 20 out of 100, on their proprietary scale.
-LOW risk, HIGH returns.
-zero in equities.
0.97% in cash. So, fully invested.
Weighted coupon =5.37.
Securitized stuff in portfolio= 56.02% of total.
gummint = 29.21%
corporate = 13.77%
https://www.morningstar.com/funds/xnas/wcpnx/portfolio
I own it, and am growing it. Since I got in several weeks ago, it's been dead. Maybe I should not be so patient, but the sadistics and ratings (not just at Morningstar) look attractive. It fits into the frame of what I've been wanting to initiate in my taxable.
Hopefully this link works. It has examples of a couple low volatility funds the poster was looking for, and a few of multisector/intermediate funds with low volatility trends. My preference is the straightest trend lines available.
https://stockcharts.com/freecharts/perf.php?RPHYX,FLRN,THOPX,CSOIX,ICMUX,WCPNX
Stinky doggy poopies.
https://stockcharts.com/freecharts/perf.php?RPHYX,FLRN,THOPX,CSOIX,ICMUX,WCPNX
Regarding WCPNX: it has held up relatively well for its category, intermediate core plus. This can be attributed in part to its shorter than average duration (for its category). It is not something I would suggest as an alternative for RPHIX and I apologize for the confusion.
You may want to check out DHEAX, a short term bond fund with with an excellent risk/reward profile (SD=2.39%). It's NTF at Fidelity, don't know about Schwab.
Good luck.
That looks like the same fund, but shows a Max. Front Load of 4.75% with a note that says "* This fund is available without load at Schwab." Further info: No Transaction Fee; $49.95 Short-Term (90 days) Redemption Fee.
Are we talking about the same animal here? Thanks...
Correct me if I'm wrong.
If you're interested in the David Sherman touch, I'ld look at his Crossing Bridge funds before RPHIX. I ended up buying CBLDX, and it has been touch and go. I Still have some cash that might go into CBUDX. Everything else went into VRIG, PULS, and USFR for the time being.
For my short-term bond fund watch list at M* I've added calendar years 2020 and 2022. These days I am ideally looking for positive returns for both years. I'm a nervous bond fund owner.
The Riverpark fund offers the (RPHIX) institutional class that is ideal for longer-term investors - just pony up the TF.
At 9-30-2024, Fido shows that RPHIX has a 30-day yield of only 4.3%. Seemed kind of low. Weighted ave coupon was 6.3%.
CBLDX is more volatile, but with more yield.
I modified msf's PV analysis by replacing FLOT with BBBMX below.
PV Analysis
A fund that's somewhat similar in performance and risk to WEFIX is FPNRX. FPA New Income focuses on preservation and then beating cash. I was happy to see it go no-load several years ago. More recently, it added this investor class so that it could be sold NTF. Unlike many NTF funds, New Income retail class adds only 10 basis points of expenses to its institutional class FPNIX. That may make it worth the cost if you buy frequently and/or in small amounts.
You'll find several funds with short durations and higher yields that invest primarily in ABSs. These look good on paper but come with risks that don't manifest too often. But sometimes they do. Check March 2020.
Almost everyone lost money then, but ABS funds tended to lose more. DHEAX is such a fund. Great three year volatility. Less great five year figure. Max drawdown (March-April 2020) was 9.74%. BBBMX was 4.07%, FPNRX was 4.24%, RPHIX was 1.09%. (All from M*)
It depends on what types of risks you're concerned with and how long you're willing to wait for recoveries.
+1
Just an observation -
Is it possible that DHEAX has more unrated stuff that can act weird in a quick flight to safety situation? Not suggesting it is otherwise the same risky as the other two. I would not be surprised if DHEAX overall credit rating is lower.
DHEAX has marginally more securitized stuff than FPNIX now.
I did not know about BBBMX and it looks very good (A+ per M*). I personally am inclined not to buy AA or above stuff (FPNIX) because I do not want to over insure. If I am skipping single A, then I tend to go straight to Treasuries or Agencies. MM are a general exception.
Looking at the chart from DHEAX inception also gets my vote for BBBMX.
Ultra low volatility? Five year figures are:
RPHIX: 1.00
FLRN: 1.98
WEFIX: 2.47
FPNRX: 2.52
BBBMX: 2.56
MHCAX: 8.25
RNOTX: 8.28
PRCPX: 9.28
TUHYX: 10.41
Max drawdowns? Again over five years:
RPHIX: 1.09%
FLRN: 3.31%
WEFIX: 4.34%
FPNRX: 4.24%
BBBMX: 4.07%
MHCAX: 12.62%
RNOTX: 13.58%
PRCPX: 13.98%
TUHYX: 17.60%
How about churn? Current turnover figures are:
MHCAX: 20%
BBBMX: 22%
PRCPX: 36.20%
WEFIX: 37%
FLRN: 40%
FPNRX: 50%
RNOTX: 75%
TUHYX: 87%
RPHIX: 372%
BBBMX looks better and better.
from 2021 to present:
DHEAX +14.9%
WCPNX +1.7
RPHIX +16.5%
CSOAX 21.2%
BBBMX 12.8
2022 to present
DHEAX +12.5%
WCPNX +0.3%
RPHIX +14.2%
CSOAX 15.2%
BBBMX 11.7%
2023 to present
DHEAX +16.4%
WCPNX +10.3%
RPHIX +10.t%
CSOAX 22.1%
BBBMX 12.6%
2024 to present
DHEAX +7.5%
WCPNX +3.4%
RPHIX +4.7%
CSOAX 7.4%
BBBMX 5.3%
I'm certainly not a bond expert, nor do I understand categories and duration very well, but I do understand total return as viewed by graphics. I guess my only point here is a fund's total return is more important that a funds yield. You will also see in the picture in the link below which funds had more volatility getting to the end results.
https://stockcharts.com/freecharts/perf.php?DHEAX,WCPNX,RPHIX,CSOIX,BBBMX