Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

In this Discussion

Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.

    Support MFO

  • Donate through PayPal

International Version of PRWCX

I own a substantial share of my IRA and Roth IRA in PRWCX. I'm looking for a similar fund which invests in the same fashion and falls into the same Allocation range 50 -70%, but which invests Internationally. I would also be open to a combination of funds if it follows the same approach. I'd appreciate any suggestions - clear
«1

Comments

  • NTSI is worth keeping an eye on but it isn't the same as PRWCX. NTSI is the international equivalent of NTSX.
  • PRWCX is a unique, high-performing fund.
    I doubt you'll find an international fund with similar attributes.
  • MALOX. $2M to get in. Ork!
  • edited February 1
    I haven't yet found an intl equivalent of PRWCX. For international, I am currently invested in GISYX, APFDX and MFAIX but all 3 have taken major fire recently.
  • MDLOX GBLEX MFWTX JSPCX Unfortunately, long time favorite SGENX is no longer the obvious first choice.
  • SGENX and VGWLX are value-oriented global allocation funds while PRWCX is more growth-oriented with a twist. Tough to replicate Giroux's approach in oversea investing.
  • The best solution for MFO members would be if Giroux would start up TRP International Capital Appreciation, but alas I don't think that's happening !
  • edited February 1
    Keep an eye out for announcements from the new firm where PRWCX and a few other legacy TRP funds are housed. I am expecting expansion of offerings - for the better or worse.
  • edited February 1
    Scientists are said to be working on a plan to clone David Geroux and bestow upon the new copy the cultural and linguistic attributes of the inhabitants of some as yet to be disclosed foreign domain.
  • Interesting question @golub1. I take from the responses that there are no International balanced funds let alone anything that looks and acts like PRWCX(?). A few good global allocation/balanced funds mentioned but no international balanced. I wonder why the fund industry hasn't pursued that segment.
  • edited February 1
    It may be semantics. But M* defines World-Allocation as 70%- equity that includes 40%+ exposure to international stocks. On the other hand, moderate-allocation/50-70% equity has mostly domestic stocks.

    World-allocation funds includes TIBAX/TBLD (CEF), SEGNX, CIBAX, etc. Fido had one that was shut and merged into other funds.
  • Schwab shows TBLD as a closed-end fund.
  • edited February 1
    Oops. TBLD is a term-structure CEF without leverage. Post fixed.
  • I scanned for funds with high five-year correlations to PRCWX and high international exposure. I'm not arguing for or against them, but I'll note the Pax Sustainable Allocation (PAXWX, formerly Pax World) and Fidelity Advisor Multi-Asset Income (FAYZX) have correlations in the 90s with TRP and double-digit exposure to international equities. Both are lower vol / lower return (12% APR vs 15% for TRP) over the past five years but the correlation implies the possibility of some comparable thinking.

    The oddball is Prospector Capital Appreciation, which was launched by TRP Cap App's long-time manager (Richard Howard, who left after 7 years) to be a more nimble version of the fund. Fairly high correlation (93) and slightly more international, but distinctly weaker performance (50% greater volatility, 50% lower Sharpe, trailing by 350 bps).

    And yes, I am supposed to be writing two lectures for tomorrow's first-day-of-term classes. (sigh)

  • @David

    Can you directly set a search parameter for correlation with a named ticker OR
    are you looking at the result set of a search for a high correlation?
  • Correlation has the general sense of direction of the move but doesn't provide info about extent of the move. So, the question becomes: Given high enough correlation with PRWCX, which fund performs same or better than PRWCX?
  • @stayCalm: it was a brute force operation. Set the category parameter, sorted by 5-year Sharpe (PRWCX is near the top), then ran correlations on the top 20. ID'd the folks above 90 and checked the portfolios individually. Charles might have a more elegant solution but that was my study break today.

    @yogi: hard to find a find that simultaneously outperforms TRP and has greater exposure to a lower-performing asset class, international equities. If the fortunes of domestic versus international investing change, I suppose that result would, too.
  • edited February 2
    @david - tks

    Here is the two part exercise I did

    (1)Screened for international funds older than 5 years, Sortino > 2 and APR > 10. PRWCX Sortino and APR for past 5 years are 2.33 and 15.2 respectively
    (2)Run a correlation matrix on the result set with PRWCX

    The highest correlated are
    WCM Focused International Growth Inst (0.87)
    Brown Capital Management International Small Company Inst and WCM International Small Cap Growth Inst both tied at 0.85
  • edited February 2
    As a follow up, in order to get more candidates, I lowered the Sortino threshold to 1.5 and picked the 10 highest rated funds(excluded country specific funds).

