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I believe you could have let this post stand. National secrets are a most serious circumstance. Hopefully, even some of the 'other patriots' might consider this serious. When I was accepted into a special electronics area of the Air Force (4 years), my time frame started with a secret clearance and moved to top secret/crypto within a few months. Prior to my formal assignment, an additional restrictive access of R-4 was added. This is a different classification today, but still exists. Four or six us within a group of 30 had this clearance. We were allowed to work in areas without having someone hold our hand and follow us around. This area involved SE Asia information (Vietnam era), including detailed maps on the walls of recent or current spy plane routes. During the period of my background check(s), my immediate family, other relatives and neighbors wondered what the hell was taking place with FBI interviews. One fellow who was in a training group several months before me, had to wait an additional 4 months for full clearances before his assignment, as two generations prior, his family had immigrated to the U.S. from Poland. At the time, Poland was in Soviet control. The concern being that he had aunts, uncles and cousins still in Poland and that he could be coerced into providing information from having these distant family members being held hostage. Anyway, what is taking place now with the former POTUS is most serious. Protecting secrets is very high on my moral list.
ADD: Post Air Force (1971) I worked for a DoD contractor performing this same work at Kwajalein.
I’m glad somebody “picked-up” on my somewhat intentional “delete.” Honestly, at this point after all that’s already been said we’re left “shouting into the wind.” Nothing left to be said that will enlighten anyone. Positions are hardened.
Folks are welcome to continue this thread or start their own. I respect their decision. Please realize I’m not apathetic. Keep well abreast of the issue thru media. Just don’t feel it’s worth the effort and emotional drain on our special forum here to pursue this. To stoop to the level of the opposition thru verbal combat would be to lower ourselves to their level. Let dignity reign.
@catch22 - Thank you for the colorful personal reminiscence. I don’t think anyone doubts the seriousness of this issue.
I agree to your point, too, hank. Many of us have grown tired of this person who continues to cause too much grief. Perhaps this will be the final straw, one way or another as to the future of this country and impacts globally.
This thread may be setting a record for replies to a deleted post!
Yes, i think it’s called “plausible deniability”.
LB’s excerpt isn’t far removed from the kinds of veiled threats against officials I’ve heard at public meetings in Michigan. It’s always “I have lots of friends who aren’t going to like what you’re doing … or proposing. I’ll make sure they all know who you are and where you live.” It’s always veiled as “they” - not “me”. County sheriffs are popularity elected and overwhelming Republican in the outlying regions of the state. So you’re not going to get any help from local law enforcement.
I still think it’s counterproductive, and to some extent self defeating, to regurgitate and give wings to this type of nonsense. It is what it is. I’d make teaching civics / government / history mandatory in schools. Would help some. Even then, you’d be met with right-wing attempts to alter or abolish the curriculum. Their idea of “balance” might be to treat Hitler, Mussolini, Churchill and FDR as “equals”.
Different viewpoints as I think saying "it is what it is" and ignoring the situation is tacit approval or, at least, denial of problems that need to be addressed. Nor do I think there is anything veiled about the threats at this point. Some of these folks should be arrested.
From the article:
The language used by some right-wing media figures was more stark.
On Pete Santilli’s talk show, the conservative provocateur declared that if he were the commandant of the Marine Corps, he would order “every single Marine” to grab President Biden, “throw him in freakin’ zip ties in the back of a freakin’ pickup truck,” and “get him out of the White House.”
One of his guests, Lance Migliaccio, said that if it were legal and he had access, he would “probably walk in and shoot” Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and someone Mr. Trump has identified as one of his enemies....
....The recent bout of warlike language coming in response to Mr. Trump’s indictment echoed what took place among Republican officials and media figures last summer after the F.B.I. searched Mar-a-Lago, Mr. Trump’s private club and residence in Florida, as part of the documents investigation and hauled away about 100 classified records.
“This. Means. War,” The Gateway Pundit, a pro-Trump outlet wrote at the time, setting the tone for others. Hours later, Joe Kent, a Trump-endorsed House candidate in Washington State, went on a podcast run by Stephen K. Bannon, Mr. Trump’s onetime political adviser, and declared, “This just shows everyone what many of us have been saying for a very long time. We’re at war.”
Indeed, within days of the heated language that followed the search of Mar-a-Lago, an Ohio man armed with a semiautomatic rifle tried to breach the F.B.I. field office near Cincinnati and wound up killed in a shootout with the local police.
Simply ignoring this behavior reminds me of the poem:
First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me
So you think posting it on this forum is going to help stop it - or slow the spread?
Wanna buy a bridge?
I hope I haven’t said to “ignore” criminal threats against public officials or not to pursue criminal justice thru established channels. My point is that threats gain traction when they are repeated. They don’t go away. The forum is largely anonymous and so you will destroy that which you seek to preserve by drawing from the woodwork the viscous opponents of free speech and fair play. Different from a public proceeding or Court of Juristiction.
