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Three weeks to go before new fees kick in. I'm still debating about closing out Vanguard accounts. I opened them almost exclusively to buy Vanguard funds: low cost actively managed Admiral shares, a Treasury MMF (for yield and tax purposes), a relatively high yielding bank sweep (in lieu of an internet bank).
Unlike many, I can live with Vanguard since I buy and hold except for a cash account which works smoothly. But ... VUSXX is no longer 100% treasuries, one can easily get 1/2% higher on bank deposits, and I'm no longer planning to add to my Vanguard fund holdings.
So I might move if I can find reasonable substitutes for the non-Vanguard fund holdings and I can find not more than two institutions to serve as replacements and they'll offer me a good deal for moving assets there.
Some people have said that they've cut deals with Schwab to waive MF transaction fees. I'd like to know more about that. PM me if you feel that's better.
One post above said that "Schwab is running a promotion for transferring assets from Fidelity. If you are transferring from VG, then you might need a two step process". I can't seem to locate this, though Schwab does have this refer a friend promotion.
E*Trade has good bonuses for really large transfers, but they're only for taxable account transfers. Still, E*Trade offers all trades NTF and several Treasury MMFs including Vanguard's.
Merrill is offering up to $1K (or perhaps even more for large amounts) to transfer accounts according to MyMoneyBlog.
Merrill's handling of MMFs is idiosyncratic at best (sometimes only allowing investments and div reinvestments in whole dollars). But its offerings do include solid 100% Treasury MMFs including FSIXX.
I initiated a transfer (IRA account) from Vanguard to Fidelity on 06/03. Estimated time of completion is 06/10.
I'm undecided whether on not to also transfer my taxable Vanguard account. Fidelity is offering a $1,000 bonus for investors who transfer $1mm or more within a 60 day period.
It was not an easy decision for us on Vanguard after being investors for over 30 years. The company has changed…
As I mentioned on this board, we initiated to move all tax-deferred accounts out to Fidelity. The transfer was completed with 5 days through ACAT, and the cost base information arrived several days later. As of yesterday, we transfer half of our joint account to Fidelity. We decide to keep the other half at Vanguard for the same reasons @msf mentioned above.
I can confirm that Fidelity offers $1,000 per $1M asset transfer to Fidelity after 60 days. They assigned an agent directly to oversee the transfer. The process is straightforward but it is nice touch to have a history with a specific person. And that is something Vanguard lacks. Additionally, we were contact from Fidelity’s financial consultant immediately to offer their service. I hesitated until we are ready to engage with them.
By the way, we have Vanguard managed part of our asset through their Advisory Select service (minimum $500k) as part of an experiment in case I pass away before my wife. We ended that relationships immediately when we decided to move on from Vanguard.
Our recent transfer out of Vangurad to Fido went smoothly in LT a week.
We had an Admiral fund VTMFX transferred to Schwab. I asked our rep, who we have known for years and agreed to wave the purchase fee. We have a pretty big account so that may be one reason why.
Doesn’t hurt to ask. The rep is Schwab’s big advantage. Lack of sweep MMF big big disadvantage
Since then, Fidelity limited its public promotions to $1M+ transfers, and subsequently hid promotions altogether. So Fidelity fell off my radar and I hadn't considered them. I'm now encouraged to check directly with them to see what they might do.
Similarly, I've received enough of a nudge regarding Schwab's willingness to deal that I'll check with them as well. It's a solid firm, one I've used off and on for many years.
Going either way I'm still left with the question of what to do with bank cash and Treasury cash. (I still keep a modest amount of cash in a bank just in case of another liquidity freeze; the latter is to keep state income taxes down.)
I could use an internet bank for FDIC-covered cash (many still paying 5%+), and something like SGOV or USFR for liquid Treasury cash.
Finally, regarding the transfer process, I did read The Finance Buff's piece when it came out. It's a good guide in general for doing transfers even though it contains some Vanguard-specific info. Having moved assets back and forth over the years, I am familiar with the process. In fact, it's Vanguard's adding a new fee to do this that is motivating me to look around.
@msf, when you call Fidelity, you need to speak with their Investment Solution Group to get an agent. One I talked with is knowledgeable on the incentives of moving asset to them. He stated the policy and the follow-up transfer 60 days later. Make sure you request his/her contact information. He sent an email with his phone number and extension, so you can keep track of the transfer and your incentives.
