Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

In this Discussion

Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.

    Support MFO

  • Donate through PayPal

Rollover 403B to new or existing traditional IRA account?

Good Evening,
A recent chit-chat question.
A school teacher will be retiring and she is aware of the costs and investment limitations with her 403b. She has a existing traditional IRA account where the 403b money may travel. The understanding is that the rollover can go to the same vendor, but as a second, separate traditional IRA account.
She doesn't anticipate converting any of this money to a Roth IRA.
Is there a good reason to not just use the existing traditional IRA account for the rollover?
Thank you.
Catch

Comments

  • No. Go to existing. Much simpler.
  • edited April 2019
    Hi Catch - By “vendor” I’m assuming you mean a mutual fund family or other fiduciary like a bank or insurance company. I can’t think of any reason for not combining. However, the vendor might be able to answer that one for friend.

    I do know Price used to try to “keep straight” in their in-house records whether IRA funds I had with them had come from a “rollover” out of a 403B (like your friend) or whether they had been “transferred” in (as from one IRA custodian to another IRA custodian). Their reasoning at the time was that a rollover from 403B had for a number of years the ability to be rolled again back into another employer’s 403B should I return to work again.. Muddle the distinction in the sourcing of the funds and that option becomes impossible.

    Price long ago gave up the ghost on that one - at least as far as my money is concerned. So, in all practicality, I think JoJo is correct that it doesn’t matter.
  • @Catch22- Hello again. Rollover to existing is what was recommended for my wife, and that worked out just fine, with no problems, hitches, or gotchas.

    < sarc > Keep calm, the country's in good hands! < /sarc >
  • edited April 2019
    Old_Joe said:

    < sarc > Keep calm, the country's in good hands! < /sarc >

    While we’re on the topic, be sure to watch the (sarc) “Justice Department” (sarc) “news conference” tomorrow morning on the Mueller report. Only problem - no one except the team running the “news conference” will have seen a copy of what the new conference is about. Ought to lead to some real penetrating questions from the press.

    They say they will let everyone - including Congress - have a peek at the report later in the day. But not until after they’re done giving the “news conference” (and presumably hightailing it out of town). I’m peed-off because I purchased both the print and audible copies of this “ghost” document (and am smart enough to read it). But been nearly a month since I paid the $$ and it still ain’t been delivered. sarc. sarc. sarc.

  • edited April 2019
    @hank @Old_Joe

    As this thread officially has fallen off of the track......

    Perhaps, in the end; the "report" will lay somewhere between:

    Catch-22

    and the Pentagon Papers

    @JoJo @hank
    Thank you for you input. My recommendation was the same; to rollover the 403b to her existing traditional IRA at Fidelity.
  • There may be another reason to keep the money in a separate account. Personally, I don't find it compelling, but many others disagree.

    Money that comes from a plan covered by ERISA get unlimited protection in bankruptcy. (This only protects the money bankruptcy proceedings, not against creditor claims.) Some 403(b) plans are covered by ERISA, others are not.

    Even if you keep protected money in a separate IRA account, you still have to prove where the money came from (i.e. an ERISA plan) and you have be able to prove that you didn't later comingle it by bringing in some other money. So while the title "rollover IRA" helps you keep track of things, that's not the end of the story.

    In addition, many states have laws providing additional protection for IRAs.

    So I don't think keeping the money separate buys you much, but as I wrote, many others feel differently.
  • edited April 2019
    @Catch - Your link to Pentagon Papers doesn’t work.

    Sorry for steering the ship off course with my reference to the “Mueller Report”. Worse, I expect that tomorrow we may learn that said (imaginary) report never really existed. It was merely a figment of the imagination perpetuated on a gullible public by a fake press.

    Hope your friend has a long and prosperous retirement.
  • @Catch22: would beneficiaries be of concern here? Van Guard seems to like one. Tried to
    do three via internet & didn't accomplish it.

    Good luck, Derf
  • @hank

    I usually check links, but didn't tonight. An extra add remained in the link box that opens here, at MFO. Usually the header is overwritten, this time the header remained.
    The link header being, http:// This messed the link coding.

