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I did a search for any funds with better 3, 5, and 10 year performance and lower volatility (as measured by three year std deviation).
An oddball fund that has superior performance and similarly low volatility (though not quite as low) is FRIFX.
No fund beat VWINX on all four metrics (three lengths of performance periods and volatility). But if I relax this a bit by allowing a bit higher volatility if it is more than outweighed by its superior performance (i.e. better three year sharpe ratio), then many funds pop out. They include funds such as:
VTMFX (a peer of VWINX; virtually identical Sharpe ratio with higher performance and volatility due to its 50/50 mix vs. Wellesley's 40/60 mix)
PRWCX (moving toward more equity and more volatility; 20% better Sharpe ratio in exchange)
VWELX (again, more equity and volatility; virtually identical Sharpe ratio to VWINX)
Several convertibles funds offer a similar increase in equity "feel", commensurate increase in volatility, and improved Sharpe ratio. PACIX may be the most accessible (open, load-waved through some brokerages).
Moving into pure equity, volatility continues to increase. Still, many large cap blend funds combine (relatively) low volatility and high performance to offer comparable risk adjusted return (sharpe ratio). But even the lowest volatility funds in this group are significantly more volatile than VWINX, and their risk-adjusted returns aren't much better. To get significantly risk-adjusted returns here, you have to take on even more risk (i.e. move beyond the low risk equity funds). See, e.g. PRBLX.
Few large cap value funds offer superior risk adjusted returns. Of note are the Yackman funds (YACKX, YAFFX) with volatility not much greater than VWELX.
It's the rare (relatively) low risk large cap growth fund that offers even comparable risk adjusted return. One that stands out here is CSIEX.
As one moves to mid and smaller cap funds, risk tends to go up, and it becomes harder to justify it with better performance if risk is a paramount concern.
Couple weeks ago I posted a link at VG that let’s you enter a symbol from another fund complex and thereby learn what VG considers their closest match. Works opposite of what you’re trying to do. But may be of some help in verifying that the fund(s) you’re considering is considered similar to VWINX in VG’s eyes.
Tend to agree with the suggestion above to go with the “real deal.” I suspect VWINX isn’t an easy one to duplicate. On the other hand, if, like me, you’re accustomed to working directly with just one or a small handful of houses, I can understand why you might not want to move to VG.
At a glance VWINX appears to be 40/60 fund (heavier on the fixed-income side). One I like at Price that’s a well run 40/60 fund is TRRIX. But it lags VWINX performance wise (by about 2 percentage points over 10 years). Hard to beat VG’s low ER. That’s often the difference between a very good fund and a great one,
Tend to agree with the suggestion above to go with the “real deal.” I suspect VWINX isn’t an easy one to duplicate. On the other hand, if, like me, you’re accustomed to working directly with just one or a small handful of houses, I can understand why you might not want to move to VG.
Also in the last few years, since opening their brokerage, Vanguard has become a pain to deal with. They are understaffed but yet so big that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. This is not a criticism of the actual fund managers. Vanguard now insists on going through the brokerage even for opening positions in their own funds. Some of younger employees working at the brokerage are less than competent and not well-informed about how things actually work at their own company. I still like certain Vanguard funds, including VWINX, but I do not enjoy communicating with customer "service" at Vanguard.
@Ben, if you are in the mood, you might take a look at fido, who now have all manner of funds even cheaper than vanguard (zero cost) and whose c/s is pretty good and rigorously trained
not saying the funds are better than vanguard's best (!)
Hi @ hank @Bobpa wouldn't have to move to Vanguard for the VWINX purchase. I had an indirect account with Vanguard many years ago, but only for the purpose of having a 401k placed there by the company, and there was no brokerage feature. But, all of our primary accounts have always been with Fidelity. The 401k monies have since moved to Fidelity, too. Many years ago (30)?, when one opened an account at Fidelity for mutual funds, if you wanted to also purchase other than Fidelity mutual funds and stocks, a separate brokerage account could be opened; and the fund and brokerage account were internally connected. Today a new Fidelity account, although there may be special conditions for some special account types; comes with the brokerage feature regardless. The brokerage feature applies to taxable, traditional and Roth IRA accounts; and perhaps other.There is no requirement to use the brokerage; but it is one's money path to wherever you want the money to travel. For this thread purpose, VWINX simply becomes another purchase within one's Fidelity account. There is no requirement to have any Fidelity product within the account, with the exception of a core money market fund for parking money from a sell, and awaiting to be placed towards the next purchase; simply an internal transfer station. The process is very smooth internally. @Old_Joe noted a similar process for Schwab. 'Course, we don't have a clue as to @Bobpa and where his account resides. I fully agree, that it would not be worth the effort to attempt to find a match for VWINX.