We have had accounts with Schwab but that was a long time ago. Three more weeks to go before July 1st. Good luck.
P.S. over this weekend, we will consider to transfer the remaining Vanguard mutual funds in our joint account. Since I can buy the ETF equivalents, I can continue to add. The rest i will sell in the future without incurring fees at Fidelity. Can’t exactly do that at Schwab.
"The rest i will sell in the future without incurring fees at Fidelity. Can’t exactly do that at Schwab."
Try finding earlier posts re Schwab fees on mutual funds transferred to Schwab. As of a couple of weeks ago, Schwab did not impose its own STR fees on mutual funds that you did not buy at Schwab.
over this weekend, we will consider to transfer the remaining Vanguard mutual funds in our joint account. Since I can buy the ETF equivalents,
Generally at Vanguard if there's an "equivalent" ETF for a fund, the ETF is just another share class of the same fund. The same way that Admiral shares and Investor shares are just difference share classes of the same fund.
For example, VOO (ETF), VFIAX (Admiral class), and VFINX (Investor class) are just three different share classes of Vanguard 500.
You can have Vanguard convert your OEF shares into ETF shares of the same fund with no tax consequences before transferring assets. This can usually be done by other brokerages after a transfer, but one needs to make sure the brokerage does it "right" - not via a buy and a sell.
Fido was wife's 401k custodian so most of her retirement money is there.
Our joint taxable account we started in 1988 at Schwab when we had an advisor for mutual funds. He used Littman-Gregory " No Load Fund Analyst" ( anybody else remember them?) so I finally decided I could do it myself with the newsletter. Then they stopped the newsletter and I didn't think it was worth a 0.7% fee on top of MF fees. Fortunately Fund Alarm was available.
While the advisors at Schwab changed frequently in the past, they have been stable the last 10 years. I can email the guy we have and he responds quickly.
I don't use them for investment advice but they are helpful with paperwork etc. I did explore their financial planning but decided I could do just as well with investments for now.
We never really connected to someone at Fido. I gave them a chance last year to demonstrate their ideas about financial planning and they kinda blew it. The rep didn't seem interested in following up and all they offered was Fido mutual funds.
I gave Vanguard a chance too, but they said they would ignore all of our existing low cost basis stocks so I though that was a no go.
I am sorta in the "paranoid" level of account security ( like Andy Grove) and I think having about a 50/50 split in brokerages is not a bad idea.
If they have good analytics, I have missed them, so I use M* and Quicken and a lot of the stuff people use here.
I gave Vanguard a chance too, but they said they would ignore all of our existing low cost basis stocks so I though that was a no go.
Years ago I suggested to a friend what became Vanguard Personal Advisor Select. (At the time there was only one tier, with a $50K min.)
Vanguard was good about preserving investments with large gains and only selling them off gradually over several years. It was a pleasant contrast to TIAA, where this person had watched as an "advisor" immediately sold off everything at the start.
TIAA compounded the problem later by harvesting a loss in a taxable account while purchasing the same security in an IRA - thus generating a wash sale and permanently destroying the ability to declare the harvested loss.
On the tax front, Vanguard seems to be doing okay. Someone else I know with them was told that an account had recently crossed the designated allocation ranges and Vanguard could rebalance. Given that this was in a taxable account and rebalancing would recognize gains, Vanguard provided the option of rebalancing or not.
Maybe you just got hold of an inexperienced person at Vanguard or someone who was having a bad day.
@sma3, thank you for sharing your experience with Schwab, Fidelity, and Vanguard brokerages. I think it is a crapshoot of which agents you deal with and that set the tone on whether that firm works for you or not. These days there are high turnovers in the financial business. Planners I talk with have less than 10 years of experience. We are working on Plan B so that my wife can handle the finance without advisors when I pass on.
Like you I also subscribed to "No Load Fund Analyst" for a number of years until they retired that business. Rather than using an advisor early on, we spent time learning about asset allocation from William Bernstein's books. NLFA became the tool to implement the target allocation in our portfolio and the value of active management. This process has proven invaluable as we survived the severe drawdowns during the dotcom and GFC crisis, and we became more informed investors and asking the right questions.
We have been DIY investors ever since. Until last year I explored using financial advisors to manage part of our portfolio. Vanguard is reasonable with 0.3% fee but the choices are limited to Vanguard products only. Think that is the same with most brokerages. This experiment ended as we moved on from Vanguard.
