With all the pol discussions of student debt forgiveness, I have been trying to "educate myself" on the topic, and in particular one aspect of this discussion:
Can anyone on the board point me to a link that quantifies student debt by degree/degree type (e.g. STEM, business, law, medical, social sciences etc.)? I've tried to "google" the info, but to no avail. I have to believe SOME govt/other entity has collected this data. But where or where is it?
I'll confess to a bias here: I suspect there the inability of a graduate to service/repay their student debt is materially determined by the marketability of the degree program they pursued. As a group, I suspect holders of engineering, technical, and business degrees while entering the work force with very large student debts, have a much lower loan delinquency rates than others who may have made a very poor "life choice" in choosing non-marketable degrees, say in the social sciences.
But hey, I like to think I have an open mind about things. I'd like to see any data which would either confirm or refute this hypothesis.
Anybody have a link?
Comments
Derf
Rethink that Poetry Degree
More possible links here:
Student Loan Defaults
Regards,
Ted
https://studentloanhero.com/featured/student-loan-forgiveness-really-worth-it/
Our higher educational system is in decline because it succeeded in making every young person believe that a degree was essential and that it was within reach of anyone. In order to meet the demand of the hordes of students, many of whom do not meet the traditional admissions standards, colleges and universities lowered their standards for admittance and graduation while creating degree programs in areas of study generally considered to be vocational training. My former university now offers a degree in beer brewing!! Students are no longer required to write cogent prose and requirements for serious papers or term papers have been steadily diluted. Don't get me going about how online education is nothing but fluff. It's not surprising that the student loan business came into being just as universities opened the gates to all comers. I wish I had a solution to the student debt problem, but I do believe the blame extends far beyond the lenders and the borrowers. It's a systemic problem whose study a true (i.e; not like the current one) Department of Education should undertake. I am cognizant of the irony: a decentralized system of higher education needs a central authority to attempt to solve its problems.
Derf
Regards,
Ted
From a financial standpoint, students in the past decade or two have gotten screwed. Tuition and fees have soared, interest rates for student loans are higher than rates for cars and homes. Sure, some students have majored in subjects that might not seem practical to an engineer or business person, but we can’t all be engineers, lawyers, doctors, business people, etc. I would argue that many employers would be better served by hiring students who major in liberal arts, history, biology or other impractical subjects because they could be more creative, open minded and skilled at communicating.
BTW, I majored in environmental science as a undergraduate and journalism as a graduate student— not because I was trying to get rich but because the subjects interested me.
It would seem that for many college students, attending school is now an UN-economic activity. That's a shame. But subsidizing un-economic activity by compulsive taxation seldom makes sense in life.
Some prices from the 1970s
Average 1970s home price – approximately $27,000 (prices went up through the 1970s)
Annual tuition/room and board at a state university - $400- $1200 per year
First Class stamp – 6 cents
Food / Toiletries
- Large eggs – 59 cents per dozen
- Milk – 62 cents per gallon
- Potatoes – 99 cents for 10 lbs.
- Butter - $1.33 per pound
- Bacon – 80 cents per pound
- Sirloin Steak - $1.19 per pound
- Loaf of bread – 25 cents
- Ketchup – 19 cents
- Sugar – 39 cents for 5 lbs.
- Tomato Soup – 10 cents per can
- Coffee - $1.90 per pound
- Toothpaste – 75 cents
- Pork Chops – 59 cents per pound
- Pot Roast – 59 cents per pound
- Frozen TV dinners – 39 cents
- Bar Soap – 20 cents per bar
- Onions – 9 cents per pound
- Oranges – 7 cents per pound
Car-related Items
- Gas – 36 cents per gallon (before the 1973 oil crisis)
- Car - $3900 (1970); $5500 (1979)
- Whitewall Tires - $13
- Motor Oil – 25 cents per quart
- 8-track tape player - $40
- CB Radio - $140
1970s Clothing Prices
- Men’s down jacket - $20
- Men’s suit - $40
- Men’s sport coat - $30
- Men’s dress shoes - $22
- Wrangler jeans - $10
- Women’s summer dress - $8
- Women’s slippers - $4
- Ladies spring coat - $25
- 1970s Furniture / Household prices
- Bunk beds - $100
- Recliner chair - $70
- Bean Bag chair - $20
- Porcelain sink - $10
- Mattress and box spring - $75
- Latex house paint - $7 per gallon
Toys prices in the 1970s
- Atari game cartridges - $20
- Mattel Hot Wheels Car – 69 cents
- Radio-Controlled car - $5
- Barbie inflatable furniture set - $2
Source: http://www.classic70s.com/1970s-prices.html
Here’s a second article that gets into the cost of education a little better. @Tarwheel is correct that the cost of a college education has risen more than many other costs - but about in line with the increase in housing costs. https://www.thesimpledollar.com/a-dose-of-financial-reality/
A few thoughts on why education costs may have risen faster than some other areas since 1970s:
- Education is a part of the broader service sector - heavily dependent on human capital. The biggest single item in a human’s budget is probably housing. Since housing has outpaced most other COL expenses, salary for college employees have needed to keep pace.
