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Michigan school slaughter exposes 2nd Amendment as poison pill of the American Experiment

edited December 2021 in Off-Topic
“Are we really shocked that the nation’s shiny new toys are getting put to use?”

The Philadelphia Inquirer

Still possess the single-shot 16-gage shotgun my dad gifted me as a teen for hunting rabbits and partridge. Did not even know they made “semi-automatic” handguns (used by the kid) - or that a single handgun could hold 15 rounds. How antiquated and out of date I’ve become,


  • edited December 2021
    Today people are so heavily armed, far beyond than those for “ hunting” purpose. I am glad NOT to be a law enforcement personnel.
  • edited December 2021
    @Sven It's not just "people" who are heavily armed, but a specific subset of Americans:
    Thirty-two percent of U.S. adults say they personally own a gun, while a larger percentage, 44%, report living in a gun household. Adults living in gun households include those with a gun in their home or anywhere on their property.....
    The latest results are from Gallup's annual Crime poll, conducted Sept. 30-Oct. 15, 2020. As is typical, the rate of personal gun ownership varies most by political party and ideology, gender, race/ethnicity, region and urbanicity, with smaller differences seen by household income and marital status.

    Republicans (50%), rural residents (48%), men (45%), self-identified conservatives (45%) and Southerners (40%) are the most likely subgroups to say they personally own a gun.
    Liberals (15%), Democrats (18%), non-White Americans (18%), women (19%) and Eastern residents (21%) are the least likely to report personal gun ownership.
    The parents of the shooter in this case had very specific political views:
  • edited December 2021
    I apologize that I have mis-spoken. It is chilling that the mother did not stop what the son was about to do.
    A teacher at Oxford High School also reportedly found Ethan Crumbley looking up ammunition on his phone. When the school attempted to report this to his mother, they never heard back. Authorities later found a text she had sent to her son about the incident.

    "LOL, I'm not gonna get mad at you, you have to learn to not get caught," she wrote.
  • edited December 2021
    Not to interrupt the excellent flow of information here (much appreciated), but I know just enough of guns to say that the term “semi-automatic” understates the devastation these weapons can inflict. With a “semi-automatic” the gun continues firing until all the rounds have been exhausted as long as one keeps pressure on the trigger - in reality they sound and act more like a machine gun. It was reported the semi-automatic handgun held 15 rounds - a few of which still remained in the weapon. We’re talking only a matter of seconds to inflict so much carnage.

    What’s an “automatic” than? I’ve no idea. Probably something having an “on-off” switch, on a timer or controlled remotely. Heartbreaking episode - unfortunately all too common.
  • A "semi-automatic" weapon reloads automatically after each shot (from a magazine) but one still must pull the trigger for each shot.
  • Howdy folks,

    Mark is correct about a semiautomatic weapon of any type. It reloads automatically after each shot but you have to pull the trigger each time to fire. Bumpstocks were a device to speed up the reloading process in order it enable a more rapid rate of fire but they still weren't fully automatic. With a fully automatic weapon (e.g. machine gun), you hold the trigger down and it keeps firing until you run out of ammo or you take your finger off the trigger.

    As for Oxford, first I'm reposting what I posted on fb and sent to every steenking government official I could think of.

    "It’s time to make our schools gun free

    The killing of our school children has to stop. It’s time to make all of our schools gun free – just like most government buildings, our courthouses, airports, etc. Equip them with metal detectors and an armed guard just like our other gun free locations. Start with the elementary schools and work our way up to high school and even college. Yes, there will be a line at the door, but that can be worked out with scheduling adjustments not unlike what they’ve been doing over the past couple of years due to Covid.
    Right now our schools are a ‘free fire’ zone. Some suggest we should arm the teachers. Nonsense. That means you are going to have firefights. How many kids have to get caught in the cross-fire and die because of stray bullets? You don’t see gunfights in courthouses or on airplanes. Banning guns is the only solution.

    Some might say we’re turning our schools into fortresses or prisons but that’s hardly the case with airports or state office buildings or courthouses. The inside can be warm and friendly and normal – but without the danger of guns.

    In the past, it might have been a money issue but that’s hardly the case today. In Michigan, the marijuana revenues are incredible and the new phone gambling app is bringing in obscene amounts of money. We might be able to spend Covid Relief funds on this but for sure we will be able to apply Infrastructure package dollars.

    Make the funding, specifications, approved contractors available to all school districts and let them decide if they want to go gun free . . . or not. They will get what they vote for. I would vote for safe schools and no guns. I have two grandsons in high school. This is personal.

    And for the record, I’m hardly a snowflake. I spent 20 months in Vietnam in the Marine Corps and am a strong believer in the 2nd Amendment. I just don’t believe in stupid. Our current situation is not only stupid but it is so damn heartbreaking to see kids die that shouldn’t. It has to stop."

    Now as for the school officials, go easy on them. School peeps have a miserable life made much worse over the past couple of years by the virus. School people are like doctors, they're always trying to save the life. They meant well and wanted to save this kid . . . and they screwed up. They'll have to live with it for the rest of their lives. Also, if you brutalize them too much all other school officials will start to overreact to every kid that's 'different'. Not dangerous - just a little slow, or real shy, or looks weird. These kids will be demonized like the witches of Salem.

    Just harden the gd schools.

    and so it goes,

    peace and wear the damn mask,


  • edited December 2021
    Mark said:

    A "semi-automatic" weapon reloads automatically after each shot (from a magazine) but one still must pull the trigger for each shot. </blockquote

    Thanks guys. Apologies. I should have fact-checked. My only experience was with a Remington 300 shotgun I owned for a year or two and seldom used. Someone told me once it would fire continuously - but I never bothered to test that assertion. Wicked weapons nonetheless. More fire power than I care to possess.

    As a former Michigan HS teach I’ll say that even in my day 30-40 years ago there were teen boys who would draw guns openly in class. (Can only think of 2 or 3 in a near 30 year career). Obviously these kids were deeply disturbed and always referred to administration, counseling, etc. Today such weapons are much more easily available than back than - thanks in part to looser restrictions. My guess, however, is that for every 100 or more kids who draw those pictures, very few - if any - actually carry out the threat. More often it’s a way to scare or intimidate whoever sees the drawing. Ahhh …

    A related question: What to do when the parents are just as “disturbed” as the kid?

  • Rules need more teeth, when parents will not or cannot be the ADULTS. "Your son needs help, and a different school setting--- at least, for now." WHY on earth can't schools ANYWHERE do that???? Individual-ism reigns. Ridiculous procedures and rules.
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