Fidelity offers their advisory services and I will talk with them to better understand their capabilities now that I had experience with Vanguard.
Worth talking to Lynnbolin2021 who uses both Vanguard and Fido advisors I think.
The Vanguard guy did not seem inexperienced on the phone, but clearly said they would not take any of our legacy positions into account when managing our money. Most is in Berkshire.So we would have had to sort do mental arithmetic to account for it
Fido, as I mentioned, seemed to offer little for the fee
Schwab farmed it out to a large independent firm ( Wealth Management Group) whose financial planning seemed comprehensive and pretty good. They reviewed our wills and caught significant typo our lawyer had missed, for example.
The portfolio was individual stocks with bond mutual funds. They had a plan to slowly sell positions they felt were not useful.
The portfolios resembled SCHD and SCHG, but hey had a tighter screen for a few parameters. It was unclear how flexible they were with their portfolios and if they changed dramatically. SCHD is a very cheap fund and only lost 3% in 202 but since has done little. My "Deep value" advisor is morevolitle but has beaten it by a mile.
All in all I was impressed but since I am still Compos Mentus, decided I could wait to switch. For someone who needs help, unless you go "All Bernstein" it is not a bad choice.
@msf, thanks for the reminder of the share class of Vanguard funds and ETFs. We use the mutual funds solely for monthly investment. Lately we have been using ETFs instead. I need to learn more the conversation process even though there is not a tax consequence.
Harry Sit has a detailed write up on the transfer that I am about to do.
Am transferring full Vanguard accounts to Fidelity, and will then transfer Vanguard funds (major part of those accounts) to Schwab for bonus and some TF waivers (notably Vanguard funds).
Am making smaller transfers from Fidelity to Merrill to pick up some bonus money there.
Am thinking about transferring Vanguard Cash Plus account (VUSXX and bank sweep) to Merrill for bonus and access to institutional class shares of 3rd party Treasury MMFs.
Transfer orders were submitted online at Fidelity (transfer from Vanguard) and at Merrill (transfer from Fidelity). Expect to do the same with transfer to Schwab. No need for paper, no medallion guarantees requested. Efficient transfers taking a week or less.
Very different from working with T. Rowe Price where I had to mail in paper and where I had to negotiate their waiving the medallion guarantee requirement.
Merrill orders showed up at Fidelity (under "activity") within hours of submission. Still waiting for actual assets to show up at Merrill (should be tomorrow - one week from submission).
With the Fidelity orders, actual assets from Vanguard showed up at Fidelity about 3 days after submission. But it took another day for them to disappear from Vanguard!
I recently transferred my Vanguard Roth IRA to Fidelity. A Fidelity rep opened a new Fidelity Roth IRA account for me and initiated the transfer. I could have easily done this myself but the Fidelity rep offered his assistance. The transfer proceeded smoothly and processing completed in 3 or 4 business days. I'm now considering transferring my Vanguard taxable account to either Fidelity or Schwab. Besides Schwab's bonus and TF waivers, what other factors influenced your decision to select Schwab?
The only reason that I originally opened a separate account at Vanguard was to have access to Vanguard funds. Switching to Schwab or any new institution doesn't add to the number of places I'm dealing with, so I'm more open to Schwab than I would be if I were simply adding them as another brokerage I'm using.
I've used Schwab off and on for decades. I consider it a solid competitor to Fidelity. A few years ago I moved my Schwab holdings to Fidelity simply to consolidate.
Schwab offers some funds that one can't get at Fidelity (and vice versa). I might not take advantage of this as I recently went through a second major portfolio overhaul to get down to fewer funds. But having easy access to some more potential replacements might help me prune further.
It really does come down to Schwab having made me an offer I couldn't refuse. In the past I've tried to negotiate any giveback from Fidelity with no success. And now, while Fidelity talked about how they have superior service, so much to offer, etc., they didn't put anything on the table. No harm in taking Schwab up on its offer; especially if I limit the holdings to Roths which entail no bookkeeping now or once I reach RMD age since Roths have no RMDs.
I've been using Fidelity's bill pay for years and it has good paying taxable MMFs. Like Schwab, it provides ATM access with rebates worldwide and without foreign transaction fees. I would not use Schwab for cash, ever. (Well, when it originally opened Schwab bank, its high yielding account really was high yielding, but that was eons ago.)
