No bailouts

rono

Howdy folks,

https://www.guernicamag.com/robert_reich_the_bailout_of_al/

I concur. The airline industry will take decades to recover if at all. Same for travel and leisure.

1. Only a percentage of peeps traveled or cruised before. Much smaller.
2. What percentage of peeps will never be able to afford it.
3. What percentage of peeps will find that Virtual is great and never go back to F2F.
4. Business travel died and will not return.

Different world folks

Flatten the Curve

Peace

Rono

Mark

Loans maybe but no to bailouts in most cases. The middle class should not be on the hook for bad management practices like they were left holding the doggy bags (poop piles not food) after the financial crisis.

Crash

Truth. And rono: You are convincing. Sadly, I fear you are way too correct. Will countries (like the US) end up needing to nationalize the airlines? You know, the way Ireland used to subsidize Aer Lingus? Italy with Alitalia? Greece with Olympic? And yet, Olympic DIED, didn't it? The tip of the iceberg. From that link, above: "...The only way Wall Street’s meltdown doesn’t spill over to Main Street is if policymakers begin to pay adequate attention to the people whose wallets really keep the economy going, and who merit more help than the Wall Street tycoons whose carelessness and negligence have put it in such jeopardy..." This will be a bloodbath. Consumerism has kept this Market afloat. (I looked up the common garden definition of "consumerism," in order to post it here. The first "definition" which popped up is quite incomplete and deliberately amoral. But Consumerism is, simply put, a vice: buying and spending thoughtlessly, regardless of need.)

rono

Hi Marks,

The House should demand for Absentee Ballots nationwide. Won't happen because the Republicans are such Nazi whores but we can hope for the states. We have it now in Michigan because we passed it by referendum.

Oh well,

rono

Mark

Governments offer financial lifelines to airlines, at a price

From Reuters. "Under the $58 billion U.S. proposal for passenger and cargo carriers, the U.S. Treasury Department could receive warrants, stock options, or stock as a condition of government assistance in order for the government to participate in gains and be compensated for risks.
"We are not bailing out the airlines or other industries – period," U.S. Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Richard Shelby said in a statement. "Instead, we are allowing the Treasury Secretary to make or guarantee collateralized loans to industries whose operations the coronavirus outbreak has jeopardised.""

Mark

A fairly decent article at SA re: bailouts.

This Time It Is 'Too Many To Fail' Rather Than 'Too Big To Fail'

LewisBraham

The government should let them go through a structured bankruptcy, then nationalize them while providing laid off workers extra unemployment insurance and rehiring as many as possible after nationalization. Those airlines that survive on their own can then compete against the non-profit nationalized airlines.

rono

Howdy folks,

Please realize that nothing will ever be paid back. Not one dime. What's worse is that it will not help nor save these industries. The airline, cruise lines, hotels, casinos and anything that smells like travel or tourism are dead. There is no demand nor will there be.

Just pissing down a rat hole.

And so it goes

Peace and Flatten the Curve

Rono

Mark

"The airline, cruise lines, hotels, casinos and anything that smells like travel or tourism are dead. There is no demand nor will there be."

I don't buy that totally. Those that deserve to die, should. Those that were shall we say blind-sided and/or tried to do the right thing and continue along those lines should be allowed and assisted in survival. I have far too many friends in the service industry, both owners and wait staff, who are even now providing free services to those in need the best they can.

Crash

LewisBraham said:

The government should let them go through a structured bankruptcy, then nationalize them while providing laid off workers extra unemployment insurance and rehiring as many as possible after nationalization. Those airlines that survive on their own can then compete against the non-profit nationalized airlines.

This appeals to me, rather. But I would physically block--- if I could--- any move to help the airlines, without a new and improved Passenger Bill of Rights. Maybe the most obvious and most necessary provision should be that luggage doesn't have to pay to fly. Travelers are people, and people need luggage. Screw the airlines. ...I wonder how we might re-institute something like the Civil Aeronautics Board? They regulated fares. Maybe they regulated routes, too, I forget. I think airlines were required to fly some unprofitable routes, because otherwise, those towns would have no service... Also, under the CAB regime, the airlines just callously set their fares at the top of the permitted limit. Bags of pus.