- Education also depends heavily on infrastructure. The cost of basic infrastructure has increased along with housing. Much of this probably relates to stricter building safety codes, along with increases for real estate and construction materials,
- The speed of technological change has necessitated frequent and expensive upgrades to the technology on site. For example, a high school with which I was intimately familiar installed Apple computers for the kids to learn on shortly after the Apple 2e debuted in the early 80s. Only five or six years later, the vastly superior Microsoft Windows came out and the school invested heavily in replacing the outdated Apples with new IBMs capable of running Microsoft. Everything else needed revamping as the systems were markedly different: new monitors, changing over from floppy disk to hard drives, new printers and retraining of staff.
- Women had not yet achieved wage parity with men in the 1970s across the employment spectrum. Since education (along with nursing) was one of the most accessible career paths for women, their participation in the labor force may have helped hold down college labor costs.
Speaking as a current academic (following 20 years in industry) don't get me started on the insanity of the academic business. What really burns me is seeing more administrators and staff hired to lead feel-good initiatives while schools rely mainly on underpaid and professionally abused adjunct faculty to be the primary educators of the future is just one example.
I'm reminded of USMC Gen Smedley Butler's classic 'War Is A Racket' monograph --- replace 'War' with 'Contemporary Education' and I'm pretty sure many of the same observations apply.
Universities have added far more support staff and administrators since the 70's, and have reduced full-time faculty positions. As @rforno said, a massive percentage of undergrad courses are taught by part-timers who get the equivalent of "piece work," namely a low sum for each course taught. I'm aware of some who travel around to three different campuses during the work week; this is possible in SE MI where there is a concentration of schools. One told me she was an expert on NPR programming because of all the windshield time she devoted to her jobs. Remedial courses, tutoring, and retention of students, many of whom are not prepared for college-level work, require support staff. Federal and state regulations also require appointing administrative staff: I doubt my undergrad alma mater had a diversity officer of any kind. Woe to any college that does not have an exercise facility that is as plush as the New York Athletic Club.
I will desist, lest I really get wound up and go on for fifty minutes!
I would assert that life is not about markets and money. Those are means to an end. If someone prays at an altar to Gordon Gecko, then "greed is GOOD." And surely, you can sense my sarcasm, there.... As for me: I was blessed to have been literally sponsored through my last 2 (of FOUR) undergrad years, and through my first grad. degree. My second, related, connected, graduate degree was paid for by me and my first wife. And that turned out to be a 3-semester commitment rather than two, because the Registrar was an empty headed, brainless bag of armadillo anuses. That 3rd semester (living off campus and commuting about 40 minutes each way) was necessary in order to take just ONE course--- though she had assured me in person that I was on track and had all the credit hours I needed, after two terms. ...Come to think of it, there was a fellow who over-promised and under-delivered regarding transferable credits toward my first grad degree, too. (We are TRULY surrounded by imbeciles, folks.)
Bachelors: Philosophy. Minors: Lit and History. Grad degrees were in Theology. Because life is about discovering or creating a sense of MEANING--- which must evolve and change and mature (hopefully) through life. Looking for answers? Often, the answer is the one that makes the most sense to you. A great many of Life's Great Questions are Mysteries. Beyond our limited ken. And I know for sure that I'm worth more (we are ALL worth more) than a paycheck or a portfolio.
And @BenWP and @rforno are making perfect sense in their remarks, above. Dumbed-down standards, over-using and abusing adjunct teachers, political correctness, etc. etc... Catholic bishops are so desperate for single MALES: You would not believe how completely unprepared for graduate study some of my classmates were. I recall the time one of them asked me to proofread an academic paper before he submitted it. In the very first sentence, THERE WAS NO VERB. Another classmate had a paper returned to him by the professor, (along with everyone else) and on it was written in red: "All this shows me is that you know how to type."..... And these days, so I hear, teachers are not permitted to use red, because it's too LOUD and might upset the student? Shit.