    Hank, I don't know what you may access at Amazon for movies, but this is a must that ties into today's legal battles. The story of the battle and decisions from the Washington Post to release the Pentagon Papers to the public. This link is a multi Google search so that one may dig around to learn a bit more.

    The Post


    @msf What you noted, is of consequence to some folks; I would agree. And the note about ERISA. I don't know about her plan, but I know 2 retired hospital employees and their 403b was not ERISA compliant, or whatever the proper term. Thank you.
  • edited April 2019
    @Derf
    I don't know why Vanguard would have a problem allowing more than 1 beneficiary. We've set primary and secondary beneficiaries "on-line" through our accounts. I've seen primary, secondary and/or co-beneficiary listed as choices at various accounts over the years.

    Beneficiaries/co-beneficiaries would be of the same legal status with a 401k, 403b, 457, traditional or Roth IRA to the best of my knowledge. To the point of superseding a will for purposes of distribution at death. Beneficiary is the first trump card.
    If any know of a variance with the above; please let us know.

    ADD: Derf, here is the Vanguard link explaining beneficiary designation.

    Ok.......you're on your own from here tonight. Early rise next day and pillow time calls.
  • @Catch22, Yes, I’ve watched The Post. It’s an excellent film in many respects. Thanks for mentioning it.
  • @Catch22: Guess I'll have to attempt multiple beneficiary One more time.
    Thanks , Derf
  • edited April 2019
    different ?: how much should we cash out from IRA/401K/pensions plans monthly if we retire at age 62?
  • @johnN

    Please start a new post; as this thread is already too much off track.
    Thank you.

    I personally don't follow what you are asking about with your below statement.

    different ?: how much should we cash out from IRA/401K/pensions plans monthly if we retire at age 62?
  • edited April 2019
    catch22 said:

    @johnN

    Please start a new post; as this thread is already too much off track.
    Thank you.

    I personally don't follow what you are asking about with your below statement.

    different ?: how much should we cash out from IRA/401K/pensions plans monthly if we retire at age 62?

    I agree that question needs to be rephrased by @JohnN. Sounds more like something related to longevity issue and making savings last over a lifetime. Unfortunately, some workers do “cash out” 100% from these plans and spend the money right away or within a few years of retiring. Poor planning - but all too common.

    Somewhat related to Catch’s original question - These workplace plans do not need to be rolled over into an IRA if worker prefers not to. My own personal thinking (based on something I read at the time) was that while in the employee plan your investments are still partially controlled by the employer who administers the plan. But, once in an IRA (“I” for individual), control of the plan shifts completely to that of the the individual. Probably oversimplifies it - but I was more comfortable moving to an IRA and having full control.

    It was simpler back than (90s). There was still a loophole in the 403B Regulations allowing participants to transfer assets to a custodian of choice. So, TRP had received most of those assets (originally with Templeton) while I was still working. They remained a 403B with TRP until I retired and elected to rollover the assets into an IRA. Very simple. A few pages of documents which I signed off on.

    Lots of things to consider, including the comments by @msf above. Gets into questions of investment choices, fees, possible confiscation of assets by creditors under some circumstances - depending on type of plan selected.
    -

  • @MFO Members: Question ? How does a straight forward question about 403B's and IRA's evolve into a discussion of the Mueller Report and the Pentagon Papers ?
    Regards,
    Ted
  • @Ted- For once I have to agree with you.
  • @MFO Members He who is without sin cast the first stone ! "< sarc > Keep calm, the country's in good hands! < /sarc >'
    Regards,
    Ted
  • edited April 2019
    Apologies to all. Sometimes. I tend to go off-track. I hope I haven’t detracted too much from the considerable amount of investment related information @Catch22’s post elicited. Don’t cast blame on Catch. He was merely trying to treat me with courtesy in mentioning the Pentagon Papers while steering the discussion back on track. I accept full responsibility for nearly derailing the train.
  • edited April 2019
    @Ted: Yes, you're right. That comment is out of place in this particular thread. Apologies.

    Add: Please see Ted's "Sears Sues Lampert, Steven Mnuchin, Claiming He Looted Assets And Drove it Into Bankruptcy" thread for a more fitting environment for that comment.

  • edited April 2019
    @hank @old-joe.me too +1
Sign In or Register to comment.