Vanguard continues to impress - but not in a good way.
Tried to move our money out of our Cash Plus account. Sold VUSXX yesterday, settled today. All money now in bank sweep within Cash Plus and listed as available for withdrawal. Withdrawal failed:
Sorry, something went wrong.
The shares you’re trying to redeem were recently purchased. To protect your account, we can send the proceeds from the sale of those shares only to the institution and account from which they originated.
I'm trying to redeem cash, not shares. Besides, the VUSXX shares that I succesfully redeemed were purchased months ago and I'm trying to send the cash back to where it originated.
Called Vanguard. Instead of moving the available cash out of Vanguard, rep says to use a workaround. Open another Vanguard account, transfer the cash into there, and wait for the transfer to settle (on Monday).
I try to open the other account. First question: where will the money come from (bank, inherited account, etc.)? No option for "from Vanguard". So instead rep fills out the form for me to review and sign.
Bottom line - it's going to be several days between my selling VUSXX my seeing the cash in an external account. Perhaps longer if I have to keep accounts open until end of month for trailing interest. And Vanguard is going to start charging people for calling them!
I had VUSXX and a little cash (bank sweep) in the Cash Plus account.
Vanguard actually credited me with the part-month (June) divs from VUSXX when I closed the position. I didn't know that at first because it didn't report the div transaction until late Friday (liquidation was Thurs).
Have yet to receive part-month interest on bank sweep, but that's only about $3. Vanguard can keep that as my parting gift.
Transfer of assets into newly opened Vanguard brokerage account went smoothly on Friday. Saturday morning, Vanguard reported cash was available for withdrawal (I'd been told that would happen today, Monday).
I requested ACH transfer out on Saturday. System response: order will be processed by close of next business day (Monday). But order status page showed ACH transfer settlement on Saturday (wrong).
Around 3:30 this afternoon (Monday) cash showed up in external account. Yea! Vanguard website still shows this transfer "in process".
In other transfer news ...
Opened a Merrill CMA account (bonus, good Treasury MMFs). Submitted ACATS transfer request for partial transfer from Fidelity. Fidelity notified me by email 2 hours later that it had received the request. I expect completion by end of week or early next week.
Transfer of IRA assets to Schwab is complete. Received email message saying that I had qualified for bonus. Received second email saying that my accounts were tagged with TF waivers for some fund families as promised.
Bottom line: Fidelity, Schwab, Merrill all handled transfers quickly and accurately. Vanguard, not so much. Notifications by Schwab and Fidelity were excellent.
Anyone else having trouble logging into the Vanguard website this morning (around 9:30 am eastern time)? Clicking on the login button eventually leads to a cryptic error message.
Yes, also had a transient problem earlier this morning.
Once logged in, my Vanguard saga continued ...
Interest (< $10) from Cash Plus account was credited yesterday (Mon) but didn't appear until today. Website said I could withdraw the cash. But I could not transfer it to an external account (same stupid error message as before - about having purchased "shares" too recently). Instead, I "withdrew" it to the new Vanguard brokerage account.
That balance shows as able to trade but not withdraw. Will withdraw tomorrow and call Vanguard to close accounts.
Jeff Demaso commented on the Tuesday morning Vanguard outage.
"Judging by my inbox and Downdetector, Vanguard’s website and app stopped functioning on Tuesday morning."
"We all make mistakes, but Vanguard’s technology and service snafus have become the firm’s Achilles heel. What’s remarkable is that Vanguard continues to ignore their failings, making statements about their improvements like this:
In recent years, Vanguard has intentionally and strategically invested in modernizing our digital pathways – including our website and the Vanguard mobile app – as part of our commitment to providing a world-class experience for our clients. We encourage our investors to web register and utilize Vanguard digital channels for an efficient, effective, and secure client experience."
"Salim Ramji will become Vanguard’s CEO on July 8. I hope he has “fix our technology and service” at the top of his to-do list."
Even when the technology works, it doesn't make sense.
I tried to close our IRAs (empty accounts), but the system refused. Rep finally found that system supposedly waits 14 days after account is zeroed, and then automatically closes it. This is to ensure that all transfers settle. So the story goes.
