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Goldman Analysts Claim Inhumane Working Conditions
Goldman Sachs junior bankers describe 'inhumane' working conditions where they don't have time to eat or shower in a brutal internal survey -
“First-year analysts at Goldman are speaking up about what they say are abusive working conditions. An informal survey of 13 junior bankers is making the rounds on social media. The analysts describe declining mental health, grueling 100-hour work weeks, and a lack of sleep.”
Not that I agree, but I thought this was the norm for young investment bankers? Anyway, saw this article on David Solomon the Goldman CEO. I literally LOL with this line:
"It was also last summer that Solomon was lunching at a Hamptons eatery when he found himself approached by a junior banker who wanted to say “Hi” to the big boss. The underling went so far as to point out that she was there with some of his colleagues — on a work day.
The encounter reportedly annoyed Solomon, who repeated the story for months afterward as a prime example in his argument against remote work during the pandemic. But some couldn’t help but note the irony that Solomon was also having lunch in the Hamptons instead of toiling away at his desk."
Mr. Solomon likely thinks he’s earned his lunch - it’s the old “if I had to do it back in the day, then you have to do it now” attitude.
What’s really ironic is that research and data-driven companies like investment banks don’t even think about looking at the research and data when making decisions about their personnel and working conditions.
I worked for a small "boutique" investment bank in NYC about 15 years ago, and the analysts there would often work wicked hours. Sometimes, when working on a deal, they would sleep at their desk (or under it) for a few hours overnight. Weekends were never their own. They were paid well, but they were mistreated badly. Some saw it as "paying your dues" for a nice career in Private Equity later on.
I had a discussion with a proud recent college grad once, who told me he was about to head off to GS, to make a big salary in NY. I asked him if he divided his salary by 2 (to account for the fact that he would be working 80+ hour weeks), and then discounted the halved amount by 10-15% to account for the increased cost of living, if he really thought was making all that much in the end.
He looked at me stunned and said: "no, not really".
I then asked him how much cool stuff he thought he'd be able to do in NYC when he was working 80+ hour weeks.
ORK. That kind of expectation is certainly absurd, inhumane, and ridiculous. I recall being on-call at the hospital for the WHOLE week-end. I might be busy, but maybe not. I might be called to a situation in the middle of the night, or not. And the tv in that stinky room received one channel--- very badly. But it was done everywhere like that. So, we grinned and we bore it. But it still sucked.
I had a discussion with a proud recent college grad once, who told me he was about to head off to GS, to make a big salary in NY. I asked him if he divided his salary by 2 (to account for the fact that he would be working 80+ hour weeks), and then discounted the halved amount by 10-15% to account for the increased cost of living, if he was making all that much. He looked at me stunned and said: "no, not really". I then asked him how much cool stuff he thought he'd be able to do in NYC when he was working 80+ hour weeks. He was, as you might imagine, stunned again.
har
This also shows he does not have the macro / contextual analytical skills for the job, really, either....
kids today.
One of mine works for the most 'prestigious' consulting firm, in the news recently for reasons not at all good, and it's pretty much the same as to labor quantity (and he's not close to entry-level either). Eesh, you could not pay me to do that, nor have so paid me in the past.
@davidrmoran: in my line of work, i occasionally work with consultants from some of the largest and/or most prestigious firms; some are all-around outstanding, some are simply masters at communicating just about anything, or getting the consulting paradigm. All work egregious hours, up until the point they decide that a family means more to them than the politics or status/career chasing endemic to that sector, or feel that the consulting / advisory paradigm is bankrupt.
On a separate yet related note, informal conversations I've had have indicated that IB and consulting and Big Law are facing the same millenial expectation problems as other segments of the labor market. These include not only an aversion to long hours (and expectations to make partner in 18 months), but an ultimate misunderstanding of where the paychecks and bonuses come from (I say "ultimate", because there is an "understanding" at the outset, but it's not grounded in a mature recognition of the fact that the firm and it's clients are the boss, and that firms are seldom democracies or advocacy organizations).
I think tech orgs get around it via a "work is play" blush, and their ability to convince employees that they're part of something bigger. That "something" these days now often directly linked to "changing the world". Some consultancies are starting to make this type of pitch as well, while selling the fact that, no, indeed, you can have a family and hobbies and become partner at Bain/BCG/BAH etc. These pitches can be quite amusing if you have insight into what the cultures are really like at these places and how thin any warm, fuzzy veneer can be.
That said, and as someone noted above, the model (which is relied on in yet other industries, such as nonprofits, but to a lesser degree) is likely to prove a social justice and or sustainable economy issue, or unsustainable for other reasons.
This was common during Dot Com when we were all working to build the 'modern' internet, such that it is. Back then, we believed in what we were inventing/creating/running and us GenX'ers also had the last vestigages of that 'old time' work ethic we picked up from our parents, families, and teachers in the 70s and 80s growing up.
We worked hard, we had (some) fun, we played hard, sometime slept in the office when on a final deadline, rarely complained and were fairly compensated one way or the other. We didn't have expectations of grandeur of making VP or Director or Partner in 2 years after hire or anything like that. Now, it seems everyone feels entitled to everything, and if they encounter obstacles (like time-in-grade or industry, certification or competency exams, etc) you're seen as putting up exclusionary roadblocks and how-dare-you.