If it can make people better investors, it can also make them better more engaged citizens. I’m not sure either proposition is true by the way. But accepting that the worst are full of passionate intensity and the best lack all conviction seems, well, unacceptable to me, too.
If it can make people better investors, it can also make them better more engaged citizens. I’m not sure either proposition is true by the way. But accepting that the worst are full of passionate intensity and the best lack all conviction seems, well, unacceptable to me, too.
Well said. And thank you @LewisBrahm for contributing to my deleted thread.
May I suggest to others that there are more effective ways of combating these attacks on democracy: … by attending public meetings, voting, contributing to candidates and causes that promote democratic values along with PBS, and by subscribing to publications like the NYT, The WP, The New Yorker, all of which attempt to counter fake-news with substantive reporting and / or commentary. I’ve never, on the other hand, found shouting across the backyard fence at my neighbor to be very effective.
"Nor do I think there is anything veiled about the threats at this point. Some of these folks should be arrested."
I'd like anyone to show me anything coming from the "liberal" side remotely equivalent to this obvious threat from our Republican "friends":
Kari Lake, who was defeated in last year's Arizona governor's race, commented: "I have a message tonight for Merrick Garland and Jack Smith and Joe Biden and the guys back there in the fake news media, you should listen up as well, this one's for you.
"If you want to get to President Trump you're going to have to go through me, and you're going to have to go through 75 million Americans just like me. And I'm going to tell you, most of us are card carrying members of the NRA. That's not a threat, that's a public service announcement, " she said, referring to the 74.2 million Americans who voted for Trump in 2020.
Comments
When I was accepted into a special electronics area of the Air Force (4 years), my time frame started with a secret clearance and moved to top secret/crypto within a few months. Prior to my formal assignment, an additional restrictive access of R-4 was added. This is a different classification today, but still exists. Four or six us within a group of 30 had this clearance. We were allowed to work in areas without having someone hold our hand and follow us around. This area involved SE Asia information (Vietnam era), including detailed maps on the walls of recent or current spy plane routes.
During the period of my background check(s), my immediate family, other relatives and neighbors wondered what the hell was taking place with FBI interviews. One fellow who was in a training group several months before me, had to wait an additional 4 months for full clearances before his assignment, as two generations prior, his family had immigrated to the U.S. from Poland. At the time, Poland was in Soviet control. The concern being that he had aunts, uncles and cousins still in Poland and that he could be coerced into providing information from having these distant family members being held hostage.
Anyway, what is taking place now with the former POTUS is most serious. Protecting secrets is very high on my moral list.
ADD: Post Air Force (1971) I worked for a DoD contractor performing this same work at Kwajalein.
Folks are welcome to continue this thread or start their own. I respect their decision. Please realize I’m not apathetic. Keep well abreast of the issue thru media. Just don’t feel it’s worth the effort and emotional drain on our special forum here to pursue this. To stoop to the level of the opposition thru verbal combat would be to lower ourselves to their level. Let dignity reign.
@catch22 - Thank you for the colorful personal reminiscence. I don’t think anyone doubts the seriousness of this issue.
LB’s excerpt isn’t far removed from the kinds of veiled threats against officials I’ve heard at public meetings in Michigan. It’s always “I have lots of friends who aren’t going to like what you’re doing … or proposing. I’ll make sure they all know who you are and where you live.” It’s always veiled as “they” - not “me”. County sheriffs are popularity elected and overwhelming Republican in the outlying regions of the state. So you’re not going to get any help from local law enforcement.
I still think it’s counterproductive, and to some extent self defeating, to regurgitate and give wings to this type of nonsense. It is what it is. I’d make teaching civics / government / history mandatory in schools. Would help some. Even then, you’d be met with right-wing attempts to alter or abolish the curriculum. Their idea of “balance” might be to treat Hitler, Mussolini, Churchill and FDR as “equals”.
From the article: Simply ignoring this behavior reminds me of the poem:
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
Wanna buy a bridge?
I hope I haven’t said to “ignore” criminal threats against public officials or not to pursue criminal justice thru established channels. My point is that threats gain traction when they are repeated. They don’t go away. The forum is largely anonymous and so you will destroy that which you seek to preserve by drawing from the woodwork the viscous opponents of free speech and fair play. Different from a public proceeding or Court of Juristiction.
May I suggest to others that there are more effective ways of combating these attacks on democracy: … by attending public meetings, voting, contributing to candidates and causes that promote democratic values along with PBS, and by subscribing to publications like the NYT, The WP, The New Yorker, all of which attempt to counter fake-news with substantive reporting and / or commentary. I’ve never, on the other hand, found shouting across the backyard fence at my neighbor to be very effective.
FYI
I'd like anyone to show me anything coming from the "liberal" side remotely equivalent to this obvious threat from our Republican "friends":