But, I'm able to close my taxable accounts online, even the one I emptied out yesterday (cash transfer). And other empty Vanguard accounts (a taxable brokerage account and legacy platform IRA accounts) stayed open for months until I closed them recently myself.
I'm one of the few people who didn't complain about Vanguard's rigid rules. But those rules have to be published and make some sort of sense. How Vanguard is handling account closures is not documented and is superficially loony.
Finally, there is the possibility (remote, I hope) that I'll still get charged for closing the empty IRAs if/when they automatically close in July:
"Vanguard Brokerage may charge a $100 processing fee for account closure or the transfer of account assets to another firm"
@msf, there is the possibility (remote, I hope) that I'll still get charged for closing the empty IRAs if/when they automatically close in July: Let us pray NOT !!
Vanguard automatically closed my final account on Friday, June 28 (less than 14 days before I zeroed out the account), so I won't get charged a fee.
However, on Saturday, June 29, Vanguard sent me a cryptic note saying only that "Your transfer has been cancelled." Since all the transfers had completed successfully, I had no idea what this was. Neither did Vanguard when I called them today.
To add insult to injury, the "contact us" URL in the email was: hhttps://support.vanguard.com/ (note the double 'h')
Comments
Unlike many, I can live with Vanguard since I buy and hold except for a cash account which works smoothly. But ... VUSXX is no longer 100% treasuries, one can easily get 1/2% higher on bank deposits, and I'm no longer planning to add to my Vanguard fund holdings.
So I might move if I can find reasonable substitutes for the non-Vanguard fund holdings and I can find not more than two institutions to serve as replacements and they'll offer me a good deal for moving assets there.
Some people have said that they've cut deals with Schwab to waive MF transaction fees. I'd like to know more about that. PM me if you feel that's better.
One post above said that "Schwab is running a promotion for transferring assets from Fidelity. If you are transferring from VG, then you might need a two step process". I can't seem to locate this, though Schwab does have this refer a friend promotion.
E*Trade has good bonuses for really large transfers, but they're only for taxable account transfers. Still, E*Trade offers all trades NTF and several Treasury MMFs including Vanguard's.
Merrill is offering up to $1K (or perhaps even more for large amounts) to transfer accounts according to MyMoneyBlog.
Merrill's handling of MMFs is idiosyncratic at best (sometimes only allowing investments and div reinvestments in whole dollars). But its offerings do include solid 100% Treasury MMFs including FSIXX.
That's a very short list. Other suggestions?
I initiated a transfer (IRA account) from Vanguard to Fidelity on 06/03.
Estimated time of completion is 06/10.
I'm undecided whether on not to also transfer my taxable Vanguard account.
Fidelity is offering a $1,000 bonus for investors who transfer $1mm or more within a 60 day period.
You may already be aware of this recent article by Harry Sit (The Finance Buff)
regarding transferring assets from Vanguard.
https://thefinancebuff.com/steps-before-transfer-from-vanguard.html
As I mentioned on this board, we initiated to move all tax-deferred accounts out to Fidelity. The transfer was completed with 5 days through ACAT, and the cost base information arrived several days later. As of yesterday, we transfer half of our joint account to Fidelity. We decide to keep the other half at Vanguard for the same reasons @msf mentioned above.
I can confirm that Fidelity offers $1,000 per $1M asset transfer to Fidelity after 60 days. They assigned an agent directly to oversee the transfer. The process is straightforward but it is nice touch to have a history with a specific person. And that is something Vanguard lacks. Additionally, we were contact from Fidelity’s financial consultant immediately to offer their service. I hesitated until we are ready to engage with them.
By the way, we have Vanguard managed part of our asset through their Advisory Select service (minimum $500k) as part of an experiment in case I pass away before my wife. We ended that relationships immediately when we decided to move on from Vanguard.
We had an Admiral fund VTMFX transferred to Schwab. I asked our rep, who we have known for years and agreed to wave the purchase fee. We have a pretty big account so that may be one reason why.
Doesn’t hurt to ask. The rep is Schwab’s big advantage. Lack of sweep MMF big big disadvantage
https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/fidelity/Cash-Offer.pdf
Since then, Fidelity limited its public promotions to $1M+ transfers, and subsequently hid promotions altogether. So Fidelity fell off my radar and I hadn't considered them. I'm now encouraged to check directly with them to see what they might do.
Similarly, I've received enough of a nudge regarding Schwab's willingness to deal that I'll check with them as well. It's a solid firm, one I've used off and on for many years.