Admittedly, the expectation for some things have changed, and I think for the better, such as improving work-life balance, remote work, etc. And I *totally* agree there are people problems - especially several horrible gender/social issues in the tech field, which is my own discipline and thus am most familiar with - which has contrbuted to the huge push across sectors for equality, equity, & expectations. Unfortunately, you can take addressing them to insane or extreme lengths in the name of 'inclusion' and that can end up causing resentment by all involved. This situation is made worse if you feel discouraged from asking constructively critical questions about things because that'll put you on record & suggest that you're not committed to [cause or solution du jour] by the bean counters. internal affairs, HR, or consultants.
I daresay in some ways as a society we've lost all sense of reason in dealing with such issues, many of which indeed are longstanding problems that need improvement and/or resolution ASAP.
Comments
"It was also last summer that Solomon was lunching at a Hamptons eatery when he found himself approached by a junior banker who wanted to say “Hi” to the big boss. The underling went so far as to point out that she was there with some of his colleagues — on a work day.
The encounter reportedly annoyed Solomon, who repeated the story for months afterward as a prime example in his argument against remote work during the pandemic. But some couldn’t help but note the irony that Solomon was also having lunch in the Hamptons instead of toiling away at his desk."
https://nypost.com/2021/03/15/david-solomons-lavish-lifestlye-irks-goldman-sachs-underlings/
What’s really ironic is that research and data-driven companies like investment banks don’t even think about looking at the research and data when making decisions about their personnel and working conditions.
I had a discussion with a proud recent college grad once, who told me he was about to head off to GS, to make a big salary in NY. I asked him if he divided his salary by 2 (to account for the fact that he would be working 80+ hour weeks), and then discounted the halved amount by 10-15% to account for the increased cost of living, if he really thought was making all that much in the end.
He looked at me stunned and said: "no, not really".
I then asked him how much cool stuff he thought he'd be able to do in NYC when he was working 80+ hour weeks.
He was, as you might imagine, again taken aback.
I had a discussion with a proud recent college grad once, who told me he was about to head off to GS, to make a big salary in NY. I asked him if he divided his salary by 2 (to account for the fact that he would be working 80+ hour weeks), and then discounted the halved amount by 10-15% to account for the increased cost of living, if he was making all that much.
He looked at me stunned and said: "no, not really".
I then asked him how much cool stuff he thought he'd be able to do in NYC when he was working 80+ hour weeks.
He was, as you might imagine, stunned again.
har
This also shows he does not have the macro / contextual analytical skills for the job, really, either....
kids today.
One of mine works for the most 'prestigious' consulting firm, in the news recently for reasons not at all good, and it's pretty much the same as to labor quantity (and he's not close to entry-level either). Eesh, you could not pay me to do that, nor have so paid me in the past.
On a separate yet related note, informal conversations I've had have indicated that IB and consulting and Big Law are facing the same millenial expectation problems as other segments of the labor market. These include not only an aversion to long hours (and expectations to make partner in 18 months), but an ultimate misunderstanding of where the paychecks and bonuses come from (I say "ultimate", because there is an "understanding" at the outset, but it's not grounded in a mature recognition of the fact that the firm and it's clients are the boss, and that firms are seldom democracies or advocacy organizations).
I think tech orgs get around it via a "work is play" blush, and their ability to convince employees that they're part of something bigger. That "something" these days now often directly linked to "changing the world". Some consultancies are starting to make this type of pitch as well, while selling the fact that, no, indeed, you can have a family and hobbies and become partner at Bain/BCG/BAH etc. These pitches can be quite amusing if you have insight into what the cultures are really like at these places and how thin any warm, fuzzy veneer can be.
That said, and as someone noted above, the model (which is relied on in yet other industries, such as nonprofits, but to a lesser degree) is likely to prove a social justice and or sustainable economy issue, or unsustainable for other reasons.
This time, it may all indeed be, different.
We worked hard, we had (some) fun, we played hard, sometime slept in the office when on a final deadline, rarely complained and were fairly compensated one way or the other. We didn't have expectations of grandeur of making VP or Director or Partner in 2 years after hire or anything like that. Now, it seems everyone feels entitled to everything, and if they encounter obstacles (like time-in-grade or industry, certification or competency exams, etc) you're seen as putting up exclusionary roadblocks and how-dare-you.
Admittedly, the expectation for some things have changed, and I think for the better, such as improving work-life balance, remote work, etc. And I *totally* agree there are people problems - especially several horrible gender/social issues in the tech field, which is my own discipline and thus am most familiar with - which has contrbuted to the huge push across sectors for equality, equity, & expectations. Unfortunately, you can take addressing them to insane or extreme lengths in the name of 'inclusion' and that can end up causing resentment by all involved. This situation is made worse if you feel discouraged from asking constructively critical questions about things because that'll put you on record & suggest that you're not committed to [cause or solution du jour] by the bean counters. internal affairs, HR, or consultants.
I daresay in some ways as a society we've lost all sense of reason in dealing with such issues, many of which indeed are longstanding problems that need improvement and/or resolution ASAP.