Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
With the increase in Social Security benefits, the dramatic increase in yields on all types of non IRA investments not to mention a second RMD in our house I started playing around with the numbers on TAXCASTER. Not a pretty picture. Something to think about.
“Taxation is the price we pay for civilization.” Oliver Wendell Holmes. According to fellow Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter: “[Holmes] did not have a curmudgeon’s feelings about his own taxes. A secretary who exclaimed ‘Don’t you hate to pay taxes!’ was rebuked with the hot response, ‘No, young feller. I like to pay taxes. With them I buy civilization.” The good news is America provides plenty of legal ways for people to avoid paying taxes, and the wealthier investors are, the more ways there are. The most obvious one is muni bonds, which are becoming interesting again.
“Taxation is the price we pay for civilization.” Oliver Wendell Holmes. According to fellow Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter: “[Holmes] did not have a curmudgeon’s feelings about his own taxes. A secretary who exclaimed ‘Don’t you hate to pay taxes!’ was rebuked with the hot response, ‘No, young feller. I like to pay taxes. With them I buy civilization.”
Holmes was a better writer than that. We pay taxes, not taxation. His words, excerpted from the source, Compania General de Tabacos v. Collector, 275 U.S. 87 (1927), were "Taxes are what we pay for civilized society". Priceless (no mention of price).
A phrase very similar to the familiar one is "taxation is the price which we pay for civilization". As Quote Investigator notes, this predates Holmes' dissent by 3/4 of a century. QI's citation for this 1852 writing is:
1852, Journal of the House of Representatives of the State of Vermont, October Session, 1851, Appendix: Report of the Committee Appointed by the Governor to Take into Consideration the Financial Affairs of the State, Start Page 368, Quote Page 369, Printed by Chauncey Goodrich, Burlington, Vermont. (Google Books full view) link
"The good news is America provides plenty of legal ways for people to avoid paying taxes, and the wealthier investors are, the more ways there are. "
I'm not sure that's good news. For this, I'll point to the Oracle of Omaha who said that he pays less (in percentage terms) than his secretary in taxes. Legal tax avoidance techniques available to the wealthier often result in regressive taxation.
@MSF Sarcasm is often harder to detect in the written word than in the physical world. I don’t think of the numerous tax loopholes for the wealthy as good news for society, although it is good for them. The quote’s history from my research indicates Holmes used some variation of it more than once, more elegantly, admittedly, in his writing.
@LewisBraham - point noted. That section didn't sound like you but it didn't come across as sharp enough to readily identify as sarcasm. No harm done. Worth clarifying.
@LewisBranham. As the recipient of your comments I did not take it as sarcasm but nonetheless the tone was off putting. As a lefty whose first adult jobs were inner city school teacher and Job Corp staff member I am very comfortable seeing what good taxes can do. I have never chased a mega back door Roth nor owned municipal bonds. But I should have.
@larryb Sorry, Larry. I did not mean to offend you, and I know a bit of your good works from previous posts. From my perspective, though, I am bombarded by messages every day from folks on the Street anguishing about taxes that really are not so bad from a historical perspective, especially for them. In any case, it is not you I would wish that sarcasm directed at. It is directed at the messaging I see all the time, especially a week from the election in which the phrase “tax and spend liberal” will be uttered a thousand times per minute everywhere you look. I wish a contrary advertising campaign was sometimes pursued with a simple message; “Taxes pay for stuff.”
@LewisBanham. None taken. My point of view is that of a recent retiree for whom taxes have yet to be a meaningful line item. But will be in Tax Year 2023. Not so much as a complaint but as an observation.
Comments
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/taxes/federal-income-tax-brackets#:~:text=There are seven federal tax,taxes due in April 2023.
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/04/13/taxes-civilize/
A phrase very similar to the familiar one is "taxation is the price which we pay for civilization". As Quote Investigator notes, this predates Holmes' dissent by 3/4 of a century. QI's citation for this 1852 writing is: "The good news is America provides plenty of legal ways for people to avoid paying taxes, and the wealthier investors are, the more ways there are. "
I'm not sure that's good news. For this, I'll point to the Oracle of Omaha who said that he pays less (in percentage terms) than his secretary in taxes. Legal tax avoidance techniques available to the wealthier often result in regressive taxation.