Going either way I'm still left with the question of what to do with bank cash and Treasury cash. (I still keep a modest amount of cash in a bank just in case of another liquidity freeze; the latter is to keep state income taxes down.)
I could use an internet bank for FDIC-covered cash (many still paying 5%+), and something like SGOV or USFR for liquid Treasury cash.
Finally, regarding the transfer process, I did read The Finance Buff's piece when it came out. It's a good guide in general for doing transfers even though it contains some Vanguard-specific info. Having moved assets back and forth over the years, I am familiar with the process. In fact, it's Vanguard's adding a new fee to do this that is motivating me to look around.
Again, thanks.
We have had accounts with Schwab but that was a long time ago. Three more weeks to go before July 1st. Good luck.
P.S. over this weekend, we will consider to transfer the remaining Vanguard mutual funds in our joint account. Since I can buy the ETF equivalents, I can continue to add. The rest i will sell in the future without incurring fees at Fidelity. Can’t exactly do that at Schwab.
Try finding earlier posts re Schwab fees on mutual funds transferred to Schwab. As of a couple of weeks ago, Schwab did not impose its own STR fees on mutual funds that you did not buy at Schwab.
Generally at Vanguard if there's an "equivalent" ETF for a fund, the ETF is just another share class of the same fund. The same way that Admiral shares and Investor shares are just difference share classes of the same fund.
For example, VOO (ETF), VFIAX (Admiral class), and VFINX (Investor class) are just three different share classes of Vanguard 500.
You can have Vanguard convert your OEF shares into ETF shares of the same fund with no tax consequences before transferring assets. This can usually be done by other brokerages after a transfer, but one needs to make sure the brokerage does it "right" - not via a buy and a sell.
Fido was wife's 401k custodian so most of her retirement money is there.
Our joint taxable account we started in 1988 at Schwab when we had an advisor for mutual funds. He used Littman-Gregory " No Load Fund Analyst" ( anybody else remember them?) so I finally decided I could do it myself with the newsletter. Then they stopped the newsletter and I didn't think it was worth a 0.7% fee on top of MF fees. Fortunately Fund Alarm was available.
While the advisors at Schwab changed frequently in the past, they have been stable the last 10 years. I can email the guy we have and he responds quickly.
I don't use them for investment advice but they are helpful with paperwork etc. I did explore their financial planning but decided I could do just as well with investments for now.
We never really connected to someone at Fido. I gave them a chance last year to demonstrate their ideas about financial planning and they kinda blew it. The rep didn't seem interested in following up and all they offered was Fido mutual funds.
I gave Vanguard a chance too, but they said they would ignore all of our existing low cost basis stocks so I though that was a no go.
I am sorta in the "paranoid" level of account security ( like Andy Grove) and I think having about a 50/50 split in brokerages is not a bad idea.
If they have good analytics, I have missed them, so I use M* and Quicken and a lot of the stuff people use here.
Years ago I suggested to a friend what became Vanguard Personal Advisor Select. (At the time there was only one tier, with a $50K min.)
Vanguard was good about preserving investments with large gains and only selling them off gradually over several years. It was a pleasant contrast to TIAA, where this person had watched as an "advisor" immediately sold off everything at the start.
TIAA compounded the problem later by harvesting a loss in a taxable account while purchasing the same security in an IRA - thus generating a wash sale and permanently destroying the ability to declare the harvested loss.
On the tax front, Vanguard seems to be doing okay. Someone else I know with them was told that an account had recently crossed the designated allocation ranges and Vanguard could rebalance. Given that this was in a taxable account and rebalancing would recognize gains, Vanguard provided the option of rebalancing or not.
Maybe you just got hold of an inexperienced person at Vanguard or someone who was having a bad day.
Like you I also subscribed to "No Load Fund Analyst" for a number of years until they retired that business. Rather than using an advisor early on, we spent time learning about asset allocation from William Bernstein's books. NLFA became the tool to implement the target allocation in our portfolio and the value of active management. This process has proven invaluable as we survived the severe drawdowns during the dotcom and GFC crisis, and we became more informed investors and asking the right questions.
We have been DIY investors ever since. Until last year I explored using financial advisors to manage part of our portfolio. Vanguard is reasonable with 0.3% fee but the choices are limited to Vanguard products only. Think that is the same with most brokerages. This experiment ended as we moved on from Vanguard.