    Out of this crop popped out Grandeur Peak International Stalwarts Inst and Fidelity Series International Growth both with a R of 0.88
  • @stayCalm: thanks for running these numbers. My immediate thought on reading the OP was that there may be good global allocation funds, but that they don’t have a single “genius” manager in charge. They seem to divide equity and fixed income responsibilities among team members. It may be that there is no such animal as a good ex-US allocation fund because no single manager, playing the role of Mr Giroux, could cover all the bases, international investing being so complex.
  • Yea I think PRWCX is just a unique animal as somebody else stated. Impossible imo to find a really high R on the intl side. Close enough is the best that can be done.
  • Not sure any of these statistical or return "correlations" matter per the original poster's question.
    I'm looking for a similar fund which invests in the same fashion and falls into the same Allocation range 50 -70%, but which invests Internationally.
    Bottom line, there doesn't seem to be an international balanced/allocation fund in the 50-70% equity category- period, let alone an international balanced fund similar to PRWCX. I'm quite surprised by that given the thousands of funds out there.
  • edited February 2
    “It may be that there is no such animal as a good ex-US allocation fund because no single manager, playing the role of Mr Giroux, could cover all the bases, international investing being so complex.”

    1. How many international developed markets have outpaced the U.S. since PRWCX opened in 1986?

    2. What are the odds a manager would have successfully guessed which markets in advance?

    As an owner of PRWCX since the mid 90s I’m always a bit mystified by its ability to draw assets. Recall old line about how “past performance does not guarantee future return.” (sacrilege I’m sure)

    PRWCX itself is somewhat of a “moving target”, having evolved from a conservative mid-cap focused and less risky alternative for those investors who wanted something more tranquil than Price’s (much larger) most ubiquitous and highly successful fund, PRFDX, in those years. Without checking, I’m confident the average market cap of its holdings has increased steadily as the AUM has spiraled upwards.
  • edited February 2
    Several international funds have APR's comparable or better than PRWCX over different timeframes. But there does not appear to be any fund with a combination of high R, comparable Sortino and APR. Looking at the data, it does not appear that these indicators are useful towards finding a PRWCX equivalent for international.

    For example, below are some 15Y stats (Giroux has been running PRWCX since 2006 I think so 15Y is a good comparable stat)

    OSMAX: 10.6
    PRWCX: 10.3
    MATFX: 10.3
    FEAAX: 10.2
  • edited February 2
    Giroux co-managed PRWCX with Jeff Arricale in 2006, the pair succeeding Stephen Boesel. Prior to Bossel the fund had seen 2 prior managers. Arricale took a different position at Price the next year, leaving Giroux in charge at PRWCX, and then left the firm in 2010 embroiled in some type of personnel crisis (can’t recall the details).
  • edited February 3
    Looking @ everyone's comments I think there are no single comparable International funds. I think though that a combination of at least 2 or 3 funds will be a better choice. PRWCX Equity holdings basically mirror those of a conservative large
    Growth fund or Large Blend fund. The 30% non-equity holdings are very unlike typical 50 - 70 allocation funds. Per Morningstar as of 12/31, these 3 categories of non equities have the following Portfolio Weights.
    Bank Loan 37.35%
    Cash & Equivalents 37.34%
    Corporate Bond 21.83%

    While I feel comfortable selecting a large Blend International Fund like TROSX or MDILX, but not sure what single bond fund would be a match fund, and I don't think an International Bond fund is necessary. Therefore maybe a bank loan fund, cash and a Corp bond fund that invests in Low Quality Limited Sensitivity
    to interest rates. Not sure about a Corporate Bond choice - just following the Morningstar description. Thanks for all your suggestions. Any suggestions for the multiple fund concept?

  • I think golub1 is correct. The only way to get there is to build your own. But it sure would be nice to have 1 well managed international balanced/allocation fund doing the work for you.

    Still unbelievable to me that a 60:40 balanced type fund using international equity and international bonds exclusively doesn't exist. Seems like that would be something easy for Vanguard to market using their index funds. Would it ever match PRWCX? Oh I doubt it, unless that cloning Giroux thing hank mentioned pans out.

    A few very good world or global funds mentioned in this thread seem to be the closest thing available.
  • edited February 3
    Mr. Giroux’s 2nd largest holding, Amazon (AMZN), is down 7% today. (Maybe in sympathy with Facebook?) Lipper lists AMZN as 5.5% of his portfolio.

    “Too smart by half” is an old saying that might apply.:)
Sign In or Register to comment.