Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
Reply to @rono: You're going to have to help me out here old friend because I don't understand how that would be a good thing. If you can't pay your loans (speaking as one who had them and paid them back) then you should have to perform some kind of service. So anyway what's your thinking.
Since the person obtained the loan is often young, the person will be put into a payment plan and over their lifetime these loans will be payed one way or another.
Reply to @Mark: Nick may be right. While the title of the linked article is "What is Uncle Sam's Largest Asset", the text lists only financial assets. A quick search turned up a FY2005 GSA report, An Overview of the US Federal Government's Real Property Assets (June 2006), reporting total replacement value of assets (buildings and structures) at $1.26B, or about double the largest financial asset.
That doesn't include the value of the (then) 54.9M acres of Federal lands. What's the value of a national park? Priceless.
Reply to @Mark: I agree with your core thought, but we live in an era where it's become "acceptable" for people.
"ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. — For Alex Pemberton and Susan Reboyras, foreclosure is becoming a way of life — something they did not want but are in no hurry to get out of.
Foreclosure has allowed them to stabilize the family business. Go to Outback occasionally for a steak. Take their gas-guzzling airboat out for the weekend. Visit the Hard Rock Casino.
"Instead of the house dragging us down, it's become a life raft," said Pemberton, who stopped paying the mortgage on their house here last summer. "It's really been a blessing."
"A study by Luigi Guiso, Paola Sapienza and Luigi Zingales published last July found that 81% of homeowners surveyed believe that defaulting on a mortgage is "immoral." But those who know someone who defaulted are 82% more likely to declare their intention to do so as well. The willingness to default increases with the proportion of foreclosures in the same ZIP code, becoming a sort of "contagion" that reduces the social stigma."
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There's also this from a few years back, and I'm sure it isn't the only instance: "So we’ve discussed the ethics of individual borrowers walking away from their mortgages. (Some say we’ve over-discussed it.) If it’s immoral, as some would say, for a borrower to walk away their mortgage, is it any different for a bank?
Morgan Stanley is doing just that. News reports on Thursday said the bank plans to give back five San Francisco office buildings to its lender–just two years after buying them at the top of the market."
So, yes, I agree with what you're saying, but it's the time we live in, where people who do the right thing and go the "old-fashioned" route feel silly while other people get bailed out.
As for student loans, that's a mess that is going to have to work itself out because I don't think anyone who has the power to is going to take any action to begin to offer any solution.
Reply to @msf: Priceless indeed!! And yeah, the article title is a little off and even the pie chart title does say 'financial' assets. It's hard to believe that all the buildings and structures could be replaced for $1.26B; Bill Gate's house cost that much didn't it?
I was ranting. Sorry. Actually, the top corporations should have to eat them. I've listened to all their crap for years now, how they're the job creators so they should be exempt from everything. feh. Seems to me as they're the primary beneficiary of an educated labor force, they should have to pay for education.
Now, considering that this might not occur, what we should fight for is to have it legal to have student loans crammed down thru bankruptcy . . . as should mortgages. No debt should be exempt from bankruptcy court. In that way, a judge could make the call.
And I too feel that folks should have to pay their debts. They just shouldn't be locked up in debtors prison when they can't. When they get run over by the bloody bus there should be some relief. Should everyone have to pay their debts? Sure. However, how much of some recent mortgage and student loan debt is hyper-inflated. Cripes, tuition didn't start going up as fast as it has until the Feds started making student loans available. The more was made available and the more tuition has risen. The entire student loan debt is an asset bubble that's gonna burst guys and it's going to be messy. How many of the folks on this board have that good guaranteed student paper somewhere in our portfolios?
The federal government's biggest asset is obviously its (mostly) younger citizens getting education and becoming productive citizens many decades to come.
Comments
Art
Works for me,
peace,
rono
http://www.money-zine.com/Financial-Planning/College-Loan/Student-Loan-Bankruptcy-Options/
Since the person obtained the loan is often young, the person will be put into a payment plan and over their lifetime these loans will be payed one way or another.
That doesn't include the value of the (then) 54.9M acres of Federal lands. What's the value of a national park? Priceless.
"ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. — For Alex Pemberton and Susan Reboyras, foreclosure is becoming a way of life — something they did not want but are in no hurry to get out of.
Foreclosure has allowed them to stabilize the family business. Go to Outback occasionally for a steak. Take their gas-guzzling airboat out for the weekend. Visit the Hard Rock Casino.
"Instead of the house dragging us down, it's become a life raft," said Pemberton, who stopped paying the mortgage on their house here last summer. "It's really been a blessing."
http://seattletimes.com/html/realestate/2012017089_nopaymortgage06.html
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Particularly interesting study:
http://realestate.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=23390500
"A study by Luigi Guiso, Paola Sapienza and Luigi Zingales published last July found that 81% of homeowners surveyed believe that defaulting on a mortgage is "immoral." But those who know someone who defaulted are 82% more likely to declare their intention to do so as well. The willingness to default increases with the proportion of foreclosures in the same ZIP code, becoming a sort of "contagion" that reduces the social stigma."
----
There's also this from a few years back, and I'm sure it isn't the only instance: "So we’ve discussed the ethics of individual borrowers walking away from their mortgages. (Some say we’ve over-discussed it.) If it’s immoral, as some would say, for a borrower to walk away their mortgage, is it any different for a bank?
Morgan Stanley is doing just that. News reports on Thursday said the bank plans to give back five San Francisco office buildings to its lender–just two years after buying them at the top of the market."
http://blogs.wsj.com/developments/2009/12/17/walk-away-news-morgan-stanley-gives-properties-back-to-the-lender/
---
So, yes, I agree with what you're saying, but it's the time we live in, where people who do the right thing and go the "old-fashioned" route feel silly while other people get bailed out.
As for student loans, that's a mess that is going to have to work itself out because I don't think anyone who has the power to is going to take any action to begin to offer any solution.
I was ranting. Sorry. Actually, the top corporations should have to eat them. I've listened to all their crap for years now, how they're the job creators so they should be exempt from everything. feh. Seems to me as they're the primary beneficiary of an educated labor force, they should have to pay for education.
Now, considering that this might not occur, what we should fight for is to have it legal to have student loans crammed down thru bankruptcy . . . as should mortgages. No debt should be exempt from bankruptcy court. In that way, a judge could make the call.
And I too feel that folks should have to pay their debts. They just shouldn't be locked up in debtors prison when they can't. When they get run over by the bloody bus there should be some relief. Should everyone have to pay their debts? Sure. However, how much of some recent mortgage and student loan debt is hyper-inflated. Cripes, tuition didn't start going up as fast as it has until the Feds started making student loans available. The more was made available and the more tuition has risen. The entire student loan debt is an asset bubble that's gonna burst guys and it's going to be messy. How many of the folks on this board have that good guaranteed student paper somewhere in our portfolios?
peace,
rono
Conjurance enabling circular finance has come to be the most critical asset.
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/03/Debt Issuance US YTD_1_0.jpg
As of June 2006 total value of US Governments buildings and structures was $1.26 Trillion.