Fidelity offers their advisory services and I will talk with them to better understand their capabilities now that I had experience with Vanguard.
Worth talking to Lynnbolin2021 who uses both Vanguard and Fido advisors I think.
The Vanguard guy did not seem inexperienced on the phone, but clearly said they would not take any of our legacy positions into account when managing our money. Most is in Berkshire.So we would have had to sort do mental arithmetic to account for it
Fido, as I mentioned, seemed to offer little for the fee
Schwab farmed it out to a large independent firm ( Wealth Management Group) whose financial planning seemed comprehensive and pretty good. They reviewed our wills and caught significant typo our lawyer had missed, for example.
The portfolio was individual stocks with bond mutual funds. They had a plan to slowly sell positions they felt were not useful.
The portfolios resembled SCHD and SCHG, but hey had a tighter screen for a few parameters. It was unclear how flexible they were with their portfolios and if they changed dramatically. SCHD is a very cheap fund and only lost 3% in 202 but since has done little. My "Deep value" advisor is morevolitle but has beaten it by a mile.
All in all I was impressed but since I am still Compos Mentus, decided I could wait to switch. For someone who needs help, unless you go "All Bernstein" it is not a bad choice.
Harry Sit has a detailed write up on the transfer that I am about to do.
Am transferring full Vanguard accounts to Fidelity, and will then transfer Vanguard funds (major part of those accounts) to Schwab for bonus and some TF waivers (notably Vanguard funds).
Am making smaller transfers from Fidelity to Merrill to pick up some bonus money there.
Am thinking about transferring Vanguard Cash Plus account (VUSXX and bank sweep) to Merrill for bonus and access to institutional class shares of 3rd party Treasury MMFs.
Transfer orders were submitted online at Fidelity (transfer from Vanguard) and at Merrill (transfer from Fidelity). Expect to do the same with transfer to Schwab. No need for paper, no medallion guarantees requested. Efficient transfers taking a week or less.
Very different from working with T. Rowe Price where I had to mail in paper and where I had to negotiate their waiving the medallion guarantee requirement.
Merrill orders showed up at Fidelity (under "activity") within hours of submission. Still waiting for actual assets to show up at Merrill (should be tomorrow - one week from submission).
With the Fidelity orders, actual assets from Vanguard showed up at Fidelity about 3 days after submission. But it took another day for them to disappear from Vanguard!
I recently transferred my Vanguard Roth IRA to Fidelity.
A Fidelity rep opened a new Fidelity Roth IRA account for me and initiated the transfer.
I could have easily done this myself but the Fidelity rep offered his assistance.
The transfer proceeded smoothly and processing completed in 3 or 4 business days.
I'm now considering transferring my Vanguard taxable account to either Fidelity or Schwab.
Besides Schwab's bonus and TF waivers, what other factors influenced your decision to select Schwab?
I've used Schwab off and on for decades. I consider it a solid competitor to Fidelity. A few years ago I moved my Schwab holdings to Fidelity simply to consolidate.
Schwab offers some funds that one can't get at Fidelity (and vice versa). I might not take advantage of this as I recently went through a second major portfolio overhaul to get down to fewer funds. But having easy access to some more potential replacements might help me prune further.
It really does come down to Schwab having made me an offer I couldn't refuse. In the past I've tried to negotiate any giveback from Fidelity with no success. And now, while Fidelity talked about how they have superior service, so much to offer, etc., they didn't put anything on the table. No harm in taking Schwab up on its offer; especially if I limit the holdings to Roths which entail no bookkeeping now or once I reach RMD age since Roths have no RMDs.
I've been using Fidelity's bill pay for years and it has good paying taxable MMFs. Like Schwab, it provides ATM access with rebates worldwide and without foreign transaction fees. I would not use Schwab for cash, ever. (Well, when it originally opened Schwab bank, its high yielding account really was high yielding, but that was eons ago.)
Tried to move our money out of our Cash Plus account. Sold VUSXX yesterday, settled today. All money now in bank sweep within Cash Plus and listed as available for withdrawal. Withdrawal failed: I'm trying to redeem cash, not shares. Besides, the VUSXX shares that I succesfully redeemed were purchased months ago and I'm trying to send the cash back to where it originated.