Thank you to all for taking the time to respond. All accounts are at Schwab, so I am attempting to avoid the transaction fee. I may just make a one time purchase and see if my consultant can have the fee waived.
If your interest is simply consolidation and you're willing to do a little work, you could purchase the shares at Vanguard and then do an in-kind transfer to Schwab. Selling shares of all funds, even TF funds, is free at Schwab.
Traditionally, transfers of shares from mutual fund companies to brokerages has been free. Now that Vanguard has moved to a brokerage model (you can't buy their funds in a standalone mutual fund account), that may have changed. I don't see any account closing or transfer fee in Vanguard's fee disclosure, but you should check first.
Comments
An oddball fund that has superior performance and similarly low volatility (though not quite as low) is FRIFX.
No fund beat VWINX on all four metrics (three lengths of performance periods and volatility). But if I relax this a bit by allowing a bit higher volatility if it is more than outweighed by its superior performance (i.e. better three year sharpe ratio), then many funds pop out. They include funds such as:
VTMFX (a peer of VWINX; virtually identical Sharpe ratio with higher performance and volatility due to its 50/50 mix vs. Wellesley's 40/60 mix)
PRWCX (moving toward more equity and more volatility; 20% better Sharpe ratio in exchange)
VWELX (again, more equity and volatility; virtually identical Sharpe ratio to VWINX)
Several convertibles funds offer a similar increase in equity "feel", commensurate increase in volatility, and improved Sharpe ratio. PACIX may be the most accessible (open, load-waved through some brokerages).
Moving into pure equity, volatility continues to increase. Still, many large cap blend funds combine (relatively) low volatility and high performance to offer comparable risk adjusted return (sharpe ratio). But even the lowest volatility funds in this group are significantly more volatile than VWINX, and their risk-adjusted returns aren't much better. To get significantly risk-adjusted returns here, you have to take on even more risk (i.e. move beyond the low risk equity funds). See, e.g. PRBLX.
Few large cap value funds offer superior risk adjusted returns. Of note are the Yackman funds (YACKX, YAFFX) with volatility not much greater than VWELX.
It's the rare (relatively) low risk large cap growth fund that offers even comparable risk adjusted return. One that stands out here is CSIEX.
As one moves to mid and smaller cap funds, risk tends to go up, and it becomes harder to justify it with better performance if risk is a paramount concern.
fwiw, MFOP cites lower UI (also GO and HR status) to JABAX, my balanced fave (I no longer own, however).
https://www.mutualfundobserver.com/discuss/discussion/50424/interesting-fund-cross-reference-tool-from-vanguard
Tend to agree with the suggestion above to go with the “real deal.” I suspect VWINX isn’t an easy one to duplicate. On the other hand, if, like me, you’re accustomed to working directly with just one or a small handful of houses, I can understand why you might not want to move to VG.
At a glance VWINX appears to be 40/60 fund (heavier on the fixed-income side). One I like at Price that’s
a well run 40/60 fund is TRRIX. But it lags VWINX performance wise (by about 2 percentage points over 10 years). Hard to beat VG’s low ER. That’s often the difference between a very good fund and a great one,
not saying the funds are better than vanguard's best (!)
@Bobpa wouldn't have to move to Vanguard for the VWINX purchase.
I had an indirect account with Vanguard many years ago, but only for the purpose of having a 401k placed there by the company, and there was no brokerage feature.
But, all of our primary accounts have always been with Fidelity. The 401k monies have since moved to Fidelity, too.
Many years ago (30)?, when one opened an account at Fidelity for mutual funds, if you wanted to also purchase other than Fidelity mutual funds and stocks, a separate brokerage account could be opened; and the fund and brokerage account were internally connected.
Today a new Fidelity account, although there may be special conditions for some special account types; comes with the brokerage feature regardless. The brokerage feature applies to taxable, traditional and Roth IRA accounts; and perhaps other.There is no requirement to use the brokerage; but it is one's money path to wherever you want the money to travel.
For this thread purpose, VWINX simply becomes another purchase within one's Fidelity account. There is no requirement to have any Fidelity product within the account, with the exception of a core money market fund for parking money from a sell, and awaiting to be placed towards the next purchase; simply an internal transfer station.
The process is very smooth internally.
@Old_Joe noted a similar process for Schwab.
'Course, we don't have a clue as to @Bobpa and where his account resides.
I fully agree, that it would not be worth the effort to attempt to find a match for VWINX.
Good night,
Catch
Traditionally, transfers of shares from mutual fund companies to brokerages has been free. Now that Vanguard has moved to a brokerage model (you can't buy their funds in a standalone mutual fund account), that may have changed. I don't see any account closing or transfer fee in Vanguard's fee disclosure, but you should check first.
https://personal.vanguard.com/pdf/v414.pdf?2210079054
If you are looking for something little offbeat, look at ETNMX