VintageFreak

There will be a bailout. If not any industry like airlines or in service sector, then some financial institution. It is hard for me to believe some investment bank hasn't been caught on the wrong side of the trade. Admittedly it's because as I have become older and see the intellectual corruption and objectivist self interest around me I generally have very low opinion of people who call themselves "leaders". I mean that from a business sense not political sense.

There is some idiot or group of idiots who has F'ed things up and is going to need a bailout. I wouldn't bat an eyelid if next month I hear (say) Morgan Stanley needs to be bailed out.

rono

Howdy folks,

The best suggestion was by a former Fed Gov that they should overly liquidize the system so that everyone could borrow available funds as needed. He thought bailing out individual industries was a terrible idea - where's it going to stop?!?

The corporations received the biggest tax cut in history and used it to buy back shares thereby enriching their management and executives. Now they want you and I to bail them out. Hell no. My God people, the cruise lines are all foreign flag [they're not even American companies]. Casinos? There won't be a convention booked in Vegas for several years. Hotels? Really?!? Live sporting events? Sure. 100K in the Big House. Geez, the CEO from AMC theaters was on yesterday crying for a bailout. Er, theaters will NEVER come back. Maybe Drive-Ins but not sit down theaters. Shithead should plow under shopping Malls and convert them to Drive-In theaters.

These bailouts are simply a way for current management to get their money out before these companies go OB leaving all their employees with shit.

Will the tourism and travel industry recover? Sure, but it will be decades - not months. Do I enjoy this? Er, wifey and I have been booked for over 2 years on a 13 day Med cruise on Viking slated to sail out of Venice on April 25. We're supposed to receive a full cash refund. We're still on for Yosemite in July and my Vietnam reunion in DC in August. WTF knows?

The problem is that we're boomers with the means, but at 71, I'm not sure how many more trips I'll want to take; or choose to afford to take, over my remaining years. The boomers are the only generation with the means and how many are going to still choose to take that 'once in a lifetime' trip? And how many still have the means to choose to travel? Also, my folks lived through the Great Depression and their behavior was forever changed. The children of today will be the same way. And don't look for business travel to help save the day. duh Video Conferencing and work from home are going to become the NORM. Education will be virtual - FOREVER. A live music concert? A sports bar? All of this will survive but it will be a lot smaller - on the margin.

We're going to waken from this nightmare in a few weeks or months and it will be a new world. What each of us has to do now is take care of ourselves and loved ones and neighbors and watch what goes on. Watch what works. What doesn't. Who the smart people are. Who aren't.

and so it goes,

peace, and Flatten the Curve,

rono

Mark

I'd almost bet old 45 is just itching to declare bankruptcy on everything he owns and/or he will be looking for a full bailout package. Let's see what happens.

rono

That's why he wants to bail out the hotels and casinos and airlines. He's looking for an exit from the resort business. Bailout my ass.

Hopefully, everyone in Washington will come down with the TrumpVirus and we can let God sort them out.

take care,

rono

LewisBraham

@Mark @rono If he bails his own businesses out with taxpayer money, people should take to the streets--with of course face masks and gloves.

Mark

From Catherine Rampell at WaPo:

No, the airlines do not need a bailout

If any taxpayer funds are used they should be used to eliminate baggage and other fees and in the removal of every other row of seats. Since deregulation the airlines have treated their customers like crap.

Crash

Mark said:

From Catherine Rampell at WaPo:

No, the airlines do not need a bailout

If any taxpayer funds are used they should be used to eliminate baggage and other fees and in the removal of every other row of seats. Since deregulation the airlines have treated their customers like crap.

You just rang my bell. Very loudly. TRUTH.