Called Vanguard. Instead of moving the available cash out of Vanguard, rep says to use a workaround. Open another Vanguard account, transfer the cash into there, and wait for the transfer to settle (on Monday).
I try to open the other account. First question: where will the money come from (bank, inherited account, etc.)? No option for "from Vanguard". So instead rep fills out the form for me to review and sign.
Bottom line - it's going to be several days between my selling VUSXX my seeing the cash in an external account. Perhaps longer if I have to keep accounts open until end of month for trailing interest. And Vanguard is going to start charging people for calling them!
I would be livid, too. Is Jack Bogle spinning these days?
Answer: yes.
Vanguard actually credited me with the part-month (June) divs from VUSXX when I closed the position. I didn't know that at first because it didn't report the div transaction until late Friday (liquidation was Thurs).
Have yet to receive part-month interest on bank sweep, but that's only about $3. Vanguard can keep that as my parting gift.
Transfer of assets into newly opened Vanguard brokerage account went smoothly on Friday. Saturday morning, Vanguard reported cash was available for withdrawal (I'd been told that would happen today, Monday).
I requested ACH transfer out on Saturday. System response: order will be processed by close of next business day (Monday). But order status page showed ACH transfer settlement on Saturday (wrong).
Around 3:30 this afternoon (Monday) cash showed up in external account. Yea!
Vanguard website still shows this transfer "in process".
In other transfer news ...
Opened a Merrill CMA account (bonus, good Treasury MMFs). Submitted ACATS transfer request for partial transfer from Fidelity. Fidelity notified me by email 2 hours later that it had received the request. I expect completion by end of week or early next week.
Transfer of IRA assets to Schwab is complete. Received email message saying that I had qualified for bonus. Received second email saying that my accounts were tagged with TF waivers for some fund families as promised.
Bottom line: Fidelity, Schwab, Merrill all handled transfers quickly and accurately. Vanguard, not so much. Notifications by Schwab and Fidelity were excellent.
Once logged in, my Vanguard saga continued ...
Interest (< $10) from Cash Plus account was credited yesterday (Mon) but didn't appear until today. Website said I could withdraw the cash. But I could not transfer it to an external account (same stupid error message as before - about having purchased "shares" too recently). Instead, I "withdrew" it to the new Vanguard brokerage account.
That balance shows as able to trade but not withdraw. Will withdraw tomorrow and call Vanguard to close accounts.
"Judging by my inbox and Downdetector, Vanguard’s website and app stopped functioning on Tuesday morning."
"We all make mistakes, but Vanguard’s technology and service snafus have become the firm’s Achilles heel. What’s remarkable is that Vanguard continues to ignore their failings, making statements about their improvements like this:
In recent years, Vanguard has intentionally and strategically invested in modernizing our digital pathways – including our website and the Vanguard mobile app – as part of our commitment to providing a world-class experience for our clients. We encourage our investors to web register and utilize Vanguard digital channels for an efficient, effective, and secure client experience."
"Salim Ramji will become Vanguard’s CEO on July 8. I hope he has “fix our technology and service” at the top of his to-do list."
https://www.independentvanguardadviser.com/a-glimpse-of-the-next-cycle
I tried to close our IRAs (empty accounts), but the system refused. Rep finally found that system supposedly waits 14 days after account is zeroed, and then automatically closes it. This is to ensure that all transfers settle. So the story goes.
But, I'm able to close my taxable accounts online, even the one I emptied out yesterday (cash transfer). And other empty Vanguard accounts (a taxable brokerage account and legacy platform IRA accounts) stayed open for months until I closed them recently myself.
I'm one of the few people who didn't complain about Vanguard's rigid rules. But those rules have to be published and make some sort of sense. How Vanguard is handling account closures is not documented and is superficially loony.
Finally, there is the possibility (remote, I hope) that I'll still get charged for closing the empty IRAs if/when they automatically close in July:
"Vanguard Brokerage may charge a $100 processing fee for account closure or the transfer of account assets to another firm"
https://personal1.vanguard.com/pdf/v414.pdf
However, on Saturday, June 29, Vanguard sent me a cryptic note saying only that "Your transfer has been cancelled." Since all the transfers had completed successfully, I had no idea what this was. Neither did Vanguard when I called them today.
To add insult to injury, the "contact us" URL in the email was:
hhttps://support.vanguard.com/ (note the double 'h')